BoSox get Beckett!!!!!

[RWhitney014]

Let's take this from the top.

-Chili Davis: The Yanks tried to trade for him in 1997 and offered Jorge Posada, the Royals turned them down. He was not a major FA that was coveted by a ton of teams and just outbid by the yanks. Any team could have had him. The yanks signed him to a deal where he made less than a $mil more than he was in KC.

-Tim Raines: A minor deal as Raines was not a coveted player and was heading into the twilight of his career. In '95 playing for the ChiSox he made $3.7 mil, as a Yanke in '96 he made $2.1 mil.

-Strawberry: yet another player nobody wanted and everyone could have had.

-Chad Curtis: Acquired in 1997 for David Weathers who was a big part of our '96 Cahmpionship. Once again, another player anyone could have had. Made a whopping $3 mil in 2 1/2 years w/ the yanks. Yep another bought player.

-Tino martinez- Traded for our top prospect Russell Davis and a quality LH pitcher in Sterling Hitch****(a future LCS MVP) so he wasn't acquired for nothing, this wasn't a straight salary dump.

-Paul O'Neill: was a PLATOON player in Cincy and we gave up an ALL-STAR in Roberto Kelly to get him, a young All-Star by the way.

-Luis Sojo: Are you kidding me? Yanks got him off waivers, there was a major battle to get him

-Chuck Knoblauch: Gave up not 1 but TWO All-Stars to get him. Christian Guzman & Eric Milton plus 2 other players. Minny got the bst of that deal as Chuck was never a great player for us.

-Scott brosius: Did you even know who Scott Brosius was before he was a Yankee? Another guy no one wanted and was a .203 hitter the year before we got him.

-Joe Girardi: yet another low cost FA anyone could have had.

-david Wells: Was the ONLY major FA the Yanks signed on that team and the only other major FA we had on any of those teams was Jimym Key and Key was on 1 title team in '96 and Wells just 1 title team in '98.

-Mike Stanton: Took a pay CUT to come to the Yanks. made $1.7 mil in '96 w/ Bos, made 1.6 mil w/ the Yanks in '97.

-Nelson: acquired in Tino deal and was a throw in, a player anyone could have had.

-David Cone- Gave up 3 bit time prospects, not the yanks fault they didn't pan out.

-Grame lloyd: gave up Gerald Williams, a player teams were trying to trade for for years and we wouldn't give up, and some guy named Bob Wickman.

-Irabu: was a FA we singed but was not a contributor.

-Hernandez: Int's FA, others could have signed him. The yanks took a major risk especially after the Irabu signing was a dud. Made $750,000 in '98, don't you think other tams could have afforded that?




the core of the LATEST dynasty was mnostly homegrown(outside of O'Neill), then we traded away good prospects and good players to get players who were a better fit for us and added very few high salaried FAs. As usual you are wrong again.



Actually we did that in the 80s and are doing it now but in the 90s we didn't go after every FA, we made wise moves. We gave up big time prospects to get certian palyers and signed others to low salary deals and sprinkled them in w/ the core of homegrown talent which is why we won. The major reason we haven't won since 200 is b/c we have TRIED to buy Championships but it has not worked.



We needed jeffrey maier to get by the O's? Last I checked we won 4 games to 1 not 4 games to 3 and we blew game 2 when mariano wasn't available b/c he had pitched 2 innings in game 1. In game 2 we had a 3-2 lead in the 7th where Mo normally would have pitched the 7th and 8th and the Maier play probaby would have beena double anyway and we'd have had the tying run on 2nd. regardless of that we would have won the series.

I give you credit, at least you tried. You were unaware of circumstances of the acquisitions but now you know and now you know we didn't buy Championships in those years.

That's all good and well, but homegrown players are homegrown players, and none of those guys were, regardless of how they were acquired or how well they did.

 

[RWhitney014]

We thought that about Chad Fox early in 2003. He was a complete disaster for us. All it took was a change of scenery and he was an integral part of your World Series run.

These bullpen guys are usually bust or boom, and results change every year. Plus like GreenMonster said, he's better than some of the bums we had coming out of the pen the last couple of years.

He was relegated to 5th inning and mop up duty last season, and McKeon rode guys like Nate Bump and Matt Perisho far, far too long. Everybody here lost complete faith in him, and everyone here is glad that he's gone because he whined when he lost his closer's job to Todd Jones last year, a guy who had 40 saves.

 

[PressCoverage]

Let's take this from the top.

-Chili Davis: The Yanks tried to trade for him in 1997 and offered Jorge Posada, the Royals turned them down. He was not a major FA that was coveted by a ton of teams and just outbid by the yanks. Any team could have had him. The yanks signed him to a deal where he made less than a $mil more than he was in KC.

-Tim Raines: A minor deal as Raines was not a coveted player and was heading into the twilight of his career. In '95 playing for the ChiSox he made $3.7 mil, as a Yanke in '96 he made $2.1 mil.

-Strawberry: yet another player nobody wanted and everyone could have had.

-Chad Curtis: Acquired in 1997 for David Weathers who was a big part of our '96 Cahmpionship. Once again, another player anyone could have had. Made a whopping $3 mil in 2 1/2 years w/ the yanks. Yep another bought player.

-Tino martinez- Traded for our top prospect Russell Davis and a quality LH pitcher in Sterling Hitch****(a future LCS MVP) so he wasn't acquired for nothing, this wasn't a straight salary dump.

-Paul O'Neill: was a PLATOON player in Cincy and we gave up an ALL-STAR in Roberto Kelly to get him, a young All-Star by the way.

-Luis Sojo: Are you kidding me? Yanks got him off waivers, there was a major battle to get him

-Chuck Knoblauch: Gave up not 1 but TWO All-Stars to get him. Christian Guzman & Eric Milton plus 2 other players. Minny got the bst of that deal as Chuck was never a great player for us.

-Scott brosius: Did you even know who Scott Brosius was before he was a Yankee? Another guy no one wanted and was a .203 hitter the year before we got him.

-Joe Girardi: yet another low cost FA anyone could have had.

-david Wells: Was the ONLY major FA the Yanks signed on that team and the only other major FA we had on any of those teams was Jimym Key and Key was on 1 title team in '96 and Wells just 1 title team in '98.

-Mike Stanton: Took a pay CUT to come to the Yanks. made $1.7 mil in '96 w/ Bos, made 1.6 mil w/ the Yanks in '97.

-Nelson: acquired in Tino deal and was a throw in, a player anyone could have had.

-David Cone- Gave up 3 bit time prospects, not the yanks fault they didn't pan out.

-Grame lloyd: gave up Gerald Williams, a player teams were trying to trade for for years and we wouldn't give up, and some guy named Bob Wickman.

-Irabu: was a FA we singed but was not a contributor.

-Hernandez: Int's FA, others could have signed him. The yanks took a major risk especially after the Irabu signing was a dud. Made $750,000 in '98, don't you think other tams could have afforded that?




the core of the LATEST dynasty was mnostly homegrown(outside of O'Neill), then we traded away good prospects and good players to get players who were a better fit for us and added very few high salaried FAs. As usual you are wrong again.



Actually we did that in the 80s and are doing it now but in the 90s we didn't go after every FA, we made wise moves. We gave up big time prospects to get certian palyers and signed others to low salary deals and sprinkled them in w/ the core of homegrown talent which is why we won. The major reason we haven't won since 200 is b/c we have TRIED to buy Championships but it has not worked.



We needed jeffrey maier to get by the O's? Last I checked we won 4 games to 1 not 4 games to 3 and we blew game 2 when mariano wasn't available b/c he had pitched 2 innings in game 1. In game 2 we had a 3-2 lead in the 7th where Mo normally would have pitched the 7th and 8th and the Maier play probaby would have beena double anyway and we'd have had the tying run on 2nd. regardless of that we would have won the series.

I give you credit, at least you tried. You were unaware of circumstances of the acquisitions but now you know and now you know we didn't buy Championships in those years.

a typical post by you.. breaking everything down, with a slant to each point you try to make, then wrapped in a boquet of "fact" and a smarmy comment at the end like "now you know"... :sleep:

despite your repetition smoke screen, this isn't about how many prospects the Yankees gave up, nor the unprovable theory that "any team could have had him"... it's about the total team salary given up, and that 76% of your roster came from somewhere else ... and that was just the beginning of your team's skyrocketing payroll.... they lapped the field from '99 onward in team salary, and you know it ... as usual, you're slanting again to avoid the fact that your favorite baseball team has always used money and influence to buy its own success...

"In 1999, however, the Yankees began buying championships. Their offseason spending skyrocketed and their 1999 midseason shopping spree was legendary.. clubs like Oakland, Seattle, Houston and Atlanta would be winning the championships if there was anything close to payroll equity among Major League Baseball teams. For example, if the Mariners had the Yankee budget, they may very well have been able to keep Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey Jr and Alex Rodriguez. With those three players in the fold (or even two in the fold), it would have been very difficult for New York to beat Seattle in 1999 and 2000. The Yankees barely squeezed by the Oakland A's - a team with a payroll one-third of New York's - in the first round of the playoffs in 2000 and 2001. If the Red Sox had an extra $50 million to spend in 2003, Boston would not have lost to New York in the ALCS no matter what foolishness Grady Little provided..."

http://www.bostonsportshub.com/mlbpayroll.htm

the original argument was that the Yankees try to buy championships... for which you've already admitted and capitulated... it's a tactic that won them titles into the 70s, and helped put them in ruin for 18 glorious years (in addition to your soulless owner's criminal activities and banishments)... here's hoping their latest downswing in salary/prospect exhaustion lasts another 18 years... but even by then, your control freak owner won't be around any longer, with no shady shoe deals or cable giant money to throw at his obsession...

the yankees remind me of that sad, dumb, rich guy at the poker table... playing a pair of aces and betting and betting and betting, doubling his loss from the previous hand, and figuring he can eventually just buy the pot...

 

[Ray Finkle]

Are the Angels really considering that?

Wow...I hope they do it. Shields is a horse, Anderson can still play a little and Santana has a really live arm.

Get them out of the West.:evil:

That's the rumor I'm hearing, so who knows. It's the best trade rumor I've heard for Manny so as a Red Sox fan if the Sox are going to trade Manny I'd do that deal.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Sorry, guys, but Mota sucks. He keeps his fastball up and is far too hesitant to throw his changeup. I'm glad we got rid of him. And that Harvey Garcia has a live arm.

Mota is still better than anything we had last year. Also it is worth noting that Mota had some of his best years in LA when Dave Wallace was pitching coach.

I'd trade Mota for Harvey Garcia any day. It's worth the risk.

 

[DonShula84]

Wow even better deal. If only the Sox would give up Trot Nixon and Matt Clement maybe the Marlins would have thrown in Willis and Miggy Cabrerra.

If the Sox can trade Wells to SD for bullpen help and IF the rumored trade Manny to the Angels for Garret Anderson, Scott Shields and Ervin Santana then I'd really really like the bullpen and pitching staff.

I really cant see that trade happening.

 

[nyjunc]

That's all good and well, but homegrown players are homegrown players, and none of those guys were, regardless of how they were acquired or how well they did.

Buying Championships is getting players on salary dumps from other teams for basically nothing and buying a bunch of high priced FA's, the Yankees did NOT do that during the latest dynasty.

a typical post by you.. breaking everything down, with a slant to each point you try to make, then wrapped in a boquet of "fact" and a smarmy comment at the end like "now you know"...

And typical BS from my favorite fan PC! Always following me around and commenting on my posts then when you are told the real story you still ignore the facts.


So b/c a quote from bostonsportshub.com says the Yanks bought titles then it's fact?

Let's break this down.

In 1999, however, the Yankees began buying championships. Their offseason spending skyrocketed and their 1999 midseason shopping spree was legendary.. clubs like Oakland, Seattle, Houston and Atlanta would be winning the championships if there was anything close to payroll equity among Major League Baseball teams

How do you explain the Padres? the marlins? the Angels of '02? They were all lower salary teams that made or won the World Series. Championships are won w/ good decisions not w/ money. If so then the Yankees would have even more and teams like bal, LAD, NYM, Bos would have a ton of WS apperances in the lst decade at the least.

In 1996 we had a payroll of about $4 mil more than Atl. Are you telling me that $4 mil was the difference in the WS?

Houston made the postseason in 1998 and LOST to San Diego another small payroll team.

For example, if the Mariners had the Yankee budget, they may very well have been able to keep Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey Jr and Alex Rodriguez. With those three players in the fold (or even two in the fold), it would have been very difficult for New York to beat Seattle in 1999 and 2000.

Let's see, those 3 played together at their peaks in 1997 and couldn't even win a playoff series. Griffey wound up getting hurt year after year and ARod has not exactly been mr. Clutch so for someone to say that it is typical jealous Yankee hatred.

The Yankees barely squeezed by the Oakland A's - a team with a payroll one-third of New York's - in the first round of the playoffs in 2000 and 2001.

And we lost to Anaheim in '02 and had a $60 mil advantage on them and lost to Fla in '03 and had over a $100 mill edge. The bottom line is high payroll teams can be beat, you may have to work harder and don't have the luxury to make as many mistakes but oak not winning a playoff series is not an excuse b/c of payroll. What was Oak's excuse when they lost to Minnesota?

If the Red Sox had an extra $50 million to spend in 2003, Boston would not have lost to New York in the ALCS no matter what foolishness Grady Little provided..."

Is that a fact? i wonder if this Red Sox fan acknowledges that his team had a huge payroll advantage over Oak & Ana in '03 '04 to even play the Yanks? and I wonder if he thinks Boston bought a WS since they had a $44 mil edge over SL in the WS in 2004?

the original argument was that the Yankees try to buy championships... for which you've already admitted and capitulated... it's a tactic that won them titles into the 70s, and helped put them in ruin for 18 glorious years (in addition to your soulless owner's criminal activities and banishments)... here's hoping their latest downswing in salary/prospect exhaustion lasts another 18 years... but even by then, your control freak owner won't be around any longer, with no shady shoe deals or cable giant money to throw at his obsession...

Ahh the jealousy of the Yankee hater, I love it! I am so grateful to be a fan of the greatest franchise in the history of American sports.

 

[unifiedtheory]

Let's take this from the top.



-Scott brosius: Did you even know who Scott Brosius was before he was a Yankee? Another guy no one wanted and was a .203 hitter the year before we got him.

Not to defend a Yankee fan that seems to be doing well on his own but, Brosius was traded for Kenny Rogers in a classic "2 guys who needed a change of scenery" deal.

Rogers HAD to get out of New York and Brosius was a liability in Oakland. The A's had a guy named Chavez who they needed to get in the lineup more.

Brosius lost it for a year at the plate. He was always a great defensive third baseman though, even in his .203 year.

 

[Clark Kent]

What's not to like about this deal? We gave up Hanley Ramirez (who many have soured on due to his hitting- don't get me wrong the kid can play) and our 3rd or 4th best pitching prospect (behind Papelbon, Lester and Hansen) in Anibal Sanchez for a proven big game 25 year old pitcher (Josh Beckett)and a gold glove 3rd/1st baseman (Mike Lowell) who the Sox might move to Minnesota for Scott Baker and J.C. Romero and possibly Kyle Loshe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hansen get his *** owned in AA? Major problems with his slider and such? No off-spead pitches, etc... Or did I hear wrong?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hansen get his *** owned in AA? Major problems with his slider and such? No off-spead pitches, etc... Or did I hear wrong?

No Hansen was basically untouchable in A and AA. I believe he didn't even let up a run in either league. He had problems with his slider in the big leagues mainly because he still had a tired arm. He has a GREAT slider, however Dave Wallace has come out and said that he wants Hansen to learn a 3rd pitch (a change up I believe). So Hansen is expected to start the year in AAA.

I think you're thinking of Delcarmen playing in the big leagues. He didn't have a good 2nd or 3rd pitch and got hit hard at times. Also it didn't help that Francoma brought him into tough spots for a struggling youngster and didn't use him in spots where the Sox were up by a ton or down by a ton. He'll also work on a 2nd and 3rd pitch and start in AAA.

 

[PressCoverage]

Buying Championships is getting players on salary dumps from other teams for basically nothing and buying a bunch of high priced FA's, the Yankees did NOT do that during the latest dynasty.



And typical BS from my favorite fan PC! Always following me around and commenting on my posts then when you are told the real story you still ignore the facts.


So b/c a quote from bostonsportshub.com says the Yanks bought titles then it's fact?

Let's break this down.



How do you explain the Padres? the marlins? the Angels of '02? They were all lower salary teams that made or won the World Series. Championships are won w/ good decisions not w/ money. If so then the Yankees would have even more and teams like bal, LAD, NYM, Bos would have a ton of WS apperances in the lst decade at the least.

In 1996 we had a payroll of about $4 mil more than Atl. Are you telling me that $4 mil was the difference in the WS?

Houston made the postseason in 1998 and LOST to San Diego another small payroll team.



Let's see, those 3 played together at their peaks in 1997 and couldn't even win a playoff series. Griffey wound up getting hurt year after year and ARod has not exactly been mr. Clutch so for someone to say that it is typical jealous Yankee hatred.



And we lost to Anaheim in '02 and had a $60 mil advantage on them and lost to Fla in '03 and had over a $100 mill edge. The bottom line is high payroll teams can be beat, you may have to work harder and don't have the luxury to make as many mistakes but oak not winning a playoff series is not an excuse b/c of payroll. What was Oak's excuse when they lost to Minnesota?



Is that a fact? i wonder if this Red Sox fan acknowledges that his team had a huge payroll advantage over Oak & Ana in '03 '04 to even play the Yanks? and I wonder if he thinks Boston bought a WS since they had a $44 mil edge over SL in the WS in 2004?

Ahh the jealousy of the Yankee hater, I love it! I am so grateful to be a fan of the greatest franchise in the history of American sports.

you continue to rest your argument on 1998... the last year you weren't light years ahead of the entire league in team salary.... break down 99 and '00 for us, would you?? ... as for pointing the finger at Boston's escalating payroll, that's so typical of a Yankee fan... yes, they've finally capitulated that they HAVE to at least try to keep up and spend to compete -- a climate that YOUR team started.... But they're still some $50 million behind.. Doing more with less... far less...

as for dismissing the theory that money ensures championships based on your team's colossal failures the past 5 years... you're stumbling all over yourself and you don't even see it.... the debate isn't about the evil empire succeeding toward that ultimate goal or not; the debate is about their blatant annual ATTEMPT to do so... which you've admitted....

the point in all of this is as follows, something Yankee fans never seem to acknowledge: teams with enormous pay rolls always have a chance; teams with average or small payrolls almost NEVER have a chance... it's a slanted playing field... just like your argument...

but again, it's not that we hate the yankee players, per se... it's really about the aura created by their know-it-all fans... and i don't follow you around... you just happen to be everywhere, adding your negative two cents to everything south florida... :sleep:

 

[nyjunc]

you continue to rest your argument on 1998... the last year you weren't light years ahead of the entire league in team salary....

Let's take all 4 titles then.

1996: Led by less than $3 1/2 mil over Bal.
1998: TRAILED Baltimore by over $7 mil.
1999: Led by less than $7 mil over Tex.
2000: Led by $ 2 1/2 Mil over LAD.

The only year we were more than $3.5 mil over the 2nd highest team was 1999, is over $7 mil "light years" ahead? B/c if so then we were "light years" behind" in 1998 the year we set the record for most all time wins(including postseason).

Click the link then change the year to any of the 4 years you want:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=1996

the debate isn't about the evil empire succeeding toward that ultimate goal or not; the debate is about their blatant annual ATTEMPT to do so.

of course it is about succeeding, this all came about when a Yankee hater said we "bought" Champiosnhips so obviously it's about succeeding. I showed that we did not but once again I agree we have TRIED the last few years w/ no success.

teams with enormous pay rolls always have a chance; teams with average or small payrolls almost NEVER have a chance...

Really? Why did oak make the playoffs 4 straight years? why did Minny make it 3 straight years? why did SD make the WS? why did Ana win the WS? why did Fla win the WS('03 version) and why have teams like the Mets, Dodgers, O's and others been so bad? Obviously playing in a larger market and having a higher payroll gives an advantage BUT it does not ensure anything. If a team has the right people making decisions and makes the right decisions then they will win no matter what the payroll is and they always have a chance if they are making the right decisions.