Anyone here think Foles is better than Tannehill?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by darefugee, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I know what the threads about genius. I'm glad you gave us your half a__commentary. Don't be mad because he didn't pull out when you wanted him to, And my statement about foles is true. He was a nobody until six games ago.
     
  2. FINOMINAL

    FINOMINAL Scout Team

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    I disagree that Foles was a nobody six games ago, this is what I posted here on a thread back in August of 2017 that asked “If Tannehill is out for the season whodo you want as a starter?”:

    “Get Nick Foles and you will forget about Chad Pennington. This guy should not be a back up anywhere. In this Miami Dolphins Gase offense, he would be better than Cutler or Colin. And maybe better than Tanny. I’m biased for him, I like him, wanted the Dolphins to draft him in 2012, but he is still a very solid quarterback sitting wasted in Philly.”
     
  3. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    What was he doing up until about six games ago,
    A back up, period. There was more than a handful of teams that needed a starter In 17, and not one of those teams blinked an eye for him. we'll see what happens this year with him. But only a select few here on finheaven think he's The bomb.
     
  4. russianbear

    russianbear FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    i think people need to realize that foles is not the quarterback he was the last stretch of the season and playoffs on another team. his career is evidence of that, and it's what makes this entire thread hogwash.

    if foles was rostered by the dolphins right now, this thread title would be "is x better than foles"

    replace x with any flavor of the week quarterback and you get my drift.
     
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  5. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    It's tough though because Foles has only played in Kelly's offense, which was useless once the league figured it out, and for Jeff Fisher where QB's go to die. You could be right but in a good system with a good staff who knows.
     
  6. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    He played under Andy Reid In his system. Fishers not great, but let's not pretend that he hasn't had good coaching.
     
  7. russianbear

    russianbear FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    and therein exactly lies my point

    You could replace "Kelly's" and "Jeff Fisher" for "Lazor's" and "Philbin" and make the same point.

    With a good system and good staff we will hopefully continue to see Tannehill excel. Unfortunately I believe there are a number of QBs who get doomed by their surrounding cast because of how much everything has to be working well together to bring a team to the ultimate success (Superbowl).
     
  8. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    when you can basically run nothing but predetermined and primary throws throughout the entire postseason and super bowl run it's not the qb you should be applauding it's the play caller

    Pederson was the top grade in that building...I give foles credit for executing by and large though something jay cutler didn't do

    although pederson chased points in the first half when he had a lead which is something you pretty much never get away with vs the patriots...but he did
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 1:13 PM
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  9. psfign

    psfign A True Fan

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    Which is why arguing with these people is useless. Dont think theyve ever played the game themselves.
     
  10. psfign

    psfign A True Fan

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    lol actually laughed at that last line. Nice.
     
  11. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

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    Hey, I answered your question. No need to get all salty if you ask an easily-answered question.
     
  12. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    Yes I've actually played the game! And coached it many years.

    So be careful with the "these people" crap.

    Only on Finheaven would we find RT believers this strong. When all along every sign points to his very limited ceiling. No teams in the league fear him. That is for certain.
     
  13. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    Foles has a winning record even through his myriad of failures. Which means he's actually done a few things right.

    Meanwhile RT and his crappy coaching and horseshit lines and lack of good playcalling and horrible offensive coordinators and lack of consistent running game and pathetic receivers and no tight end and average special teams and piss poor field conditions and lack of enough ranch dressing on his pre game salad is at 37-40 for his career.
     
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  14. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    No worries man. Just was throwing out some comedy but it was construed as salty.

    I had temporarily forgotten the completion record which was of course achieved through an inordinate amount of checkdowns and dumpoffs. But either way well done RT!
     
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  15. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

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    Fair enough. And yes, it's a silly record. So are a lot of individual stats in the most team-oriented sport.
     
  16. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    So when you coached football, did you evaluate your QBs with their W/L records? And what type of drills would you suggest for a QB looking to improve his W/L record?
     
  17. russianbear

    russianbear FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    So after that long post you hoist up 22-17 over 37-40 like it’s so some sort of almighty decision maker? Completely disregarding the emphasis put on the surrounding cast even though that would directly impact W/L?

    Got it.
     
  18. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    Whether or not Foles is better than Tannehill is a question that hasn't been answered yet. Did the light come on for him or was it just a situation of being a good fit for the scheme? He had some pretty good QB friendly coaches in Philly. He was certainly not very effective under Jeff Fisher. He was very good under Chip Kelly but everyone said at the time he was a system QB.

    Sort of the same deal with Case Keenum in Minnesota. Can he do it with a different coach and scheme?

    Whether or not they can be successful over the long term with another team is a big question mark.

    We haven't seen the best of Tannehill over a full season with a decent coach. We should this year....FINALLY. People can bag on him all they want but I loved what I saw over the second half of the season in 2016. It appeared the light finally came on and he answered a few more questions about his game.

    I wonder the same type of things about Kirk Cousins. The light didn't come on for him until year 4 under Jay Gruden. No one knows how he would do in Denver, Cleveland or Jacksonville.
     
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  19. psfign

    psfign A True Fan

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    sure sure lol
     
  20. superphin

    superphin close your eyes, see that? no your eyes are closed Finheaven VIP

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    Billick coached at the highest level and won a SuperBowl, even he has been known to be wrong.

    "Brian Billick attempted to allay the concerns of unimpressed fans by self-assuredly proclaiming: "Trust me, Baltimore, I know quarterbacks."

    Spoiler, he didn't.
     
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  21. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I call BS. No coach would blame a single player for a team's failures, except Joe Philbin........ wait, is that you Joe?
     
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  22. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    You guys crack me up. If you have any doubts about Ryan Tannehill you must not have done anything in your life. Just Bizarre. Only on Finheaven....
     
  23. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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  24. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Am I the only one who thinks that guy, who's been a mostly dormant member for a long time until recently, just may be an embedded mult of someone we've known pretty well from the recent past ?

    Consider
    (x) Serial posting on Tannehill threads - challenging most every declared positive - reminiscent of OCD level cognitive dissonance
    (x) In this particular thread, makes approx 1 out of every 10 posts
    (x) Declares self to be "Smarter than the average fan"
    (x) Dismissive of opposing opinions
    (x) Presents own opinion as "fact," alludes to dissenting ones as essentially uninformed or emotional
    (x) Seems more invested in rooting against Tannehill's success - even if being proven right is to the detriment of the team
     
  25. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    There is a huge difference between expressing doubt and claiming you have the answer on Tannehill. Even the most ardent supporters have to acknowledge that there is doubt about Tannehill becoming a top QB until he has actually done it. I have consistently claimed that I believed that he would be a very good QB with better coaching and better personnel (especially the OL).

    Some anti-Tannehill posters claimed that HE was the problem with the OL. Some claimed that our OL was no worse than average and Tannehill's lack of pocket presence was making a decent OL look bad. These claims persisted even after numerous posts that evaluated the plays that resulted in the sacks showed that the sacks were the result of the poor play of the OL. Also, third party, unbiased websites came to the same conclusion through tape review and numerical analysis (e.g. time to throw, time to pressure, time to sack, etc). Those websites were also dismissed. Finally, the team made their feelings obvious by cutting a large number of members of the OL from 2013-2016. None of the OL members that were cut for poor performance have showed improvements on any other team. In fact, most aren't playing anywhere. Tape review, numerical analysis, team reaction, and rest of the league's actions all point to the same conclusion. The Dolphins managed to field an incredibly crappy OL for 3 consecutive years (2013-2015).

    Finally, in 2016,the coaching improved and the OL stopped giving up 45 or more sacks per season. The result was a 10-6 season and a trip to the playoffs for a team that had a first time HC, first time DC, with new offensive and defensive systems.

    During the run in 2016, the anti-Tannehill crowd was eerily silent. Those claiming that Tannehill could not play consistently well and could not improve his YPA and could not throw the long ball and could not lead a team to the playoffs were nowhere to be found. Unfortunately, the returned in force when Tannehill was forced to miss the 2017 season. The sad part is that in addition to claiming he cannot do what he already demonstrated in 2016, they added "concerns" about his knee to the tired nonsense that gets spewed.

    Be skeptical that Tannehill can lead a team to the playoffs consistently or to the SB, but don't tell me you know it can't be done or it has somehow been proven that it can't be done.
     
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  26. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think it is likely that there are many posters that don't understand the game and desperately want the team to have only one problem to solve.
     
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  27. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    I'm glad you brought up the sack issue. The sack rate didn't really change last year. Ryan attempted 389 passes and was sacked 29 times. That is just above his career average of a sack every 12.4 pass attempts. There was no big change. Then Matt Moore comes in and passes 87 times with 1 sack. Cutler comes in this year and gets sacked 1 time every 21 pass attempts behind the same line.

    Yes the line could be better but you will never convince me that Ryan doesn't take unnecessary sacks.
     
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  28. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Well Moore fortunately didnt have to play behind Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner... After they got cut, Tannehill got sacked once every 19.41 attempts... Who would've thunk, bad OL correlates to sack rate...
     
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  29. TannDaMan17

    TannDaMan17 Well-Known Member

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    People will hate on Tannehill until he wins in the playoffs, bottom line and no excuses at all (even injury). Few people care about how bad of a coach Queasy was and how much he held back RT and the team, that's irrelevant in most people's eyes. When Tannehill wins playoff games then the idiots who act like he can't play will be exposed and will probably act like they have supported him all along, luckily for them Calais Campbell f***** his knee up, but he should FINALLY be ready to go soon enough...
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 3:14 PM
  30. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    First of all, every QB takes unnecessary sacks. Tannehill doesn't take them at a rate that is more than normal.

    Look at how the sacks were distributed in 2016 by game:

    5, 0, 1, 5, 6, 0, 1, 1, 1, 4, 2, 2, 1

    The 6 sack game was against Tenn. After that game, Thomas and Turner were cut. You can claim the sack rate didn't change, but if you dig a bit deeper, you see a huge difference immediately following two roster changes on the OL. It cannot get any clearer than that.

    Cincy had 33 sacks in 2016. 5 came against the Dolphins. That is 2.6 times their average. Similarly, Tenn had 40 sacks on the season. 6 against Miami, 2.6 times their average. Seattle 42 with 5 against Miami.
     
  31. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Foles played below average until the Minnesota and New England game, Doug Pederson tailoring the offense to his game makes him the real MVP (consistently getting players open on single read option is no easy feat).
     
  32. lurking

    lurking FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    you can't convince agenda driven posters
     
  33. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    No conspiracy theory here. I'm just the same guy I have been since joining. I mostly just read here for information but for some reason the Foles v RT debate sparked my interest.

    I have tried to use facts and stats not opinion as fact. At least as much as possible. I do not singlehandedly blame RT for his 37-40 record however I do know the QB influences W-L record far more than any other position. RT can only be a victim of circumstances for so long. He is now entering his 7th year as a pro. Case in point we signed arguably the best DT in the league yet our W-L record has not been any different as a whole. But if we had Brees or Brady or Rodgers for RTs 77 games what would our record be?

    Some of you don't like hearing RT is not the franchise guy we all hoped. Yes that's my opinion after 77 starts and a season lost to ACL. Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm firmly in the camp that if he's not part of the solution he's just part of the problem.
     
  34. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    Just answering the question if I had never played the game. Anyone who hasn't played would likely be even more enamored with RT in my opinion. It would be inversely proportional.
     
  35. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    The Foles supporting cast has not been stellar his whole career. I also put up stats of QBR, TD pct, INT pct, and sack rate. But the reality is QBs are paid to win. They influence W-L more than any position.
     
  36. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Why?
     
  37. Third Eye

    Third Eye Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    Nice loaded question.

    Do you think a 5th grade football teams QB influences W-L as much as an NFL QB? How about high school? NAIA? D-1 NCAA?

    At no level of football does the QB impact W-L more than the NFL. It's a QB league.

    What drills? How about pocket movement drills, 3-5-7 drop throws, 7 step rollouts, throw routes (digs, outs, slants etc), two knee and one knee passes, feet parallel drills, circle toss, down the line drill 100-200 yards, find the open receiver drill (good one for RT back when he was 17-19 years old as now he still locks on), throw progression drill.

    These are just for starters. Of course you already knew this. RT spent two years plus in college in the WR room. He's not a classically trained QB. Just an athlete figuring it out.
     
  38. AZStryker

    AZStryker Pro Bowler

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    I find it funny how bipolar your posts are. Your latest posts are calm and objective almost like you’re being contrite after being called on the carpet. Then there’s these that claim that every team thinks the same way you do. “No team fears Ryan Tannehill. That’s for certain.” It must be exhausting to go from that high pedestal and down to the common folk then right back again.
     
  39. 39wildman

    39wildman A True Fan

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    bottom line foles got what thill17 dream of doing as qb. superbowl ring and mvp foles played great games when it count the most.
    without superbowl win foles is 3 rd pick in 2012 did nt get benfit like thill17 have been given in Miami. to stay on same team. I think fole is better passer than thill17. it all depend on how long thill17 stay w dolphins. if thill17 goes to any other team. he will be is same boat as fole was. on bench teaching young qb to start in future.
     
  40. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Another falsehood repeated by the Tannehaters.

    Why can Tannehill be a victim of circumstances for only so long?
     

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