3 years ago when the steelers drafted troy polomalu steeler fans hated the pick. they wanted QB and OLB....now what are there thoughts on troy polamalu...probably the same thoughts we'll have with Jason Allen in a few years
Boomer, Ck: Tell us your take on the Fins picks
- Thread starter Finfanforever
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jason allen is 6'0" 3/4 209lbs thats not really undersized, and if you look at the guys on our roster, he is tied with deke cooper for the biggest DB we have:confused: having said that, i really would have liked to see manny lawson or even carpenter with that pick and a db in the 3rd or 4th(and there were a few available) but i think at the end of the day allen will turn out to be a good pick.
Nappy Roots said:
I disagree, they said the same thing about Jerry Rice, Hagen has the ability as noted by Saban to quickly get off the line and quickly cut and separate, that is really more important than straight line speed.
Hagen will be a huge receiver for us.
airtime70 said:
and to blitz & disrupt the run game. Capers will afford him every opportunity to succeed.
I couldn't disagree more with NaboCanes appraisal of Jason Allen, Saban has checked out the injury with his own doctors, I think he has a much better idea of the health status of Jason Allen than Mel Kiper or you and I.
Jason Allen is exactly the kind of free safety you need in todays league, one with the skills to cover like a corner but hit like a safety.
With the changes made to pass interference enforcement you can no longer put Corners out an island and expect them to blanket receivers, a safety like Allen is the future of the position in shutting down passing offenses.
Also, it seems Nabocane didn't hear Nick Saban say that he will not reach to fill a need but will rather draft the highest rated player on his board, you may not agree with his board, but thats the way it is.
I love the way Sabans drafts, taking players that all have the potential to be very good, versus filling needs with marginal talent.
Jason Allen is exactly the kind of free safety you need in todays league, one with the skills to cover like a corner but hit like a safety.
With the changes made to pass interference enforcement you can no longer put Corners out an island and expect them to blanket receivers, a safety like Allen is the future of the position in shutting down passing offenses.
Also, it seems Nabocane didn't hear Nick Saban say that he will not reach to fill a need but will rather draft the highest rated player on his board, you may not agree with his board, but thats the way it is.
I love the way Sabans drafts, taking players that all have the potential to be very good, versus filling needs with marginal talent.
Dolfan5000
Mark my words, I'll get mine
Finfan32, how do I be a smartass?finfan32 said:
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
Anyone have $5?
:)
Sorry I couldn't resist!
:)
Sorry I couldn't resist!
BlueFin said:
how are you disagreeing with me then?
fixed it for you :wink:Dolfan5000 said:
good points great wade. Allen is a perfect "chess piece" as was put by one draftnick. Perhaps he isn't the sexiest pick for some folks, but I sure like it. How can you not trust Nicks ability to evaluate talent? After his draft last year I trust him to make the best decision.
Round 1 -- Tennessee S Jason Allen to the Dolphins. Defensive-minded coach Nick Saban has the Dolphins on the brink of contention, and this is the type of player who can put them over the top. Safeties are all the rage for championship-caliber teams, and Allen figures to be vital in Stage 2 of Saban's reloading project.
This was from Vinnie Iyer on Sporting news, he ranks it as one of the more intriguing picks.
This was from Vinnie Iyer on Sporting news, he ranks it as one of the more intriguing picks.
NaboCane
I'm on my comma
follow-up...
Allen is an awesome talent, and I'll keep saying that because I believe it and because I don't want anyone to think I'm putting him down at all. Even his health concern I could set aside, unless it will be chronic and debilitating.
But my point is that Saban acted in a way that defied his own blueprint for building the team by taking Allen over Carpenter and Cromartie. As I said in my analysis, those two are custom-made for what Saban wants for his D...that's not me saying it, it's his own definition of the positions.
Allen is a great talent, and will doubtless perform well if the concern about his hip is unfounded or exaggerated; however, an irrefutable fact is Allen's size - he is 6'0"+...now answer me this: if Saban has stated a preference for big corners, then why would he want a small safety!?
Is it possible that he wants his safeties smaller than his corners? Of course not. So Saban went against type for Allen, because he considers Allen to be such a superior player that he overcomes his height and weight. Fine. But what about his injury history? Forget the hip for the moment, this is what Scott Wright and Draft Scout had to say:
Hmm...you know, for all the swooning being done around here for this guy, he sure has a lot of weaknesses that don't translate well to the pros; "Average speed for the outside might be exposed at the next level..." "Has very good timed speed, but struggles a bit to maintain position when trying to cover on the perimeter..." "Slow to recognize plays / sometimes influenced by play-action..."
Here's the bottom line: Might be a 'tweener without a true position... this is not a quality you look for in a 1st-round pick, in the middle of the round.. It's a quality that, if you're a coach with the pedigree of a Nick Saban, as smart and disciplined as he's supposed to be with his draft picks, you let other coaches make the mistake of taking him too early.
If you're a coach with the savvy and the confident knowledge of what you want of each position and each player on your team, you don't pass on a Bobby Carpenter; 6'3"/256#/4.6 - the absolute prototype of the linebacker you've wanted on your team, and a very difficult position to draft for because they don't come along this perfect very often - or an Antonio Cromartie; 6'2"+/ 208#/4.4 - a guy who exceeds the prototype of your ideal corner, a guy with a combination of coverage skills at a high program/competition level and essentially the same speed as the undersized guy you did end up drafting.
You don't take an undersized player with injury concerns - various injury concerns - in the middle of the 1st round. You just don't. And you ABSOLUTELY don't do that when you only have 3 picks in the first 6 rounds, in a draft as deep as this one in talent and players with coachable issues and tremendous upside. You just don't.
Someone argued that Allen is pound-for-pound the best DB in the draft; and that's fine. Except that players don't play pound-for-pound - they play as the sum total of their assets and liabilities. Talent is ONE of the factors that go into evaluating a player; how he fits into your overall plan - your blueprint for your team - is another. And yet another is injury history; a player with a history of more than one injury that is outside the unfortunately normal knee injuries and breaks, bumps and bruises in college doesn't translate well into a world in which all the players are the size, speed and power of the very best you faced in college.
But the one deciding factor in evaluating who's best for a certain pick in a draft in which you have very few picks to begin with is who else is available when it's your turn to make that pick.
And, more than Allen's liabilities, it's the assets of Bobby Carpenter and Antonio Cromartie at that pick, and how well they fit into the plan that Saban himself has for his team, that make me reach the conclusion that Allen was the wrong pick for Saban to make with the 16th pick on Saturday.
Allen is an awesome talent, and I'll keep saying that because I believe it and because I don't want anyone to think I'm putting him down at all. Even his health concern I could set aside, unless it will be chronic and debilitating.
But my point is that Saban acted in a way that defied his own blueprint for building the team by taking Allen over Carpenter and Cromartie. As I said in my analysis, those two are custom-made for what Saban wants for his D...that's not me saying it, it's his own definition of the positions.
Allen is a great talent, and will doubtless perform well if the concern about his hip is unfounded or exaggerated; however, an irrefutable fact is Allen's size - he is 6'0"+...now answer me this: if Saban has stated a preference for big corners, then why would he want a small safety!?
Is it possible that he wants his safeties smaller than his corners? Of course not. So Saban went against type for Allen, because he considers Allen to be such a superior player that he overcomes his height and weight. Fine. But what about his injury history? Forget the hip for the moment, this is what Scott Wright and Draft Scout had to say:
[b said:
[b said:
Hmm...you know, for all the swooning being done around here for this guy, he sure has a lot of weaknesses that don't translate well to the pros; "Average speed for the outside might be exposed at the next level..." "Has very good timed speed, but struggles a bit to maintain position when trying to cover on the perimeter..." "Slow to recognize plays / sometimes influenced by play-action..."
Here's the bottom line: Might be a 'tweener without a true position... this is not a quality you look for in a 1st-round pick, in the middle of the round.. It's a quality that, if you're a coach with the pedigree of a Nick Saban, as smart and disciplined as he's supposed to be with his draft picks, you let other coaches make the mistake of taking him too early.
If you're a coach with the savvy and the confident knowledge of what you want of each position and each player on your team, you don't pass on a Bobby Carpenter; 6'3"/256#/4.6 - the absolute prototype of the linebacker you've wanted on your team, and a very difficult position to draft for because they don't come along this perfect very often - or an Antonio Cromartie; 6'2"+/ 208#/4.4 - a guy who exceeds the prototype of your ideal corner, a guy with a combination of coverage skills at a high program/competition level and essentially the same speed as the undersized guy you did end up drafting.
You don't take an undersized player with injury concerns - various injury concerns - in the middle of the 1st round. You just don't. And you ABSOLUTELY don't do that when you only have 3 picks in the first 6 rounds, in a draft as deep as this one in talent and players with coachable issues and tremendous upside. You just don't.
Someone argued that Allen is pound-for-pound the best DB in the draft; and that's fine. Except that players don't play pound-for-pound - they play as the sum total of their assets and liabilities. Talent is ONE of the factors that go into evaluating a player; how he fits into your overall plan - your blueprint for your team - is another. And yet another is injury history; a player with a history of more than one injury that is outside the unfortunately normal knee injuries and breaks, bumps and bruises in college doesn't translate well into a world in which all the players are the size, speed and power of the very best you faced in college.
But the one deciding factor in evaluating who's best for a certain pick in a draft in which you have very few picks to begin with is who else is available when it's your turn to make that pick.
And, more than Allen's liabilities, it's the assets of Bobby Carpenter and Antonio Cromartie at that pick, and how well they fit into the plan that Saban himself has for his team, that make me reach the conclusion that Allen was the wrong pick for Saban to make with the 16th pick on Saturday.