Arm strength is NOT how far you can throw it

[Blake the great]

He's bitching about people cherry picking stats to support their arguments and then comes back with a cherry picked stat to support his. He hasn't figured out people are just ****ing with him because he isn't even a goddamn Miami fan and is only here to stir the pot.

I see. I love how he breaks down the difference between velocity vs distance to try and educate us on something so elementary that we all have a clear understanding of. Yes Tua doesnt have great velocity like other QB's but we've seen QB like Montana, Brady, and Brees have tremendous success without having great velocity on throws. So im not sure what else he is trying to say.

 

[Bob512]

This thread is going well......

OP, you are trying way too hard at this. Time for a nap......

 

[tay0365]

So.... why use that video as some sort of evidence?

Probably because that is pure arm strength getting that ball to the receiver.

 

[NY8123]

I see. I love how he breaks down the difference between velocity vs distance to try and educate us on something so elementary that we all have a clear understanding of. Yes Tua doesnt have great velocity like other QB's but we've seen QB like Montana, Brady, and Brees have tremendous success without having great velocity on throws. So im not sure what else he is trying to say.

Here is the top of the list for the past few decades of college QB in terms of ball velocity. The ones in bold are QBs with marginal to good success in the NFL, I could also cut and paste many many more but I decided to stop here because well.........arm "velocity" is not the soul indicator of NFL QB success.

Josh Allen Wyoming 62

Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech, Bills (TE) - 60
Bryan Bennet, SE Louisiana, CFL- 60
Pat Mahomes, Texas Tech, Chiefs- 60
Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma, Browns 60

Jacob Eason, Washington- 59
Jake Luton, Oregon State- 59
Steven Montez, Colorado- 59
Davis Webb, California, Jets- 59
Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State, free agent– 59
Colin Kaepernick, Nevada, free agent- 59
Kirk Cousins, Michigan State, Vikings- 59
Zac Dysert, Miami (OH), free agent- 59
Tyler Bray, Tennessee, Bears- 59
Stephen Morris, Miami, free agent- 59
Paxton Lynch, Memphis, Seahawks- 59

Jared Goff, California, Rams - 58
Ryan Mallett, Arkansas, free agent- 58
Austin Davis, Southern Mississippi, free agent- 58

 

[dan the fin]

Uh, what?

Tua was running and throwing at his pro-day which was like a week after the combine.

Nice try.

Tua's exit velocity is the same as Watson. Oh and higher then Bree's higher then Young and way higher then Pennington.

Case closed. Does Tua have a cannon? No. He has an average arm strength for the NFL. What he has shown is elite accuracy in the short passing (both college and NFL), and elite accuracy on deep passes in college and has show in limited opportunities to complete deep passes at a high rate.

It is all going to come down to deep passing with Tua. Miami's line was brutal (worst in 20 years bad) and never could consistently allow deep pass plays to develop. If given 5 or so more good deep chance a game and Tua and he maintains the completion % downfield it will dramatically change the game. Last season no team respected Miami to be able to allow deep routes, safeties where always up. That creates two other problems, first the intermediate throws become more crowded, and second less space on short passes for guys to create YAC.

Now with all that said please GTF out and go talk about Tua on the Bills board. They will slop up all your crap. Your a Bill's fan that 90% of your posts are to start crap about Tua.

 

[The Beatles]

I see. I love how he breaks down the difference between velocity vs distance to try and educate us on something so elementary that we all have a clear understanding of. Yes Tua doesnt have great velocity like other QB's but we've seen QB like Montana, Brady, and Brees have tremendous success without having great velocity on throws. So im not sure what else he is trying to say.

Brady has fantastic velocity...

 

[IHATETHEJETS]

Uh, what?

Tua was running and throwing at his pro-day which was like a week after the combine.

Nice try.

Isn't the Combine in late February to early March. I believe in 2020 the workouts for the QB's in that Combine were from February 24 - March 1? Just wondering, the last I knew the Combine was always in late February/early March, and this happened in April. Tua had a major injury in November 2019, what do you expect from him?

 

[The Beatles]

Here is the top of the list for the past few decades of college QB in terms of ball velocity. The ones in bold are QBs with marginal to good success in the NFL, I could also cut and paste many many more but I decided to stop here because well.........arm "velocity" is not the soul indicator of NFL QB success.

Josh Allen Wyoming 62

Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech, Bills (TE) - 60
Bryan Bennet, SE Louisiana, CFL- 60
Pat Mahomes, Texas Tech, Chiefs- 60
Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma, Browns 60

Jacob Eason, Washington- 59
Jake Luton, Oregon State- 59
Steven Montez, Colorado- 59
Davis Webb, California, Jets- 59
Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State, free agent– 59
Colin Kaepernick, Nevada, free agent- 59
Kirk Cousins, Michigan State, Vikings- 59
Zac Dysert, Miami (OH), free agent- 59
Tyler Bray, Tennessee, Bears- 59
Stephen Morris, Miami, free agent- 59
Paxton Lynch, Memphis, Seahawks- 59

Jared Goff, California, Rams - 58
Ryan Mallett, Arkansas, free agent- 58
Austin Davis, Southern Mississippi, free agent- 58

All of those are higher than Tua's though ... which is estimated to be in the mid to high 40's.

 

[The Beatles]

Isn't the Combine in late February to early March. I believe in 2020 the workouts for the QB's in that Combine were from February 24 - March 1? Just wondering, the last I knew the Combine was always in late February/early March, and this happened in April. Tua had a major injury in November 2019, what do you expect from him?

So the combine ended first week of March. Tua's pro day was first week of April. And he had been throwing and running for weeks before that (to practice for that Pro Day). He could have thrown at the combine. I dont blame him for not, but he could have.

 

[phishfan4life]

Someone gets it!

PS, they do measure velocity at the combine.

Josh Allen - 62 mph
Baker Mayfield - 59 mph
Pat Mahomes - 55 mph
Jalen Hurts - 54 mph
Lamar Jackson - 49 mph
Deshaun Watson - 45 mph
Tua - Decided not to test (I'll let you hypothesize as to why)

It couldn't possibly be because he was still rehabbing/recovering from major hip surgery could it? And franchise QB DeShaun Watson looks a little weak armed according to these numbers. 17mph slower than Josh Allen? Watson ain't completing that pass either, and a lot of people here were pining for him. Bottom line is, this one play (where Tua was late on the throw...the TE was 3 yards deep in the endzone while Allen's guy was at the goal line) does not prove our QB lacks the velocity to make 20 yard throws. If you wanna argue Tua's velocity is less than other QB's on 60 yard throws, then I would agree with you. But, 60 yard throws are a rarity, so not too concerning to me.

 

[The Beatles]

He's bitching about people cherry picking stats to support their arguments and then comes back with a cherry picked stat to support his. He hasn't figured out people are just ****ing with him because he isn't even a goddamn Miami fan and is only here to stir the pot.

I've been a member of this forum for a long time, am respectul, donate ... I thought we could have a good conversation. I see thats impossible.

I'm out.

 

[NY8123]

All of those are higher than Tua's though ... which is estimated to be in the mid to high 40's.

Yes I said this was the TOP of the list lol, reading comprehension isn't your stronger suit I see and the bolded statement above is absolutely flat out wrong. If you had bothered to look at what I linked you'd already know what Tua's ball velocity is.

 

[NY8123]

For anyone who careers to read up on this topic and understand why this entire thread logic is a failed troll attempt, please read this link:

Ball Velocity Numbers Are Lying To You | The Draft Network

I'd love to be done talking about Combine numbers.Did Kyler Murray inflate his height, as was so ast...

thedraftnetwork.com

 

[DolfanISS]

I agree! You are not wrong here. What is ridiculous is all the “Tua can’t throw more than 10 yards” people. I see that not only here and on Twitter but from real analysts. They should be embarrassed because he’s done that in the pros multiple times. A little effort and I’m sure someone could easily find it. What is equally ridiculous is this notion that all Tyreek Hill does is catch 80 yard bombs. Nothing else. This means Tua and and 10 yard max and Hill with his 80 yard average aren’t going to be productive. Pretty stupid when put that way right? Hill only caught 9 passes that were over 20 yards in the air in 2021, he can do more than 80 yard bombs.

Back to arm strength, Tua is not going to be beating coverage with his arm like Allen does but let’s not act like 30 other QB’s will. Tua may be bottom half in arm strength but Josh Allen is rare. I believe if protected and given the chance to set up and throw Tua can do just fine at making all the throws he needs to. I concede he’s not gonna flick his wrist and launch it 70 yards down field but not many are. If we looking for Josh Allen level arm strength and development we’re going to be looking for a while. Allen may be the most physically gifted QB in the league, not sure how realistic it is to top that.

 

[IHATETHEJETS]

What we all got is you came here to troll Miami fans on our forum ti show that Allen has a stronger arm than Tua. You can say all day long that you wish you had different examples from other guys but that is not the case. You saw this tweet from a different Bills fan and chose to troll Miami with it.

Trolling is not aloud here. Take it somewhere else. Mods are we going to alow Bills fan to just come here and cause trouble?

I have to say the original post said he wishes it wasn't Allen. I also have to say, that Allen's ball got there a lot quicker, however, as someone else pointed out, this was Tua's rookie season in a pre-season game. He wasn't use to the speed of the NFL.

I don't think the OP is trolling, just his belief that Tua doesn't have great velocity. He is allowed his opinion, but I wish he wouldn't continue to bring it up in a Dolphins Forum.