at this point.. | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

at this point..

cyoung said:
Ponder absolutely has the arm to go deep. He didn't do it this year as much because he was nursing a hurt throwing elbow, which was hurt running the ball, not throwing. He has every bit of arm needed. The only complaint I have ever had of Ponder is that he sometimes puts too much touch on passes. Arm strength is not a problem at all.
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No, he doesn't have the arm strength for the deep passes with enough zip on them to be successful in the NFL. That's a point that is pretty much accepted by every scout that has graded him so far.
 
footsteps_falco said:
after watching the senior bowl, im prepared to trade down and take christian ponder. to all of you who were saying hes gonna be the real deal a few weeks ago... my hats off to you, i think you're all right. its a shame we wont be able to get gabbert but i think ponder and stanzi are both going to be solid nfl QB's. kaepernick is still a mystery to me, but the senior bowl def didnt hurt his case. locker is looking worse and worse to me by the day.
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Exactly what I want to do.
 
He's got enough arm strength. More importantly, he showed he can stand tall and step up in the pocket and distribute the ball accurately. He showed he knows when to stick with a hot WR and he showed that he know when to be smart and throw it away. He also showed mobility.

I think Ponder proved more to me in terms of his pocket passing translating to the NFL over a guy like Kaepernick keeping plays alive. I'd feel more comfortable taking Ponder before Kaepernick.

DREAM MOCK FOR ME RIGHT NOW......

1.) Leonard Hankerson WR UM - via trade down to the late first and picking up a late second.
2.) Christian Ponder QB FSU - pick acquired from trading down in round 1.
3.) Derrick Locke RB UK - speed, vision, moves, tough enough to go between tackles despite size.
4.) Bilal Powell RB Louisville - north south power runner to comliment Locke (bye bye to R&R).
5.) Colin McCarthy ILB Miami - should be able to replace Crowder.
6.) Charles Clay H-Back/TE Tulsa - can rotate in with Polite and backup Fasano.
7.) Jeremy Kerley WR/RS TCU - speed WR and returner we need.
7.) Nathan Enderle QB Idaho - skills at least worth developing.

Free Agency

Ryan Kalil C
Owen Daniels TE
Paul Soliai NT
Tony McDaniel NT/DE
Will Allen CB
 
Ponder is nothing special, a lot of you need to understand that the South had a much superior O-Line to the North.

The North quarterbacks were under constant pressure.

Even Dan Marino failed if the pressure was to much.
 
BlueFin said:
Ponder is nothing special, a lot of you need to understand that the South had a much superior O-Line to the North.

The North quarterbacks were under constant pressure.

Even Dan Marino failed if the pressure was to much.
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The North's OL came into the game more heralded. They had Solder and Costanzo and Moffitt. C'mon man, let's give credit where credit is due. Ponder got pressured at least 3 times that I can recall. Once he scrambled for a 1st down. Once he side stepped, ducked and got tackled for like a 2 yard gain and once he threw the ball away. He was on target all day except for that 1st deep ball that he said slipped out of his hand. He took advantage of a hot WR in Hankerson and he looked head-n-shoulders above the other QBs.

I'm not saying Ponder should be taken at 15 but he earned his props. The guy who is getting over hyped now is Kaepernick - not Ponder.
 
BTW, speaking of pressure from the South DL, that Baylor NT Phil Taylor may be someone we have to consider at 15 if somehow we can't trade out. That dude is a beast. He has off field issues (kicked outta Penn State I think) but damn!!!
 
cyoung said:
Forget it....you're right. I realized reading your posts in other threads that your main concern is making sure nobody wants to draft Ponder. I mean, who would want to draft the guy that looked the most pro ready today, had the best stats today, etc. You're gonna find some reason, regardless of why he isn't right for us. Between now and the draft, his stock is going to soar. He will fly up the boards. I hope we get him bc he will be a steal in the mid 2nd - 3rd. I really don't think he'll last that long though.
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1... you did nothing to answer the question of his health.
2... I'd stab myself in the eye with a spoon if this FO drafted a guy based on how he looked from a statistical standpoint in the senior bowl, much less a qb, who is only seeing a 4 man rush, with no blitz, and cover 1 or cover 3 from the secondary...
3.. I vehemently disagree with you that ponders stock WILL SOAR..... It may go up a bit, or even down a bit... but a bit... nothing drastic IMO.
 
2413fanphins said:
1... you did nothing to answer the question of his health.
2... I'd stab myself in the eye with a spoon if this FO drafted a guy based on how he looked from a statistical standpoint in the senior bowl, much less a qb, who is only seeing a 4 man rush, with no blitz, and cover 1 or cover 3 from the secondary...
3.. I vehemently disagree with you that ponders stock WILL SOAR..... It may go up a bit, or even down a bit... but a bit... nothing drastic IMO.
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Dude, our FO drafted Pat f'n White!!!! I'd be thrilled to see them draft a QB like Ponder who can actually throw from the pocket. Of course he has to clear his medicals but if so......
 
MisiDressing said:
Dude, our FO drafted Pat f'n White!!!! I'd be thrilled to see them draft a QB like Ponder who can actually throw from the pocket. Of course he has to clear his medicals but if so......
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I dont' see a big upgrade. I see a guy who is injury prone. I see a guy who struggled with the deep ball, and may continue to struggle with the deep throw ala penny. I see a guy who can scramble, which I do like. I see a guy who hits on ins and outs and curl routes, like the qb we already have now. I see a qb who at least yesterday struggled in the red zone on back to back throws.

I'm just don't have a woody for this guy like some others do... and I'm not exactly in the minority. to each his own.

my above post that you quoted, is exactly how I feel. I don't see how anybody thinks his stock is going to skyrocket...
 
X-Pacolypse said:
That elbow must still be sore because I saw some passes fluttering big time in today's game.
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He just had surgery on it 5-6 weeks ago. Im honestly surprised he was playing at all, not to mention starting and playing better then every other QB.
 
2413fanphins said:
I dont' see a big upgrade. I see a guy who is injury prone. I see a guy who struggled with the deep ball, and may continue to struggle with the deep throw ala penny. I see a guy who can scramble, which I do like. I see a guy who hits on ins and outs and curl routes, like the qb we already have now. I see a qb who at least yesterday struggled in the red zone on back to back throws.

I'm just don't have a woody for this guy like some others do... and I'm not exactly in the minority. to each his own.

my above post that you quoted, is exactly how I feel. I don't see how anybody thinks his stock is going to skyrocket...
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He suffers 2 unrelated injuries being protected by these clowns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AqnsjEPLIA
and suddenly he's injury prone.

A seperated shoulder is an injury that someone can return from. It is not career ending, as we saw. A swollen bursa sac is an injury that someone can return from. Matt Shaub had swelling in his knee from that and continued playing.
Admittedly, Ponder didnt show the same zip he did a mere year ago. But im willing to give him time to recover(and time is the only thing we happen to have now...and possibly until a new CBA is reached). To immediately write off someone who is looking better then the rest of his class just because of recoverable injuries would be foolish.

If he doesnt show improvement before the draft, so be it. But right now, from a mental standpoint, hes clearly figured it out more then this pretty weak class. The only thing he has to show is more arm strength, and if he does he bumps into first round talent.

edit: you really seem to be hanging on those 2 throws he didnt make. Personally, i prefer the strike to Hankerson in the redzone: outside throw away from defender at chest level, a spot that only the wideout could(easily) make. As well, i enjoyed the 25 yard toss that hit his receiver dead on between 2 defenders, who then hopped into the end zone(called the play of the game).
Then again, we could go with a prospect like Jake Locker, who was leaving his wideouts to so many crushing hits that it could be said he held personal grudges against them.
 
Spesh said:
He suffers 2 unrelated injuries being protected by these clowns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AqnsjEPLIA
and suddenly he's injury prone.

A seperated shoulder is an injury that someone can return from. It is not career ending, as we saw. A swollen bursa sac is an injury that someone can return from. Matt Shaub had swelling in his knee from that and continued playing.
Admittedly, Ponder didnt show the same zip he did a mere year ago. my point in your words. But im willing to give him time how much?to recover(and time is the only thing we happen to have now...and possibly until a new CBA is reached). To immediately write off someone who is looking better then the rest of his class just because of recoverable injuries would be foolish. what exactly do you base this comment on... a few passes from the senior bowl?

If he doesnt show improvement before the draft, so be it. But right now, from a mental standpoint, hes clearly figured it out more then this pretty weak class. This is just a truly homerific statement to say the least. There are probably 5 guys or so ahead of ponder on everyones board and yet I'm to believe they are all idiots cuz ponder is lightyears ahead mentally than those other qb's? The only thing he has to show is more arm strength, and if he does he bumps into first round talent. And if he doesn't show more arm strength?? than he's what, a second-third round qb, with no arm strength? If so, than just how useful will he be?

edit: you really seem to be hanging on those 2 throws he didnt make. Personally, i prefer the strike to Hankerson in the redzone: outside throw away from defender at chest level, a spot that only the wideout could(easily) make. As well, i enjoyed the 25 yard toss that hit his receiver dead on between 2 defenders, who then hopped into the end zone(called the play of the game).
Then again, we could go with a prospect like Jake Locker, who was leaving his wideouts to so many crushing hits that it could be said he held personal grudges against them.
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I do hang on to those throws he didn't make. Because unlike you I wasn't blown away by the 10-15 yard routes that he looked real crisp on. albeit with no blitzes, and predetermined coverages. I don't think any qb out there should struggle with those throws. It's the deep ball that was SEVERLY underthrown that the WR made a great comeback on... the strike you refer to hankerson in the endzone would have been a pic by any DB in the league not named sean smith.
and the other pass to the pylon, needed to come out sooner and have a little more touch and it would have been a td..
we already have a qb who wastes redzone oppurtunities... we all said send out carpenter... cuz it was as if we were watching henne anyway. two chances to score a td, two bad passes and a subsequent field goal.
 
MisiDressing said:
The North's OL came into the game more heralded. They had Solder and Costanzo and Moffitt. C'mon man, let's give credit where credit is due. Ponder got pressured at least 3 times that I can recall. Once he scrambled for a 1st down. Once he side stepped, ducked and got tackled for like a 2 yard gain and once he threw the ball away. He was on target all day except for that 1st deep ball that he said slipped out of his hand. He took advantage of a hot WR in Hankerson and he looked head-n-shoulders above the other QBs.

I'm not saying Ponder should be taken at 15 but he earned his props. The guy who is getting over hyped now is Kaepernick - not Ponder.
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Dude, any NFL personnel man will tel you the actual game is basically meaningless, its the week of practices that they base assessments on. Pat White was MVP of the Senior Bowl...how did that work out?

Kaepernick was the star QB in the practices and has elite tools.
 
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