Arizona vs Green Bay

[hoops]

so in your mind, the ONE missed call of many on the night, is what determined the outcome of the game.

you don't have to get all bent out shape man. it's just deliberation. I happen to disagree with your stance, some others agree.
damn you need a budweiser or something.

sure there's missed calls...there's missed calls every game...but i wasn't referring to any other call...i was referring to that specific one which is why that was the only call i referenced...

and that SPECIFIC non call resulted in the packers going home for the season... true or not true???

that's my only point

i don't care about zona or the packers...

 

[RealDriscoll]

Sure you should belive the Cardinals defense won them the game b/c they did. Wasn't it a Karlos Dansby fumble recovery for a touchdown that won it for them in overtime?

 

[Bumpus]

Why is this thread in the DRAFT FORUM?

 

[ZachThomas76]

Anyway, watching Finley in this game and Keller against Cincy, I dont know what else Parcells needs to see to get with the times at TE. Maybe his defense getting sliced apart all year might have been his first hint.

 

[Breed]

SO I guess GB is all rodgers when they win and all a piss poor oline when they loose. the packers defense is what kept them from winning the game? You could factor in the arizona defense as well, they didn't exactly play lights out.

Any time your offense puts up 45 points, you should win the game. Rodgers had a great game, I'm not even sure how this can be disputed, however, Warner had what was quite possibly the greatest postseason game ever for a QB.

so by your logic the packers set a single season pts scoring record with absolutely no credit due to therr piss poor oline.

Their OL isn't good, but it's not the reason they lost. Their so called good defense lost the game by not even slowing down the Cardinals offense (passing or rushing).

the fact that you would take rogers over brady is enough to make me pay very little more attention to the rest of your posts.

The fact that you don't want Rodgers because we have Henne speaks volumes about your football knowledge.

As for Brady, we are talking about recent history, correct? Going back to the '07 Superbowl, Brady hasn't been the Brady of old.

we could debate all day and come up with hundreds of factors to put rodgers number one. but at the end of the day he's still a guy who got sacked 50 times, and hasn't won any playoff games.
how you can put him ahead of any of those other qb's is beyond me.

He's only played one postseason game, anybody who knows anything about statistics knows the larger the sample size (given the same condition), the more accurate the sample size.

warner is one of the most prolific passers in POSTSEASON history, you know the season that matters!

You're acting as if Rodgers played poorly against the Cardinals. Rodgers had an incredible game. Most quarterbacks would kill to have a postseason game like the one Rodgers had.

peyton
drew brees
kurt warner
romo
favre
rivers
brady

Regular season numbers since '08:

Touchdown/Turnover (passing touchdowns + rushing touchdowns/interceptions + lost fumbles):
Rodgers: 2.48 (67/27)
Rivers: 2.33 (63/27)
Manning: 2.18 (61/28)
Brees: 2 (70/35)
Brady: 1.93 (29/15)
Favre: 1.70 (56/33)
McNabb: 1.69 (49/29)
Romo: 1.61 (53/33)
Warner: 1.37 (56/41)
Roethlisberger: 1.27 (47/37)

Yards per passing play (passing yards - sack yards/passing attempts + sacks):
Rivers: 7.84
Brees: 7.81
Brady: 7.42
Manning: 7.25
Romo: 7.22
Warner: 6.88
Rodgers: 6.84
McNabb: 6.58
Roethlisberger: 6.53
Favre: 6.46

Completion %:
Manning: 67.85
Brees: 67.54
Favre: 67.01
Warner: 66.61
Brady: 65.66
Rivers: 65.25
Rodgers: 64.16
Roethlisberger: 63.39
Romo: 62.3
McNabb: 60.36

YPC:
Rodgers: 4.59
McNabb: 3.78
Roethlisberger: 2.47
Rivers: 2.35
Romo: 2.32
Favre: 1.67
Brady: 1.52
Brees: .73
Manning: .21
Warner: .21

Drop backs per sack:
Manning: 47.92
Brady: 36.31
Brees: 35.82
Warner: 23.22
Rivers: 20.28
Romo: 19.52
McNabb: 18.48
Favre: 17.45
Rodgers: 13.82
Roethlisberger: 11.16

If we're talking about career, there's no question, the likes of Warner, Manning, Brady, and Favre are clearly ahead of Rodgers. However, Rodgers stacks up very well statistically against some of the premiere quarterbacks in the NFL since his starting debut in 2008.

 

[2413fanphins]

Any time your offense puts up 45 points, you should win the game. Rodgers had a great game, I'm not even sure how this can be disputed, however, Warner had what was quite possibly the greatest postseason game ever for a QB.



Their OL isn't good, but it's not the reason they lost. Their so called good defense lost the game by not even slowing down the Cardinals offense (passing or rushing).



The fact that you don't want Rodgers because we have Henne speaks volumes about your football knowledge.

As for Brady, we are talking about recent history, correct? Going back to the '07 Superbowl, Brady hasn't been the Brady of old.



He's only played one postseason game, anybody who knows anything about statistics knows the larger the sample size (given the same condition), the more accurate the sample size.



You're acting as if Rodgers played poorly against the Cardinals. Rodgers had an incredible game. Most quarterbacks would kill to have a postseason game like the one Rodgers had.



Regular season numbers since '08:

Touchdown/Turnover (passing touchdowns + rushing touchdowns/interceptions + lost fumbles):
Rodgers: 2.48 (67/27)
Rivers: 2.33 (63/27)
Manning: 2.18 (61/28)
Brees: 2 (70/35)
Brady: 1.93 (29/15)
Favre: 1.70 (56/33)
McNabb: 1.69 (49/29)
Romo: 1.61 (53/33)
Warner: 1.37 (56/41)
Roethlisberger: 1.27 (47/37)

Yards per passing play (passing yards - sack yards/passing attempts + sacks):
Rivers: 7.84
Brees: 7.81
Brady: 7.42
Manning: 7.25
Romo: 7.22
Warner: 6.88
Rodgers: 6.84
McNabb: 6.58
Roethlisberger: 6.53
Favre: 6.46

Completion %:
Warner: 69.31
Manning: 67.85
Brees: 67.54
Favre: 67.01
Brady: 65.66
Rivers: 65.25
Rodgers: 64.16
Roethlisberger: 63.39
Romo: 62.3
McNabb: 60.36

YPC:
Rodgers: 4.59
McNabb: 3.78
Roethlisberger: 2.47
Rivers: 2.35
Romo: 2.32
Favre: 1.67
Brady: 1.52
Brees: .73
Manning: .21
Warner: .21

Drop backs per sack:
Manning: 47.92
Brady: 36.31
Brees: 35.82
Warner: 23.22
Rivers: 20.28
Romo: 19.52
McNabb: 18.48
Favre: 17.45
Rodgers: 13.82
Roethlisberger: 11.16

If we're talking about career, there's no question, the likes of Warner, Manning, Brady, and Favre are clearly ahead of Rodgers. However, Rodgers stacks up very well statistically against some of the premiere quarterbacks in the NFL since his starting debut in 2008.

this is the last time I am going to break it down for you. one bold quoted paragraph at a time. You really put a lot of work into dissecting my post.
anyway...

yes rodgers had a good game... remind who disputed that. you were questioning how it can be disputed... I am questioning when it was disputed.

as you put it, there so called good defense played poorly. so is it a fluke that throughout a 16 game season they were ranked 5th against the pass? kurt warner is a god. better than aaron rodgers. one of my original points. he has been both discounted for being old and a few other reasons. he's better than rodgers, period.

the fact that I don't want rodgers because we have henne speaks nothing more about my football knowledge than the fact that I hate meatballs in my spaghetti. I dont' want rodgers because we have henne. Henne was a high draft pick. henne is coming along fine IMO... these among other reasons is why I am content with henne over rodgers.

brady is better than rodgers. period. since the 07 superbowl there have been circumstances for his numbers falling. anyone who watches the game knows this. I still rate brady higher than rodgers.

sample sizes aside, because obviously the more postseason games you play the more chance you have of winning one... a simple point was made to reference other qb's postseason success as a small barmoter of why I have them ahead of rodgers. not sure why you look so deep into a shallow glass.

your stats while well organized and documented on many other internet sites do little if not next to nothing to prove anything. he stacks up well against other qb's. you said it yourself.
not in my top ten qb's of the league though.. but if it makes you happy I will change my stance to he stacks up nicely when compared to other qb's in the league.

 

[Breed]

this is the last time I am going to break it down for you. one bold quoted paragraph at a time. You really put a lot of work into dissecting my post.
anyway...

yes rodgers had a good game... remind who disputed that. you were questioning how it can be disputed... I am questioning when it was disputed..

I can see the loss being on rodgers. he turned it over leading to arizona td.
much like the loss would have been on rackers if Arizona lost.

I can also see the pad stats comment. his receivers are great at yards after catch.

he gets sacked way too many times, and to date hasn't won the big game. 0-2 against a favre led vikes team, and no playoff wins. don't see where the GB boards are that out of line...

the refs didn't loose the game for aaron rodgers. he could learn to throw the ball away under pressure instead of taking so many sacks. sometimes punting the ball isn't a bad idea. it's certainly a better alternative to turning it over.

You certainly seem to be disputing whether or not Rodgers had a good game. In regulation, Rodgers scored 5 touchdowns and turned the ball over once, leading the Packers to 45 points on offense. That should've been more than enough to win just about any game.

as you put it, there so called good defense played poorly. so is it a fluke that throughout a 16 game season they were ranked 5th against the pass?

The Packers played 4 games (the Vikings, Cowboys and Steelers) against good quarerbacks, and their secondary got torched in all but one of those games. Their defense really good against weaker competition, but was absolutely terrible against the good passing games. So yes, their defense was incredibly overrated.

kurt warner is a god. better than aaron rodgers. one of my original points. he has been both discounted for being old and a few other reasons. he's better than rodgers, period.

Career wise, yes, he's definitely better than Rodgers, because he's been doing it longer. However, Rodgers has clearly been better since he began starting in 2008.

Touchdown/Turnover (passing touchdowns + rushing touchdowns/interceptions + lost fumbles):
Rodgers: 2.48 (67/27)
Warner: 1.37 (56/41)

Yards per passing play (passing yards - sack yards/passing attempts + sacks):
Warner: 6.88
Rodgers: 6.84

Completion %:
Warner: 66.61
Rodgers: 64.16

YPC:
Rodgers: 4.59
Warner: .21

Drop backs per sack:
Warner: 23.22
Rodgers: 13.82

I can also see the pad stats comment. his receivers are great at yards after catch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Cardinal's receivers really good after the catch?

the fact that I don't want rodgers because we have henne speaks nothing more about my football knowledge than the fact that I hate meatballs in my spaghetti. I dont' want rodgers because we have henne. Henne was a high draft pick. henne is coming along fine IMO... these among other reasons is why I am content with henne over rodgers.

I've made several arguments for Henne on FH, so you aren't going to find many Henne supporters that like him more than I do. Having said that, Rodgers has much better athleticism, does a much better job at using his eyes as a weapon (looking off his receivers etc.) and is far more accurate, not to mention he's far more accomplished than Henne. You're right, who wants a QB that's as talented and accomplished as Rodgers?

brady is better than rodgers. period. since the 07 superbowl there have been circumstances for his numbers falling.

Hence the reason I would currently take Rodgers over Brady, he's not the QB he once was. Maybe he returns to form, maybe not, he's still a hell of a QB, I'd just happen to take Rodgers over him.

anyone who watches the game knows this. I still rate brady higher than rodgers.

That is clearly hearsay....

I don't need stats to tell me that Rodgers looked better than Brady did this year, although they would certainly support that claim.

Touchdown/Turnover (passing touchdowns + rushing touchdowns/interceptions + lost fumbles):
Rodgers: 2.48 (67/27)
Brady: 1.93 (29/15)

Yards per passing play (passing yards - sack yards/passing attempts + sacks):
Brady: 7.42
Rodgers: 6.84

Completion %:
Brady: 65.66
Rodgers: 64.16

YPC:
Rodgers: 4.59
Brady: 1.52

Drop backs per sack:
Brady: 36.31
Rodgers: 13.82

If I were to put the quarterbacks into tiers, I'd have them listed like the following:
Tier 1: Drew Brees and Peyton Manning (IMO, Brees is the better QB right now, granted Manning has clearly had the better career)

Tier 2: Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, Tom Brady. Maybe Tom Brady rebounds next year, who knows.

Tier 3: Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Ben Roethlisberger, Donovan McNabb, Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub.

sample sizes aside, because obviously the more postseason games you play the more chance you have of winning one... a simple point was made to reference other qb's postseason success as a small barmoter of why I have them ahead of rodgers. not sure why you look so deep into a shallow glass.

Outside of Kurt Warner, how many of those quarterbacks have led their offense to 45 points in a postseason game. I know it's only 1 game, but it's not like you can red flag it and say, "that one game was pretty bad, it looks like he can't win the big game".

your stats while well organized and documented on many other internet sites do little if not next to nothing to prove anything. he stacks up well against other qb's. you said it yourself.
not in my top ten qb's of the league though.. but if it makes you happy I will change my stance to he stacks up nicely when compared to other qb's in the league.

I'm not aware of any sites that take break down the yards per passing play by taking into account the sacks and sack yardage lost, which is Rodgers biggest knock. Even so, Rodgers compares favorably to most of the quarterbacks that I listed.

I can understand someone ranking Rodgers just outside the top 5, but it's mind boggling to me how anyone can say Rodgers isn't a top 10 NFL QB.

I'm curious, who are these 10 quarterbacks that are better than Aaron Rodgers? Also, if you were building a franchise for the long-term, who would be your top 5 choices at QB?

 

[Breed]

"Let me tell you something - that dude is scary," Arizona free safety Antrel Rolle(notes) said of Rodgers. "We have a great defense, and we were up on him and ready to pounce, and he found ways to tear us apart.

"I don't ever want to face him again in my life. I am dead serious. I'll face Drew Brees any day of the week before I face him again."


Cardinals cornerback Michael Adams causes an Aaron Rodgers fumble in overtime. Arizona's Karlos Dansby recovered the fumble and ran it in for a touchdown. Arizona won 51-45.
(Matt York/AP Photo)
Added Pro Bowl strong safety Adrian Wilson(notes): "Hey, nobody ever said the guy was a bad player. But to have him actually do what he did to us in the second half was unbelievable. He was on fire. The whole half. The guy was just amazing."

The Cardinals' star wideout, Larry Fitzgerald(notes), was equally impressed. "Aaron Rodgers threw for about, what, 700 yards today?" he asked, laughing. "You've got to tip your hat to the Packers. Those guys - let's just say we wouldn't want to play them again. And he is a special, special, special talent

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-rodgersplayoffdebut011010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I also seem to recall Donald Driver and Charles Woodson saying Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL when he has time to thow. But what do they know?

 

[2413fanphins]

"Let me tell you something - that dude is scary," Arizona free safety Antrel Rolle(notes) said of Rodgers. "We have a great defense, and we were up on him and ready to pounce, and he found ways to tear us apart.

"I don't ever want to face him again in my life. I am dead serious. I'll face Drew Brees any day of the week before I face him again."


Cardinals cornerback Michael Adams causes an Aaron Rodgers fumble in overtime. Arizona's Karlos Dansby recovered the fumble and ran it in for a touchdown. Arizona won 51-45.
(Matt York/AP Photo)
Added Pro Bowl strong safety Adrian Wilson(notes): "Hey, nobody ever said the guy was a bad player. But to have him actually do what he did to us in the second half was unbelievable. He was on fire. The whole half. The guy was just amazing."

The Cardinals' star wideout, Larry Fitzgerald(notes), was equally impressed. "Aaron Rodgers threw for about, what, 700 yards today?" he asked, laughing. "You've got to tip your hat to the Packers. Those guys - let's just say we wouldn't want to play them again. And he is a special, special, special talent

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-rodgersplayoffdebut011010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I also seem to recall Donald Driver and Charles Woodson saying Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL when he has time to thow. But what do they know?[/quo

guess it's settled than. rodgers is the greatest.

funny we can't compare body of work when it's arod against warner... yet it's totally acceptable to do so when comparing him to henne.

If all you insist on doing is twisting my words to support your argument we will get nowhere.
I said I can understand the GB forums saying the loss was rodgers. He fumbled that ball, leading to an arizona td.
again, I can understand their statement. I don't necessarily agree with them. I guess that means, in your eyes, that I think arod played poorly and had a bad game. this logic is quite confusing to me.

rodgers is way more accurate than henne... really define way more accurate. by my account arod throws at a 64% completion rate while henne hovers around 60%. 4 balls out of 100 and he's way more accurate.
far more accomplished than henne... how so. playoff victories? superbowls?
again, I think arod is probably better than henne, but far more accomplished, I'm not sure how you can say that.


I said I was done going back and forth with you and I am, you dissect my posts like a science experiment, from what I can tell without even reading them, only to completely misunderstand them and than follow up with a bunch of info on your man crush of aaron rodgers.

so who here on these forums has drew brees rated below aaron rodgers....just antrelle rolle... I thought so.

when your done breaking all that down, I will probably find myself reading it. but it will be followed by a head shake, and a click of the mouse to something relevant.

 

[2413fanphins]

sure there's missed calls...there's missed calls every game...but i wasn't referring to any other call...i was referring to that specific one which is why that was the only call i referenced...

and that SPECIFIC non call resulted in the packers going home for the season... true or not true???

that's my only point

i don't care about zona or the packers...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...ers_facemask-116330033&prov=capress&type=lgns

doesnt' do much to clarify other than it sounds like rodgers was indifferent to it.
evidently they thought it was inadvertant facemask, in which case the infraction was eliminated before the 08 season.

its a short read. but I just came across it, so thought I'd share it.

 

[Breed]

guess it's settled than. rodgers is the greatest.

so who here on these forums has drew brees rated below aaron rodgers....just antrelle rolle... I thought so.

He's obviously not the greatest, but he is in that 2nd tier of really good quarterbacks. While it's probably split on people that think he's in the top 5, he's definitely top 10, and closer to 5 (I have him as the 4th best NFL QB) than 10.

funny we can't compare body of work when it's arod against warner... yet it's totally acceptable to do so when comparing him to henne.

Warner is an 11 year starter, Rodgers is a 2 year starter and Henne is a 1 year starter. You figure it out....

If all you insist on doing is twisting my words to support your argument we will get nowhere.
I said I can understand the GB forums saying the loss was rodgers. He fumbled that ball, leading to an arizona td.
again, I can understand their statement. I don't necessarily agree with them. I guess that means, in your eyes, that I think arod played poorly and had a bad game. this logic is quite confusing to me.

You may not have said he had a bad game, but you certainly insinuated it.

As for the GB forums getting on Rodgers, that's only a very small percentage of the posters. Most of the posters I mentioned are Viking/Favre trolls. Most GB fans know what they have in Rodgers.

rodgers is way more accurate than henne... really define way more accurate. by my account arod throws at a 64% completion rate while henne hovers around 60%. 4 balls out of 100 and he's way more accurate.

I've never been one to say Henne has poor accuracy, as a matter of fact, I've always thought he had good accuracy for a young starter. Having said that, Rodgers clearly has better accuracy. I don't care if you go by game film or stats, anybody that watches football would tell you Rodgers has much better accuracy. As for saying 4 balls out of 100 is not big deal, that's almost like saying a .320 hitter (assuming both players have the same number of extra basehits, walks and strike outs) isn't that much better than a .280 hitter. Or a more accurate example: A .640 SLG isn't that much better than a .600 SLG. It may not be a night and day difference, but it is noticeably better.

far more accomplished than henne... how so. playoff victories? superbowls?
again, I think arod is probably better than henne, but far more accomplished, I'm not sure how you can say that.

For starters Rodgers is the first player in NFL history to throw for more than 4,000 yards in each of his first two years starting. The Packers also set a franchise record in '09 for most points scored in a season with an average rushing attack.

Career numbers
Passing Yards
Rodgers: 8,801 (7.7 YPA)
Henne: 2,945 (6.4 YPA)

Completions/attempts
Rodgers: 726/1,136 (63.9)
Henne: 281/463 (60.7)

Rushing Yards
Rodgers: 570 (4.6 YPC)
Henne: 32 (2 YPC)

Touchdowns/Turnovers
Rodgers: 68/31
Henne: 13/14

Yeah, I'd say Rodgers is far more accomplished than Henne.

I said I was done going back and forth with you and I am, you dissect my posts like a science experiment, from what I can tell without even reading them, only to completely misunderstand them and than follow up with a bunch of info on your man crush of aaron rodgers.

when your done breaking all that down, I will probably find myself reading it. but it will be followed by a head shake, and a click of the mouse to something relevant.

If someone were to mention Brees as being a top 5-10 NFL QB, I would probably say something to that as well, as Brees is, IMO, the best QB in the NFL right now. That's not to say he's had a better career than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but he is a better QB right now. I guess I have a mancrush on really good quarterbacks.

 

[2413fanphins]

shaking head, and clicking mouse.