BoSox get Beckett!!!!! | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

BoSox get Beckett!!!!!

MikeO said:
I just said Beckett isn't a superstar pitcher. He had one great world series in 2003 and didn't do anything before that or since. It's a good trade for Boston but if you think Beckett is a FRONTLINE pitcher your nuts. He is a solid #2 or #3 starter in Boston. And I think he will have trouble adjusting to the AL

didn't do anything? he's a career sub 3.5 ERA starter... who won 15 games last year ... he has electric stuff, is a bulldog, and owned the yankees...

please try not to allow your yankee bias to suggest he "hasn't done anything since"... ;)
 
PressCoverage said:
didn't do anything? he's a career sub 3.5 ERA starter... who won 15 games last year ... he has electric stuff, is a bulldog, and owned the yankees...

please try not to allow your yankee bias to suggest he "hasn't done anything since"... ;)

has only won more than 9 games ONCE in a season. Always injured. Blister problems. Shoulder issues. I'm not sold on the guy as a long term big-time pitcher. I put him in that same group as Clement and Miller. Good solid guys, but not a frontline starting pitcher.
 
MikeO said:
has only won more than 9 games ONCE in a season. Always injured. Blister problems. Shoulder issues. I'm not sold on the guy as a long term big-time pitcher. I put him in that same group as Clement and Miller. Good solid guys, but not a frontline starting pitcher.

Okay....you don't know much about baseball.

pssst....he would be the Yankees ace.....cough...cough...


Beckett is a horse....well...you will see...he will probably beat the Yankees 5 times next year on his way to a 18-6 3.28 era year....
 
Section126 said:
Okay....you don't know much about baseball.

pssst....he would be the Yankees ace.....cough...cough...


Beckett is a horse....well...you will see...he will probably beat the Yankees 5 times next year on his way to a 18-6 3.28 era year....

If he goes 18-6 in the AL with an era of 3.28 (remember DH in the AL) then YES he is a horse. Should win the CY YOUNG and is the 2nd coming of Roger Clemens in Boston. I would admit I was dead wrong.

I don't see that. I see him as a 13-9 pitcher with an ERA of 4.25 or so in Boston at least his first year. He will miss a few starts with minor injuries. I think in a couple years he could improve off of those numbers and get better but it might be a rocky start in the AL at first.

Even without Manny he will get a ton of run support in Boston so there are no excuses.
 
nyjunc said:
we haven't bought any titles, the latest dynasty was built from w/in. An example of a tam buying a Championship would be the 1997 Florida marlins.

oh, i'm sorry... so then from just your 98 team alone, Chili Davis, Tim Raines, Darryl Strawberry, Chad Curtis, Tino Martinez, Paul O'Neill, Luis Sojo, Chuck Knoblauch, Scott Brosius, Joe Girardi, David Wells, Mike Stanton, Jeff Nelson, David Cone, Graeme Lloyd, Hideki Irubu, Orlando Hernandez were all Yankee draft picks... My mistake...

No, you guys didn't outspend everyone for foreign imports Irubu nor Hernandez... No, Cone nor Wells had no other offers....

You know, nyjunc, in a long line of assanine posts, suggesting the New York Yankees have never outspent the entire league in an attempt to gain an enormous edge really takes the cake... It's the Yankees who have built up the arms race to the current state of baseball... Just like they trumped everyone in the 20s, and just like they trumped everyone in the 50s (it is believed in many circles they paid the KC Athletics to accept four bums in a trade for Roger Maris)... and 70s... ((((((after pitching phenomenon Catfish Hunter was released from his Oakland A's contract in 1974, the Yankees paid him the unheard-of salary of $2.85 million for four years. The unparalleled deal raised the bar for competitive contracts and set an unwanted precedent that would echo across both leagues for years to come... oh, and then there was Reggie Jackson)))))... If baseball was an even playing field for the entire league, from its inception, it is doubtful you guys would have half your titles... Certainly not all of your recent four...

You have an owner who was banned from baseball for "life," yet who was re-instated three years later... Gee, it's too bad Pete Rose didn't have that kind of money... That doesn't even include his 2-year suspension in the 70s... George was making illegal contributions to the Nixon administration? what a moron... And let's not forget the team's $93 million dollar "deal" with Addidas, which got him unanimously voted off the Baseball's executive council's ruling body. .... Yeah, the word "slimeball" comes to mind...

If anyone accuses the Yankees of "buying" their championships, their fans argue that Jeter, B Williams, Pettitte, Soriano, Rivera, and Posada are all home-grown talent. Then, they hope that nobody notices that this represents only 6 out of 25 players in 2000, and hope they don't bring up Clemens, Mussina, Hitch****, Witasik, Wohlers, Stanton, Martinez, Sojo, Knoblauch, O'Neill, Brosius, Justice, Lilly and more.

Has there ever been an elite free agent the past 15 years the Yankees weren't rumored to be "close to a deal" or "inquiring about?" Please... They are a team of mercenaries... Only recently have other teams played their game and tried to keep up with spending... And they still fall far far behind in payroll.... Please don't mention past Orioles or Dodgers teams' payrolls back then... You needed Jeffrey Maier to get past the O's, and the Dodgers were inept...

I'll capitulate on some points with you... But suggesting the Yankees have never set the standard on buying championships? Give us all a break, would you please?... And Tony Soprano really is in the waste management business...

:jt0323:
 
MikeO said:
When did Monteral and Seattle win a world series :shakeno:

They didn't however RJ did go to the playoffs in 1995 with Seattle, it's not like Johnson was always on losing teams. So was Beckett minus the World Series year.

Saying that it didn't matter that Johnson didn't win over 15 games until he was much older than Beckett because he was on bad teams and then blasting Beckett and saying he's overrated because he only one over 9 games once is silly because his team won a World Series once. That doesn't make sense. What about the other 4 years Beckett was with FL? Did they go to the playoffs? No. So Beckett, like Johnson, has been on some bad teams as well. And like Johnson, you have to think that on a good team with his home stadium sold out every game he pitches, Beckett will win more an 9 games in a season.
 
MikeO said:
has only won more than 9 games ONCE in a season. Always injured. Blister problems. Shoulder issues. I'm not sold on the guy as a long term big-time pitcher. I put him in that same group as Clement and Miller. Good solid guys, but not a frontline starting pitcher.

Same group as Clement and Miller? Come on get serious here. Put your feelings of the Red Sox aside. Beckett is no where near Clement or Miller. He's an ace. He's 25 years old and is a proven winner in big games and big situations. Let's not get crazy, I'd lay off the Thanksgiving alocholic egg nog or I were you.
 
FaninPatsyLand said:
Guillermo Mota really came out of nowhere being involved in this deal...

Totally surprised by this also.. Looks to me like another low risk, high reward move if it works.. I always like Mota, but the guy has really only had 2 good years.
 
Wow even better deal. If only the Sox would give up Trot Nixon and Matt Clement maybe the Marlins would have thrown in Willis and Miggy Cabrerra.

If the Sox can trade Wells to SD for bullpen help and IF the rumored trade Manny to the Angels for Garret Anderson, Scott Shields and Ervin Santana then I'd really really like the bullpen and pitching staff.
 
Ray Finkle said:
Wow even better deal. If only the Sox would give up Trot Nixon and Matt Clement maybe the Marlins would have thrown in Willis and Miggy Cabrerra.

If the Sox can trade Wells to SD for bullpen help and IF the rumored trade Manny to the Angels for Garret Anderson, Scott Shields and Ervin Santana then I'd really really like the bullpen and pitching staff.

Are the Angels really considering that?

Wow...I hope they do it. Shields is a horse, Anderson can still play a little and Santana has a really live arm.

Get them out of the West.:evil:
 
Sorry, guys, but Mota sucks. He keeps his fastball up and is far too hesitant to throw his changeup. I'm glad we got rid of him. And that Harvey Garcia has a live arm.
 
RWhitney014 said:
Sorry, guys, but Mota sucks. He keeps his fastball up and is far too hesitant to throw his changeup. I'm glad we got rid of him. And that Harvey Garcia has a live arm.

Mota may be a bit overrated but he is still decent if he can regain his 2000-2002 form. I would much rather seen this guy trot out of the Pen this year then some of the scrubs we sent to the mound last year./.
 
oh, i'm sorry... so then from just your 98 team alone, Chili Davis, Tim Raines, Darryl Strawberry, Chad Curtis, Tino Martinez, Paul O'Neill, Luis Sojo, Chuck Knoblauch, Scott Brosius, Joe Girardi, David Wells, Mike Stanton, Jeff Nelson, David Cone, Graeme Lloyd, Hideki Irubu, Orlando Hernandez were all Yankee draft picks... My mistake...

Let's take this from the top.

-Chili Davis: The Yanks tried to trade for him in 1997 and offered Jorge Posada, the Royals turned them down. He was not a major FA that was coveted by a ton of teams and just outbid by the yanks. Any team could have had him. The yanks signed him to a deal where he made less than a $mil more than he was in KC.

-Tim Raines: A minor deal as Raines was not a coveted player and was heading into the twilight of his career. In '95 playing for the ChiSox he made $3.7 mil, as a Yanke in '96 he made $2.1 mil.

-Strawberry: yet another player nobody wanted and everyone could have had.

-Chad Curtis: Acquired in 1997 for David Weathers who was a big part of our '96 Cahmpionship. Once again, another player anyone could have had. Made a whopping $3 mil in 2 1/2 years w/ the yanks. Yep another bought player.

-Tino martinez- Traded for our top prospect Russell Davis and a quality LH pitcher in Sterling Hitch****(a future LCS MVP) so he wasn't acquired for nothing, this wasn't a straight salary dump.

-Paul O'Neill: was a PLATOON player in Cincy and we gave up an ALL-STAR in Roberto Kelly to get him, a young All-Star by the way.

-Luis Sojo: Are you kidding me? :lol: Yanks got him off waivers, there was a major battle to get him :lol:

-Chuck Knoblauch: Gave up not 1 but TWO All-Stars to get him. Christian Guzman & Eric Milton plus 2 other players. Minny got the bst of that deal as Chuck was never a great player for us.

-Scott brosius: Did you even know who Scott Brosius was before he was a Yankee? Another guy no one wanted and was a .203 hitter the year before we got him.

-Joe Girardi: yet another low cost FA anyone could have had.

-david Wells: Was the ONLY major FA the Yanks signed on that team and the only other major FA we had on any of those teams was Jimym Key and Key was on 1 title team in '96 and Wells just 1 title team in '98.

-Mike Stanton: Took a pay CUT to come to the Yanks. made $1.7 mil in '96 w/ Bos, made 1.6 mil w/ the Yanks in '97.

-Nelson: acquired in Tino deal and was a throw in, a player anyone could have had.

-David Cone- Gave up 3 bit time prospects, not the yanks fault they didn't pan out.

-Grame lloyd: gave up Gerald Williams, a player teams were trying to trade for for years and we wouldn't give up, and some guy named Bob Wickman.

-Irabu: was a FA we singed but was not a contributor.

-Hernandez: Int's FA, others could have signed him. The yanks took a major risk especially after the Irabu signing was a dud. Made $750,000 in '98, don't you think other tams could have afforded that?


If anyone accuses the Yankees of "buying" their championships, their fans argue that Jeter, B Williams, Pettitte, Soriano, Rivera, and Posada are all home-grown talent.

the core of the LATEST dynasty was mnostly homegrown(outside of O'Neill), then we traded away good prospects and good players to get players who were a better fit for us and added very few high salaried FAs. As usual you are wrong again.

Has there ever been an elite free agent the past 15 years the Yankees weren't rumored to be "close to a deal" or "inquiring about?" Please.

Actually we did that in the 80s and are doing it now but in the 90s we didn't go after every FA, we made wise moves. We gave up big time prospects to get certian palyers and signed others to low salary deals and sprinkled them in w/ the core of homegrown talent which is why we won. The major reason we haven't won since 200 is b/c we have TRIED to buy Championships but it has not worked.

Please don't mention past Orioles or Dodgers teams' payrolls back then... You needed Jeffrey Maier to get past the O's, and the Dodgers were inept...

We needed jeffrey maier to get by the O's? :lol: Last I checked we won 4 games to 1 not 4 games to 3 and we blew game 2 when mariano wasn't available b/c he had pitched 2 innings in game 1. In game 2 we had a 3-2 lead in the 7th where Mo normally would have pitched the 7th and 8th and the Maier play probaby would have beena double anyway and we'd have had the tying run on 2nd. regardless of that we would have won the series.

I give you credit, at least you tried. You were unaware of circumstances of the acquisitions but now you know and now you know we didn't buy Championships in those years.
 
RWhitney014 said:
Sorry, guys, but Mota sucks. He keeps his fastball up and is far too hesitant to throw his changeup. I'm glad we got rid of him. And that Harvey Garcia has a live arm.

We thought that about Chad Fox early in 2003. He was a complete disaster for us. All it took was a change of scenery and he was an integral part of your World Series run.

These bullpen guys are usually bust or boom, and results change every year. Plus like GreenMonster said, he's better than some of the bums we had coming out of the pen the last couple of years.
 
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