why did Thomas fall off your board?
Brandon Graham high on Miami's wishlist
- Thread starter FinAtic8480
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why did Thomas fall off your board?
hoops
Tua time!
yeah i'm in complete agreement with ck's list...and order
ckparrothead
Premium Member
He'd be on it if I listed more players.
When I do a short board like this...there's no point listing a bunch of players I expect to be there. I don't expect all four of the players I listed to be taken in picks #1-11, mostly because I don't expect anyone to take Brandon Graham before we could.
I could list Earl Thomas at #5, but what would be the point? Someone in #1-4 is going to be available, so I'm not bothering to list more than those four.
You shouldn't take it to mean that I'm down on Earl Thomas. You should more take it to mean that my priorities are heavily placed on Berry, Bryant, Graham and Spiller.
I think Graham to Denver is a very strong possibility.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
...Really?
I don't see any reason why that would happen. They just drafted Robert Ayers to play OLB and they have Elvis Dumervil. I'm pretty sure they're set there.
I like this and with 1,2 gone that leaves Graham who should be there...
Oh **** I forgot all about Ayers.
it would be nice if berry was there, but i don't think we're even close to getting him. Any one of the others at 12 i wouldn't mind at all. We need a playmaker, besides the obvious elite potential of Bryant, Spiller can hurt teams in many ways. He can fill the position of Ricky in the wildcat, kickoffs, screens, passes out of the backfield, line up in slot, and finally run. Him and Graham are my two top choices for the pick. Regardless of height, Graham is going to be good, very good. He could be a better Dumervil for Nolan to mess with. If we go Spiller at 12, then Kindle or Worlids in the second would make me happy, Worlids over Kindle that is. I can see why people might think Kindle is a potential bust, but I must admit with some years to fully develop his skills and weightlifting, he could be scary as hell. COULD is the big word there though. So many players to choose from. I wish i could wake up and it just be the 22nd
Roman529
Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew
People said the same thing about Zach Thomas who was maybe 5'11" at best, with short arms. He turned out alright.
Elvis Dummerville is 5'11 and under Nolan he led the league in sacks i believe...another example is Mr. Harrison in Pitt. Hes about 6'0 and last i checked he is a top 3 OLB in the 3-4....size is only important to Parcells, but ask Nolan how he felt about Dumerville......we are gonna pass on this stud cuz of his size and NE is gonna snatch him up and hes gonna reck havoc on our QB/ Oline for years to come....FML
ckparrothead
Premium Member
About the size thing.
1. The short arm criticism turned out to be a myth. He was mis-measured at the Senior Bowl. He was re-measured at the Combine and his arms were 32+ inches long. He's got a wide chest and shoulders. You don't pass on a guy for having 32 inch arms where you'd take him if he had 33 inch arms. That's the definition of getting too caught up in numbers or measurements.
2. At 6'1.5" he's not as short as people are making him out to be. You can easily be an OLB in the NFL at that height. It's not even a detriment. Lamarr Woodley and Parys Haralson are the exact same height. Dwight Freeney, Elvis Dumervil and James Harrison are both significantly shorter. Joey Porter, Clint Sintim and Cameron Wake are barely an inch taller. Darryl Tapp and Robert Mathis are the same height. Tully Banta-Cain, Larry English and Chris Gocong are little more than a half inch taller. I agree that height is something you look for, but it is NOT worth splitting hairs over when we're talking about really good players.
1. The short arm criticism turned out to be a myth. He was mis-measured at the Senior Bowl. He was re-measured at the Combine and his arms were 32+ inches long. He's got a wide chest and shoulders. You don't pass on a guy for having 32 inch arms where you'd take him if he had 33 inch arms. That's the definition of getting too caught up in numbers or measurements.
2. At 6'1.5" he's not as short as people are making him out to be. You can easily be an OLB in the NFL at that height. It's not even a detriment. Lamarr Woodley and Parys Haralson are the exact same height. Dwight Freeney, Elvis Dumervil and James Harrison are both significantly shorter. Joey Porter, Clint Sintim and Cameron Wake are barely an inch taller. Darryl Tapp and Robert Mathis are the same height. Tully Banta-Cain, Larry English and Chris Gocong are little more than a half inch taller. I agree that height is something you look for, but it is NOT worth splitting hairs over when we're talking about really good players.
Was waiting for someone to correct the short-arms criticism. On my board, I flop Graham and Thomas, but I give only a slight edge to Spiller over Graham. He's the only OLB that makes perfect sense - to me - at #12. I do, though, think we can get him in the 15-17 range. But, the same can probably be said for E. Thomas. That's not a knock on either player or a reason to pass either up - just looks like it will shake out that way with the teams drafting behind us.
JT-forpresident
Believe In Miami
while i think the arm lenght is somewhat of an indicator for the ability to create separation off blocks, shed, push-pull, etc. an offensive lineman, it's not the ONLY one. People get caught up with that measurement, but hey listen i played with a DE back in high school who was 6'7 and had arms about 3-4 inches longer than mine, and i'm 6'4 , and he couldn't get off a block to save his life.
It's important to see beyond that measurement and go watch some tape to see how he fares against tall and long-armed offensive tackles (which are basically what he's gonna face in the nfl, those guys are bigger than in the ncaa)
While I haven't spent time doing so, i'm pretty confident after watching his overrall play that shedding a block isn't a problem for him. He's strong, he's got the experience, he's got big hands, and he plays low... arm lenght my ***
as for the height thing, i don't know... i personally think it's pretty important, but when i see guys like you mentionned, being succesful at the position, it pretty much proves me wrong
...on the other hand, who I think are the best End/ OLB players in the league right now happen to be pretty tall ... jared allen, julius peppers, mario williams, demarcus ware...
So I have a lukewarm opinion over your point on the height, but when all is said and done, besides height, i see no reason whatsoever to pass on him, none, zip. (except, you know, the guys named eric berry and dez bryant
)
while i think the arm lenght is somewhat of an indicator for the ability to create separation off blocks, shed, push-pull, etc. an offensive lineman, it's not the ONLY one. People get caught up with that measurement, but hey listen i played with a DE back in high school who was 6'7 and had arms about 3-4 inches longer than mine, and i'm 6'4 , and he couldn't get off a block to save his life.
It's important to see beyond that measurement and go watch some tape to see how he fares against tall and long-armed offensive tackles (which are basically what he's gonna face in the nfl, those guys are bigger than in the ncaa)
While I haven't spent time doing so, i'm pretty confident after watching his overrall play that shedding a block isn't a problem for him. He's strong, he's got the experience, he's got big hands, and he plays low... arm lenght my ***
as for the height thing, i don't know... i personally think it's pretty important, but when i see guys like you mentionned, being succesful at the position, it pretty much proves me wrong
on the other hand, who I think are the best End/ OLB players in the league right now happen to be pretty tall ... jared allen, julius peppers, mario williams, demarcus ware...
So I have a lukewarm opinion over your point on the height, but when all is said and done, besides height, i see no reason whatsoever to pass on him, none, zip.
Would you rate J. Allen and J. Peppers ahead of D. Freeney? I wouldn't.
Mr. Magoo
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According to you. And if I were running things, me too.
But Parcells/Ireland and Nolan's history tell a different story. It can't be ignored that men of Graham's height are almost never taken by these guys to play linebacker, especially outside linebacker, and especially that high.
These guys don't have the same philosophy as the Steelers, who don't really seem to care about height in the outside backers. But the prototype for our defense is 6'3, 255 pounds. That's Terrell Suggs' size, who Nolan helped pick at the top of the 1st round in Baltimore. That's John Abraham's size, who Parcells and Nolan picked in the top of the first round in New York. It's been their prototype for years and I see no reason it'll stop this year.
I agree Graham has fantastic tape, but I can absolutely see them sitting there going, "nice production, but an overachiever without prototypical size and no outstanding measurables. Late first, early second round grade." Other teams will of course have him higher than that so we don't end up with him.
Not the way I'd grade him. But I can see it happening.