Best RB in the AFCE

[FinfanInBuffalo]

No, Brown has proven he can't handle pressure. When the games are meaningful he doesn't show up, when you are done he has good games.

week 1: had 30 yds rushing on 2.0 YPC.

week 2: had 70 rushig yds

week 3: 90 yds on 3.5 YPC

week 4: 49 yds

through 4 games averaged under 60 yds a game on 3.5 YPC, dolphins 1-3.

week 5: 39 yds on 2.3 YPC

Week 6: 127 yds(his only good game in the 1-6 start against our awful run D)

week 7: 59 yds on 3.9 YPC

After 7 weeks he had 464 yds on 3.8 YPC and Miami was 1-6 and finished. Then he got it going but it was too late.




So using his 1st half totals somehow shows Brown was better? brown was awful the meaningful first 7 games, he got it going after you were done just like in 2005.

You "conveniently" leave out his receiving yards and the game he crushed the Bears. You do realize that receiving yards count right? Do I need to explain the rules of football to you? The most pressure packed game of the season was against the Bears and it was his best.

These are the facts for the early games that you claimed prove Jones is better than Brown:

Brown's total for the first 8 games - 873 yards from scrimmage and 4 TDs.
Jones' total for the first 8 games - 704 yards from scrimmage and 3 TDs.

Where was Jones for the first 8 weeks of the season?

You're the one who tried to make the case that Jones was better early in the season. When are you going to learn that I check the facts. You cannot make stuff up and not get challenged.

We'll have to just agree to disagree on this one.

 

[nyjunc]

They are running backs not WRs, I judge them based on what they do on the ground.

You're the one who tried to make the case that Jones was better early in the season. As usual, you were talking out of your butt. When are you going to learn that I check the facts. You cannot make stuff up and not get challenged. You have been owned, again.

as usual? owened again? i have tore through your weak arguments. you keep trying to make his #s look better than they are. 3.8 YPC during the 1-6 start wasn't enough to back up my argument? The man starts out slow just like his team has.

The facts are in 2 years Jones has over 2500 yds rushing playing in meaningful games and he has 15 TDs compard to brown who has around 2,000 yds and 9 TDs. Which is better? The only area brown leads is .1 in YPC- that's nothing. brown can't stay on the field, he only comes through when the team is out of it while Jones CARRIED maybe the worst SB QB of all time to a SB and tried to will his team to victory in that game.

You have nothing but dolphin homer views. i notcied you ignored the saban, Daunte, Chamber,... comparisons. How come? I also noticed you ignored the Indy D in the playoffs? how come? and you ignored the poor play of Ronnie early in the year using total yds which is a copout.

 

[muscle979]

They are running backs not WRs, I judge them based on what they do on the ground.



as usual? owened again? i have tore through your weak arguments. you keep trying to make his #s look better than they are. 3.8 YPC during the 1-6 start wasn't enough to back up my argument? The man starts out slow just like his team has.

The facts are in 2 years Jones has over 2500 yds rushing playing in meaningful games and he has 15 TDs compard to brown who has around 2,000 yds and 9 TDs. Which is better? The only area brown leads is .1 in YPC- that's nothing. brown can't stay on the field, he only comes through when the team is out of it while Jones CARRIED maybe the worst SB QB of all time to a SB and tried to will his team to victory in that game.

You have nothing but dolphin homer views. i notcied you ignored the saban, Daunte, Chamber,... comparisons. How come? I also noticed you ignored the Indy D in the playoffs? how come? and you ignored the poor play of Ronnie early in the year using total yds which is a copout.

This is comparable to how you use your "meaninful games" argument as a copout. A slow start absolutely does not take away from his overall numbers and performance. A higher YPC is better, period. You have resorted to trying to use the poor coaching and team effort against Ronnie Brown. The easy way out so to speak. You act like it was Ronnie Brown who sucked and caused the Dolphins to be 1-6. Nothing is further from the truth. He had some good early games where Mike Mularkey decided to stop using him in the 2nd half. Poor coaching but I guess that's Ronnie Brown's fault. Jones is good but now with a good offensive coach in Miami, Brown is going to be better.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

They are running backs not WRs, I judge them based on what they do on the ground.

You might want to ask the NFL to make RBs inelligible receivers, otherwise your argument is stupid.

as usual? owened again? i have tore through your weak arguments. you keep trying to make his #s look better than they are. 3.8 YPC during the 1-6 start wasn't enough to back up my argument? The man starts out slow just like his team has.

I merely recorded the stats. He had 873 yards from scrimmage vs. 704 and MORE TDs that Jones. What is so hard to understand about that?

BTW, if you weren't so busy making up ridiculous arguments you would have realized that Jones averaged 3.73 YPC during the first 8 games. Too funny. Apparently Jones starts slower and is carried by his team....

The facts are in 2 years Jones has over 2500 yds rushing playing in meaningful games and he has 15 TDs compard to brown who has around 2,000 yds and 9 TDs. Which is better? The only area brown leads is .1 in YPC- that's nothing.

The only reason that Jones has more yards and TDs is because he got more opportunities. Blame coaching, not the player. The facts show that when Brown gets the rock he produces.

brown can't stay on the field, he only comes through when the team is out of it while Jones CARRIED maybe the worst SB QB of all time to a SB and tried to will his team to victory in that game.

How many TDs did Jones score in the SB? Looks to me like he didn't show up for the big game.....

You have nothing but dolphin homer views. i notcied you ignored the saban, Daunte, Chamber,... comparisons. How come? I also noticed you ignored the Indy D in the playoffs? how come? and you ignored the poor play of Ronnie early in the year using total yds which is a copout.

He played against 3 poor defenses in the playoffs. Period. What do Saban, Daunte, and Chambers have to do with the fact that Brown is a better RB than Jones?

Total yards is a cop out? WTF? His skills as a receiver is one of the reasons he is a better RB than Jones.

Speed - equal
Power - Brown
Blocking - Brown
Receiving - Brown

 

[nyjunc]

You might want to ask the NFL to make RBs inelligible receivers, otherwise your argument is stupid.

RBs are judged on running the ball not receiving otherwise a guy like Ronnie harmon would be considered great.

Miami is usually playing from behind so they throw alot and they dump it off alot. Sammie Morris put up good receiving #s too and he put up good running #s in his limited role- so you think he's as good as ronnie?

I merely recorded the stats. He had 873 yards from scrimmage vs. 704 and MORE TDs that Jones. What is so hard to understand about that?

Jones is not great out of the backfield but in 7 years he has averaged 31 recs a year and that includes injury plagued years early on while Ronnie has averaged 32.5 per year. if you just take Jones' Chi years he has averaged 39 recs a year.

BTW, if you weren't so busy making up ridiculous arguments you would have realized that Jones averaged 3.73 YPC during the first 8 games. Too funny. Apparently Jones starts slower and is carried by his team....

Their D gave up a total of 7 pts the 1st 2 weeks, they didn't need him early but they sure did late and that's when he came through. Miami NEEDED Ronnie early and he was a no show, they didn't need him late which is when he played well.

The only reason that Jones has more yards and TDs is because he got more opportunities. Blame coaching, not the player. The facts show that when Brown gets the rock he produces.

Blame durability too, Jones had another back who had 157 carries while Morris had 92. if Ronnie could stay on the field he'd get more carries and if you weren't behind all the time you could also run the ball more.

How many TDs did Jones score in the SB? Looks to me like he didn't show up for the big game.....

15 carries for 112 yds(7.5 YPC) but he didnt' show up. he also put them in position to take a 14-6 lead by getting the ball inside the 5 but he didn't show up:rolleyes2 meanwhile Ronnie rushes for 30 yds on 15 carries against Pitt but gets 2 Tds totaling 7 yds and he showd up?

He played against 3 poor defenses in the playoffs. Period. What do Saban, Daunte, and Chambers have to do with the fact that Brown is a better RB than Jones?

you are ignoring the fact that Indy's D played great in postseason. reg season #s were meaningless at that point.

Saban, Dante, Chambers, etc... have alot to do w/ this discussion b/c thsoe are guys dolphin fans have said were great and better than their peers much like you are doing w/ Brown and Jones even though the evidence is against you.

Total yards is a cop out? WTF? His skills as a receiver is one of the reasons he is a better RB than Jones.

You want to say he is a better receiver? ok but Jones is the better RUNNING BACK. RBs are judged on running the football. if it's based mroe on receiving then I guess leon Washington is the best Rb on either team. leon averaged almost 11 yds per rec compared to 8 for Ronnie, Leon averaged .1 more YPC running the ball and leon had just 1 less TD. Leon vs. Ronnie sounds like Ronnie vs. Jones except Jones had 2 more rush Tds instead of 1 more.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

RBs are judged on running the ball not receiving otherwise a guy like Ronnie harmon would be considered great.



You want to say he is a better receiver? ok but Jones is the better RUNNING BACK. RBs are judged on running the football. if it's based mroe on receiving then I guess leon Washington is the best Rb on either team. leon averaged almost 11 yds per rec compared to 8 for Ronnie, Leon averaged .1 more YPC running the ball and leon had just 1 less TD. Leon vs. Ronnie sounds like Ronnie vs. Jones except Jones had 2 more rush Tds instead of 1 more.

What is wrong with you? I never said that only receiving is important but it is part of the equation.

Let me ask you this - if a RB takes a handoff on the first offensive play and runs 99 yards for a score and the opponent's RB takes a screen pass on their first offensive play 99 yards for a score, who is winning the game? Which offense has the most yards? Which RB contributed the most to his team's success?

They are equal. That is why there is a yards from scrimmage stat in the NFL.

Running backs are judged by everything they do, running, receiving, and blocking. Jones is not as good as Brown in several aspects of the game. He is not better than Brown in any single aspect.

 

[nyjunc]

What is wrong with you? I never said that only receiving is important but it is part of the equation.

Let me ask you this - if a RB takes a handoff on the first offensive play and runs 99 yards for a score and the opponent's RB takes a screen pass on their first offensive play 99 yards for a score, who is winning the game? Which offense has the most yards? Which RB contributed the most to his team's success?

They are equal. That is why there is a yards from scrimmage stat in the NFL.

Running backs are judged by everything they do, running, receiving, and blocking. Jones is not as good as Brown in several aspects of the game. He is not better than Brown in any single aspect.

Leon's #s are comparable to Ronnie the way Ronnie's are to Jones. Since Brown is better than Jones then leon must be better than Brown?

Jopnes is not better than brown in any aspect of the game except producing better 3s and stepping up when his team needs him most but outside of that you have me. Everyone would rather have the guy whoc omes to play when the season is over vs. the guy who carried his bad offense on his back to a SB.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Leon's #s are comparable to Ronnie the way Ronnie's are to Jones. Since Brown is better than Jones then leon must be better than Brown?

Jopnes is not better than brown in any aspect of the game except producing better 3s and stepping up when his team needs him most but outside of that you have me. Everyone would rather have the guy whoc omes to play when the season is over vs. the guy who carried his bad offense on his back to a SB.

I'll take your refusal to answer a simple question as a sign that you are giving up....

Every one of your lame attempts at rationalization was shot down.

nyjunc - Jones was better than Brown last year.
finfan - Jones had only 80 more yards, lower YPC, fewer 20+ yard runs, etc. despite starting 4 more games.

nyjunc - Brown started slow
finfan - Brown had 873 yards from scrimmage and 4 TDs in the first 8 games. Jones had 704 yards and 3 TDs

nyjunc - Receiving yards don't count. Brown averaged only 3.8 YPC in the beginning of the season.
finfan - Jones averaged less - 3.7 YPC

nyjunc - It doesn't matter, his team didn't really neeeeeed him.


You are too funny.....


Brown outproduced Jones early in the season AND late in the season. That has been proven. You'll just have to make something else up.... This time, to a little reseach first so you don't look stupid.

 

[nyjunc]

nyjunc - Jones was better than Brown last year.
finfan - Jones had only 80 more yards, lower YPC, fewer 20+ yard runs, etc. despite starting 4 more games.

is 80 yards MORE better or worse? is 2 MORE Tds better or worse? My point was Jones has been better the lst 2 years. In the last 2 years:

Jones: 2545 yds, 15 TDs, 16 20 yd runs, 122 runs for 1st downs
Brown: 1915 yds, 9 TDs, 11 20 yd runs, 90 runs for 1st downs.


Which is better? the ONLY area Ronnie leads in is YPC and he has a .1 yd lead.

nyjunc - Brown started slow
finfan - Brown had 873 yards from scrimmage and 4 TDs in the first 8 games. Jones had 704 yards and 3 TDs

brown has 464 yds rushing on 3.8 YPC in the 1st 7 games.

Jones had 543 yds on 3.9 YPC in his first 7 games.
139-543

nyjunc - Receiving yards don't count. Brown averaged only 3.8 YPC in the beginning of the season.
finfan - Jones averaged less - 3.7 YPC

through 7 jones averaged more but when the 1-6 dolphins were done Ronnie had a good game and passed Jones.

Brown outproduced Jones early in the season AND late in the season. That has been proven. You'll just have to make something else up.... This time, to a little reseach first so you don't look stupid.

When a guy has more yards, TDs, 1st down runs, etc. how is he outplayed? Do you even read what you write?

 

[nick1]

Brown has more potential than Jones does. he is better as a receiver and as a blocker. just wait until this year when Cameron uses him like he did LT. he will reach his potential.

 

[nyjunc]

Brown has more potential than Jones does. he is better as a receiver and as a blocker. just wait until this year when Cameron uses him like he did LT. he will reach his potential.

I never said Brown wouldn't eventually be better, my argument was he has been better the last 2 years and going into 2007 he is considered the better RB.

careful on Cam Cameron turning him into LT. LT was an established back in the league before Cameron took over and let's also not forget that Cam didn't use LT enough in either of SD's playoff games and that's the biggest reason why SD hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

is 80 yards MORE better or worse? is 2 MORE Tds better or worse? My point was Jones has been better the lst 2 years. In the last 2 years:

Jones: 2545 yds, 15 TDs, 16 20 yd runs, 122 runs for 1st downs
Brown: 1915 yds, 9 TDs, 11 20 yd runs, 90 runs for 1st downs.


Which is better? the ONLY area Ronnie leads in is YPC and he has a .1 yd lead.

Given the fact that Jones played behind a better OL, in a weaker conference, and had more opportunities, Brown did the better job.

BTW, you are wrong, Brown also led last season in rushing yards per game, TDs per game, reception yards per game, receptions per game, 20 yard runs per game, etc. etc. etc.

brown has 464 yds rushing on 3.8 YPC in the 1st 7 games.

Jones had 543 yds on 3.9 YPC in his first 7 games.
139-543

through 7 jones averaged more but when the 1-6 dolphins were done Ronnie had a good game and passed Jones.

Enough with the arbitrary 7 game cutoff. 8 games in the first half of the season. You pick 7 to excluded Brown's performance against the Bears.

Through 8 games, Brown was better, period. More yards, better YPC, more TDs. Better.

When a guy has more yards, TDs, 1st down runs, etc. how is he outplayed? Do you even read what you write?

Thank you. Since Brown was better in all of those categories in the first 8 games, he outplayed Jones. There, you finally admit it.

In the last 8 games, Brown missed 3 games and didn't start a 4th. The only reasonable way to compare is to use YPC or production by game. No surprise, Brown was better.

The other thing you should notice is the significant dropoff in Jones' play from 2005 to 2006. Fewer carries, fewer yards, fewer TDs, fewer 20+ yard runs, lower YPC, shorter longest run, lower yards per reception, shorter longest reception. Almost every category had a significant dropoff. You have gotten a RB on the downside of his career.

One more question to burst your "Only total rushing yards matter" bubble. Do you really think that there are more than 41 RBs in the league that are better than Reggie Bush? No rational person would think that. At least that many had more rushing yards than Bush last season. Do you seriously think that Maurice Morris is better than Reggie Bush? How about Jerious Norwood? Justin Fargas? Get real.

Finally, here is a ranking of the top 16 RBs last season by yards per game (pay special attention to numbers 13 and 16):

1 L. Tomlinson RB, SDG 348 1815 5.2 113.4 85 28 2 1
2 Larry Johnson RB, KAN 416 1789 4.3 111.8 47 17 2 2
3 Frank Gore RB, SFO 312 1695 5.4 105.9 72 8 5 5
4 Tiki Barber RB, NYG 327 1662 5.1 103.9 55 5 3 1
5 S. Jackson RB, STL 346 1528 4.4 95.5 59 13 2 1
6 Willie Parker RB, PIT 337 1494 4.4 93.4 76 13 6 4
7 S. Alexander RB, SEA 252 896 3.6 89.6 33 7 5 3
8 Travis Henry RB, TEN 270 1211 4.5 86.5 70 7 3 1
9 Rudi Johnson RB, CIN 341 1309 3.8 81.8 22 12 6 2
10 B. Westbrook RB, PHI 240 1217 5.1 81.1 71 7 1 1
11 C. Taylor RB, MIN 304 1214 4.0 80.9 95 6 4 3
12 Tatum Bell RB, DEN 233 1025 4.4 78.8 51 2 3 3
13 Ronnie Brown RB, MIA 241 1008 4.2 77.5 47 5 4 2
14 Fred Taylor RB, JAC 231 1146 5.0 76.4 76 5 2 1
15 Ahman Green RB, GNB 266 1059 4.0 75.6 70 5 2 2
16 Thomas Jones RB, CHI 296 1210 4.1 75.6 30 6 1 1

 

[JIVE]

Jones is solid but Brown has the chance to be something special.


FinfaninBuffalo-the little one in your avatar is absolutely adorable.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Jones is solid but Brown has the chance to be something special.

I agree

FinfaninBuffalo-the little one in your avatar is absolutely adorable.

Thank you. The photo is two years old, but it's my favorite in Fins gear.

 

[smellslikefish]

Kevin Faulk

not even close :)