Brandon Marshal / Vontae Davis trades Philbin moves?

[angryphin]

It's good that Vontae is gone. He's a value trap. He's a great talent but he's got a 10 cent head on his shoulders. For every great interception he makes or athletic play he dazzles us with he makes at least one, or more stupid plays that cost the team. By watching the pre-season game to date we really don't have much on offense, we have a lot of holes and we'll be lucky to win 5-6 games this year with a rookie qb. Stock up on draft picks and trade the guys who don't fit in. It sickening to watch this franchise underperform each season but we have not choice. This is my team and I'll watch every minute of every game regardless.

 

[SkapePhin]

This was Philbins quote after Johnson was released. “Let’s be honest: You have a boss, I have a boss and I don’t always agree with what the boss says every single time,” Philbin said.

I know it might seem I am stretching it here with that quote but I dont have the time to search for more evidence which is indeed out there.

ROSS is Philbin's boss...

 

[Ironside]

He was talking about Ross, who is his boss. Ireland is not his boss. Ireland cannot fire him.

At first, yes you'd think that. But in what respects is he going to differ on with Ross. Think about that for a minute. Are you implying that Ross is Jerry Jones? Maybe Philbin has trouble with Mark Antony, J-LO and that girl from the Black Eyed Peas?

No. Odds are we all know who he was talking about. It doesn't matter that Ireland may not have that specific authority to just fire him. However, if you think he isn't the main man here and wouldn't be the one to tell Ross, Philbin's got to go then well....I've got some prime land in the Everglades to sell you.

 

[Spesh]

ROSS is Philbin's boss...

Ross is everyone's boss. Joe Philbin is Mike Shermans boss. Jeff Ireland is Joe Philbins boss. Stephen Ross is Irelands boss. It runs up the chain. Just because Philbin has to answer to multiple people doesnt mean Ireland is somehow absolved of responsibility.

 

[CANDolphan]

At first, yes you'd think that. But in what respects is he going to differ on with Ross. Think about that for a minute. Are you implying that Ross is Jerry Jones? Maybe Philbin has trouble with Mark Antony, J-LO and that girl from the Black Eyed Peas?

No. Odds are we all know who he was talking about. It doesn't matter that Ireland may not have that specific authority to just fire him. However, if you think he isn't the main man here and wouldn't be the one to tell Ross, Philbin's got to go then well....I've got some prime land in the Everglades to sell you.

You're using simple conjecture here. Reality is, Ross is Philbin's boss. Ireland isn't. It's as simple as that. Nowhere did I imply Ross was Jerry Jones (which is confusing. Are you saying that Ross is a co-gm?)

Ireland is in charge of player management. What does that mean? It means he makes the moves. Think of it this way... when Philbin and co do their cuts, do you think they run them by Ireland first? Likely not. They just tell him who is staying and who is leaving.

I think you have the coach + GM dynamic a little skewed in your head, which is understandable, it appears a lot of people don't really understand it. As for the nonsense about the Black Eyed Peas and J-Lo (the latter which no longer owns any part of the team, BTW) is silly because they are minority shareholders. Anything they say has to pass through the majority... which is Philbin! Their boss!

Think of it like the CEO and CFO of a corporation. They aren't controlling of each other, and they both handle things that are intertwined in the business.

 

[CANDolphan]

Jeff Ireland is Joe Philbins boss.

This just isn't true. Ireland is the general manager, not the President of Operations or anything. in some organizations, the GM absolutely has power over the coaching staff, but not so in Miami.

 

[SkapePhin]

Ross is everyone's boss. Joe Philbin is Mike Shermans boss. Jeff Ireland is Joe Philbins boss. Stephen Ross is Irelands boss. It runs up the chain. Just because Philbin has to answer to multiple people doesnt mean Ireland is somehow absolved of responsibility.

I don't believe the chain runs like that... I think Phlbin and Ireland are at the top of their respective chains. Philbin runs the coaching department and Ireland runs the personnel department. From most accounts, Ireland wanted McCoy over Philbin. Ross tabbed his guy because HE is the boss. They both report directly to Ross. I haven't seen anything in Hard Knocks to suggest that Philbin reports to Ireland on ANYTHING. They work together. If Ireland was Philbin's boss, why wasn't Ireland the one to cut Chad Johnson? At the very least, wouldnt he have been in the room for such a major decision?

 

[Ironside]

You're using simple conjecture here.

Well, wait a second. You are saying I am using conjecture here but what can you show me from this organization that it isn't how I say the relationship seems to me, but rather as it is with another organization?

Your explanations are well and understood. However, you keep analyzing the dynamic of how it should be, rather than what we have seen it be HERE.

What examples can you bring to the table that make you believe that Ireland has less authority than he did in the past?

 

[Shark747]

At first, yes you'd think that. But in what respects is he going to differ on with Ross. Think about that for a minute. Are you implying that Ross is Jerry Jones? Maybe Philbin has trouble with Mark Antony, J-LO and that girl from the Black Eyed Peas?

No. Odds are we all know who he was talking about. It doesn't matter that Ireland may not have that specific authority to just fire him. However, if you think he isn't the main man here and wouldn't be the one to tell Ross, Philbin's got to go then well....I've got some prime land in the Everglades to sell you.

I don't agree with that. Philbin and Ireland are in a partnership. Ireland's job is to get the talent that Philbin needs and Philbins job is to coach the talent that Ireland brings in. Ross is the only one that can fire either man. Sure, If Ireland doesn't think Philbin is going to work out, he can go to Ross and tell him that. He better hope that he can convince Ross or that Ross believes it as well. If not, Ross will be keeping an eye on Ireland.

I would imagine that Philbin told Ireland that Vontae wasn't performing and that if he can get what he believes is good value, then he should be moved. If Ireland didn't agree then I don't think he would have been traded. I do think it started with Philbin though.

 

[Ironside]

This just isn't true. Ireland is the general manager, not the President of Operations or anything. in some organizations, the GM absolutely has power over the coaching staff, but not so in Miami.

But see that's been part of the 'allure' here. When ever reporters have asked what privileges you have here, Ireland and/or the coach said he has the power to assemble his staff. It has been known for quite sometime now that Ireland has full power over everything else.

The coach in Miami, COACHES. He can assemble his staff and whatnot, but in the end, that is what they are paid to do here. Everything else is Irelands job. The HC can run things by Ireland. Give his opinion, but in the end, Ireland calls it the way he feels it needs to be called.

Also, YES, I do believe that IRELAND has control over cuts. Philbin gives him the list. Ireland considers it and eventually decides what is the final call on that.

 

[Ironside]

When he came on (according to the team) in 2010: "But the Dolphins announced Tuesday afternoon that Parcells, who turned 69 last month, is taking a step back to be a “daily consultant,” while Ireland “will assume full control over all aspects and decisions in regard to the Miami Dolphin football team and support staff,” according to a statement not attributed to anybody in the organization." -- http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...olphins-gm-jeff-ireland-assumes-full-control/

 

[Shark747]

When he came on (according to the team) in 2010: "But the Dolphins announced Tuesday afternoon that Parcells, who turned 69 last month, is taking a step back to be a “daily consultant,” while Ireland “will assume full control over all aspects and decisions in regard to the Miami Dolphin football team and support staff,” according to a statement not attributed to anybody in the organization." -- http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...olphins-gm-jeff-ireland-assumes-full-control/

I think when it comes to Philbin, Ross has final say. Who fired Tony Sparano? Who HIRED Joe Philbin? Ireland had input on both, probably a lot of input. Ross had final say. Ireland can probably tell Philbin he needs to find another coordinator, but he needs to have good reason. Even if Ireland had full control in 2010, nothing says the rules didn't change. Ross is the man when it comes to Joe Philbin's fate. Ireland has final say on players. Philbin suggests the cuts and trades, Ireland makes final call. They talk enough that they are probably in agreement on most things.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I think this is a Philbin call. Remember, when he was hired he said that he has always felt like he could get along great with players who 'want to reach their potential' -- and wants those kind of guys on his team.

Vontae is a solid player with all world potential, but he certainly doesn't have the best attitude for maximizing that potential. Like or dislike the trade (I'm not wild about it), this seems to be a case of Philbin making it clear that he won't put up with bums.