Best and Worst Drafts by Division, Conference, and Overall | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Best and Worst Drafts by Division, Conference, and Overall

bigvince75 said:
Regarding the pass rush, how many stud pass rushers have been drafted that New England had a chance to get? By my count, only Lamarr Woodley and Clay Matthews stand out. People always go back to the 2007 draft and compalin about not picking Woodley, but they forget that OLB was a position of strenght at the time given that Vrabel was still in his prime and they just signed Afailius. Passing on Matthews looks bad, but the team still got quality players from that draft and as I mentioned already, there was no guarantee Matthews would turn out the way he did.
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My point is it was a need but they continue to over look it just like the Dolphins passing on a real QB over the last few years and yet they get ripped for it and NE gets a pass. But we didn't select a 6th round HOF QB, so I guess that's all it takes!

My arguement is when it became a position of need not before, that kind of makes little sense!
 
Anyways bigvince75 your changing the direction the conversation was in. NE gets praised for trading back for value when there are excellent players available to fill the few holes they have to really give their team a greater chance to win more Superbowls while Brady is still in his prime. If anything I think a team in NE's situation should be trying to move up and get premium talent to help them out.

I would love to be the division winner year in and year out but I'd be pretty ticked off if we failed to attempt to fill the few holes preventing us from winning at Home in the first round of the playoffs the last few years! I don't see why this year would really be any different, teams like Baltimore, Pittsburgh and the Jets will gladly play NE in the 1st round knowing NE's defense can't make plays when it really counts which is the complete opposite to when they were winning Superbowls!
 
NE lost in the first round for a variety of reasons. The 09 Baltimore loss was just a complete team collapse where all of the team's flaws that year came to a head. No player played well in that loss. Against the Jets the the offense and defense both had too many breakdowns. The defense actually did a good job against the Jets in the first half but then rookie mistakes started piling up; namely on the Cotchery catch and run where both Spikes and McCourty took bad angles. The offense scored 3 points through nearly 3 quarters, and I felt the oline and Brady's struggles were the biggest reason they lost. That and the Jets happen to be a very good team; it's not like NE lost to the 7-9 Seahawks.

as far as neglecting need; New England drafted an outside LB in Cunningham last year. His stats didn't show it, but he actually did make plenty of contributions to the defense the past year. TBC, Mike Wright and Gerrard Warren can thank him for several of their sacks, since he was able to put pressure on QBs and force them out of the pocket. He also did a nice job against the run and got pressure on the QB at critical points, like at the end of the Colts game. He would have had at least 1 sack against the Jets in the MNF game but Sanchez got away with a facemask. He didn't make the type of impact a 2nd round pick should, but he was able to make the transition from DE to OLB despite missing part of TC and all of preseason with an injury and missing the last few games as well. He needs to take the next step in 2011 and the team is very high on him.

as it stands right now there are 3 players on the front 7 who need to improve: Cunningham, Spikes and Brace. I hated the Brace pick when it was made and he was a non-factor his rookie year, but when he was healthy in 2010 and started he actually did a nice job against the run. Spikes is a good 2 down LB right now but he needs to improve his coverage and stay off chatroulette. Cunningham needs to stay healthy and continue to improve, and if these players continue to develop, not only will the team's past 2 drafts look even better, but the defense will improve significantly. The reason the team didn't add to the front 7 this past draft was because of all the young players and BB's belief that they can continue to reach their potential.
 
And I guarantee Pittsburgh wouldn't want anything to do with NE in the playoffs.
 
bigvince75 said:
NE lost in the first round for a variety of reasons. The 09 Baltimore loss was just a complete team collapse where all of the team's flaws that year came to a head. No player played well in that loss. Against the Jets the the offense and defense both had too many breakdowns. The defense actually did a good job against the Jets in the first half but then rookie mistakes started piling up; namely on the Cotchery catch and run where both Spikes and McCourty took bad angles. The offense scored 3 points through nearly 3 quarters, and I felt the oline and Brady's struggles were the biggest reason they lost. That and the Jets happen to be a very good team; it's not like NE lost to the 7-9 Seahawks.

as far as neglecting need; New England drafted an outside LB in Cunningham last year. His stats didn't show it, but he actually did make plenty of contributions to the defense the past year. TBC, Mike Wright and Gerrard Warren can thank him for several of their sacks, since he was able to put pressure on QBs and force them out of the pocket. He also did a nice job against the run and got pressure on the QB at critical points, like at the end of the Colts game. He would have had at least 1 sack against the Jets in the MNF game but Sanchez got away with a facemask. He didn't make the type of impact a 2nd round pick should, but he was able to make the transition from DE to OLB despite missing part of TC and all of preseason with an injury and missing the last few games as well. He needs to take the next step in 2011 and the team is very high on him.

as it stands right now there are 3 players on the front 7 who need to improve: Cunningham, Spikes and Brace. I hated the Brace pick when it was made and he was a non-factor his rookie year, but when he was healthy in 2010 and started he actually did a nice job against the run. Spikes is a good 2 down LB right now but he needs to improve his coverage and stay off chatroulette. Cunningham needs to stay healthy and continue to improve, and if these players continue to develop, not only will the team's past 2 drafts look even better, but the defense will improve significantly. The reason the team didn't add to the front 7 this past draft was because of all the young players and BB's belief that they can continue to reach their potential.
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Drafting 2 OLB's (1 in the 3rd and 1 in the 2nd the next year) out of whats seems like 35 picks in 3 years doesn't really seem like trying to fill a need. We have Wake and rookie K.Misi but some of us fans know we still need more pass rush help. Pittsburgh drafts OLB's and DE's all the time to develope long term but they do it with studs in place already. So I don't hold too much water on BB counting on these young guys to develope when he still needs more players that can contribute in that position.

The variety of reasons can be summed up in big plays on the defense, it is the biggest difference between when you won championships and now that you haven't. The defense has not been able to do it when it matters in the playoffs especially when the offense struggles. Brady/Manning/Brees and soon to be added M.Ryan all have the talent and "good enough" defenses to get their teams to the playoffs on a regular basis but none of them have a defense to get them another championship, IMHO. Now GB has an offense equal to all of them and a defense that's built to win multiple championships and the scary thought is they won their first with more injuries then almost every team in the NFL!

Even this past draft I can't believe you guys again passed on Prince. You have been drafting multiple CB's for the last few years missing badly until McCourty. Then you get Prince falling in your laps and pass, I will be shocked if you don't regret passing on Prince in a couple years.

But I guess if your happy waiting for the defense to hopefully develope then you better pray it happens sooner then later. Brady isn't getting younger and every year that pases waiting is a wasted year. The Jets have already made themselves contenders and IF we ever find a QB NE won't be having their way in the regular season anymore either. Luckily for you the Dolphins have the same attitude about QB as you guys do with pass rushers, lol!!!
 
The Jets don't have an elite pass-rusher on their roster, yet they're a contender with an elite defense. Pass-rush is only part of a great defense; you need everyone in each unit to be on the same page in order to be truly effective. That's how the Jets are so effective and that's why NE was able to win with its defense during the SB years. Neither team has or had "that guy" to get after the QB. Letting young players develop and gel as a unit goes a long way, and given how well the defense improved over the course of the 2nd half of the season, in spite of mounting injuries nonetheless, I don't have a problem with that approach. The Patriots defense isn't about having one single player be the premier pass-rusher, its about everyone playing disciplined and being in the right place.

you mention the Steelers and praise them for drafting OLBs, but they keep doing the same thing you say NE is doing and that's ignoring a need. They've had a weakness at the CB and oline/OT position for years now and every year with the exception of Pouncey they've ignored it in favor of a dlineman or OLB. Just this past year they could have taken Aaron Williams or Ras-I Dowling but took a 3-4 DE when they already have Keisel and Hood. The way Patriots fans feel about the OLB position is the same way Steelers fans feel about their team's CB position.

Look at what happened in the SB, Pitt had arguably the league's best pass-rushing duo and a top run defense and they got lit up because their secondary fell apart and couldn't stop anyone. It's not like having some beastly pass rusher will automatically make a defense elite or completely cover up a secondary's weakness, you still need to have talent at other positions. Look at Detroit for another example.

As far as drafting CB's and not taking Prince, last year everyone was shocked that NE passed on Kyle Wilson in favor of Devin McCourty, a guy who everyone thought would be a "Special Teams" player.
 
NE was tied for 14th best in the league with 36 sacks. This was with Ty Warren being out all season, Mike Wright (the team's leading sacker) being out for a good 7 weeks, a rookie OLB starting (who missed several games and battled injuries all year) and 2 guys playing in the 3-4 for the first time in their careers. Obviously it needs to improve, and if the players don't develop then it was a mistake to not continue to add to the front 7. However, given all the negative factors that went into play NE still finished in the middle of the road in sacks and was the 7th best scoring defense all year. There's plentty of reason for optimism.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that the team feels it has the talent on the roster to build a successful defense. There's plenty of young talent on that end, whether or not they can put it all together is the question.
 
New England might be smarter then anyone gives them credit for, many people are quick to point out that every year given the abundance of draft picks that New England seems to amass they always push them out to the next year, but I think they have a plan and are playing their pieces as masterfully as a Grandmaster in a chess tournament.

Tom Brady isn't getting any younger and given that NFL Franchise QB is the hardest and most important position to fill for a franchise to have a decade of success they are positioning themselves to make that transition nicely. With a project QB already in the fold in Mallett they might have the answer or a nice trading piece in a puzzle that realistically in the next year or two could involve a huge trade up to land a number 1 QB prospect to replace Brady long term.

I think Bill pushes the 2 first rounders out to the 2013 draft which puts Brady at 35 and arguably replaceable in the 2014 or 2015 season. Bill makes a trade to position New England so they can take a top prospect QB in 2013 who then has one or two years before they move on from Tom. It's like the Brett/Aaron deal all over again if the cards play out right.

Think about it.
 
bigvince75 said:
The Jets don't have an elite pass-rusher on their roster, yet they're a contender with an elite defense. Pass-rush is only part of a great defense; you need everyone in each unit to be on the same page in order to be truly effective. That's how the Jets are so effective and that's why NE was able to win with its defense during the SB years. Neither team has or had "that guy" to get after the QB. Letting young players develop and gel as a unit goes a long way, and given how well the defense improved over the course of the 2nd half of the season, in spite of mounting injuries nonetheless, I don't have a problem with that approach. The Patriots defense isn't about having one single player be the premier pass-rusher, its about everyone playing disciplined and being in the right place.

you mention the Steelers and praise them for drafting OLBs, but they keep doing the same thing you say NE is doing and that's ignoring a need. They've had a weakness at the CB and oline/OT position for years now and every year with the exception of Pouncey they've ignored it in favor of a dlineman or OLB. Just this past year they could have taken Aaron Williams or Ras-I Dowling but took a 3-4 DE when they already have Keisel and Hood. The way Patriots fans feel about the OLB position is the same way Steelers fans feel about their team's CB position.

Look at what happened in the SB, Pitt had arguably the league's best pass-rushing duo and a top run defense and they got lit up because their secondary fell apart and couldn't stop anyone. It's not like having some beastly pass rusher will automatically make a defense elite or completely cover up a secondary's weakness, you still need to have talent at other positions. Look at Detroit for another example.

As far as drafting CB's and not taking Prince, last year everyone was shocked that NE passed on Kyle Wilson in favor of Devin McCourty, a guy who everyone thought would be a "Special Teams" player.
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The NYJ are a pretty damn good run stuffing team and they have the top CB in football. Their LB's get pressure from their blitz packages. They also run the snot out of the ball and have a decent passing game to boot, in other words their built to win in the playoffs - which they have done the last 2 years while their young QB is getting more expereince.

Pittsburgh won the Superbowl with their lack of Oline! So that kind of gets them off the hook don't you think, you haven't won the Superbowl ever since your defense became old and now their weaknesses get exposed in the 1st round of the playoffs! And Pittsburgh took a Centre in the 1st round in the 2010 draft and I think that helped them out so they have made an effort to fix that Oline.

CB's for Pittsburgh don't play the role they would on say the NYJ's because they get so much pressure from Woodley and Harrison alone. Not that they couldn't use an upgrade, their defense is built around stopping the run, pass rushers and Troy's ability to roam the centre of the field.

Your defense doesn't get masked by having an elite pass rusher, your problem on defense is the lack of pass rushing and the fact you can't stop anyone in the run game - in the playoffs!!! I don't care about regular season stats, their more then mis-leading but losing in the 1st round isn't. Pitts had Pouncy out and Troy playing at 50%, if you don't think that had a lot to do with the outcome then I need to stop this conversation. Then take in account GB has a great offense and a great defense with a great pass rush -hmmmm exactly what I'm talking about. And the pass rush was huge when their top CB gets hurt and doesn't play the entire 2nd half...remember.

Detriots getting there but they still have many many holes to fill and they do not have T.Brady and your offense.

I'm also talking about your team, the one with a future HOF at QB that won 3 Superbowls when your defense was excellent at making plays all over the place and in key situations. Your offense doesn't need a lot of help your defensive weaknesses that have plagued your team in the 1st round needs to addressed in order to win more Superbowls, again IMHO. If these Cunningham makes a big jump this year where does his help come from?
 
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