Cap Situation - If Dolphins trade for LT Branden Albert

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by fisi, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. fisi

    fisi A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2010
    Messages:
    2,449
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    38
    • The Dolphins have $9.1 million remaining in cap space with 65 players under contract. Remember, only the top 51 cap numbers count against the cap, so we have 14 players under contract that do not impact the cap.


    • Also remember that the Dolphins will need about $6 million in cap space for rookie contracts. That leaves $3.1 million in cap space to spend right now.


    • After June 1st, the Dolphins will get an additional $10+ million in cap space. But this cap space CANNOT be used prior to June 1st, so the Dolphins can't sign Albert and wait for June 1st to come. If they are over the cap at any point, the NFL will take action.


    • The Dolphins could afford to trade for Albert and take the full $9.8 million hit if they were to cut Dmitri Patterson and Richard Marshall. This would open up an additional $8 million in cap space, putting the Dolphins at around $11 million in cap space (excluding rookie cap) prior to June 1st, which is enough to then fit in Albert's cap numbers.


    • There are two ways to handle the cap situation Albert would create.

    [h=3]Senario 1[/h]The Dolphins could trade for Albert and sign him to a long-term deal. His cap number for 2013 would be low and would mostly likely escalate in 2014 or 2015. The risk here is that we have several contracts escalating in 2014 and another big contract would put further strain on that. But there is a way around that risk. Remember that the cap space that the Dolphins have at the end of the 2013 season will roll over. If the Dolphins were to make Albert their last significant signing and part ways with big cap numbers such as Patterson's and Marshall's, after June 1st they would still have a considerable amount of cap space and would presumably be done with big signings. Barring a significant amount of injuries forcing the Dolphins to sign more players, the Dolphins could conceivably roll over a large amount of cap space for 2014. Some quick napkin math.
    Current cap space:

    • $9.1 million
    • $6 million for rookies
    • $3 million

    Cut Patterson and Marshall

    • $11 million in cap space

    Trade for Albert, sign to long-term deal

    • $4 million cap hit in 2013
    • $7 million in cap space

    June 1st - Dansby and Burnett off the books

    • $15 million in cap space

    Dolphins do not sign anymore free agents.

    That $15 million roll overs to 2014, where it is much needed.

    [h=3]Scenario 2 [/h]The Dolphins trade for Albert and decide to absord the $9.8 million hit this season. This could be worked under the cap and then Albert can resign for a long-term deal in 2014, with a smaller cap hit, it would fit nicely while other contracts escalate.

    Current cap space:

    • $9.1 million
    • $6 million for rookies
    • $3 million

    Cut Patterson and Marshall

    • $11 million in cap space

    Trade for Albert, take $9.8 million hit

    • $1 million in cap space

    June 1st - Dansby and Burnett off the books

    • $9 million in cap space

    Dolphins do not sign anymore free agents.

    That $9 million roll overs to 2014

    The Dolphins were willing to resign Jake Long to a long-term deal, so there is no reason they can't figure something out with Branden Albert. They can then focus on cornerback, which makes big cap numbers such as Dmitri Patterson and Richard Marshall very expendable.

    http://www.phinfever.com/newsite/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=953&Itemid=1
     
  2. Zounds

    Zounds CPA4LYFE Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    8,296
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Its more like $8 million in savings from cutting Patterson and Marshall.

    Patterson costs $4.5 mil this year and Marshall costs $5.72 mil this year, but cutting Marshall creates $2.34 mil in dead weight due to the signing bonus issued last year, netting us only a cap savings of $7.88 mill if we cut both.

    Cutting one of the 2 players certainly is possible, but I dont see them cutting both CB's being its such a thin position.
     
  3. nate

    nate Scout Team

    Joined:
    Mar 2004
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    They could also sign starks to a long term deal
     
  4. Scotty P

    Scotty P Well-Known Member Donator

    Joined:
    Aug 2011
    Messages:
    739
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Pretty sure you can only roll over 10 mil to the next year.....i might be wrong though.
     
  5. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

    Joined:
    Mar 2008
    Messages:
    4,625
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    He'll command 8-9 mill a year.... PASS!
     
  6. allsilverdreams

    allsilverdreams Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    3,092
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    48
    i didnt think there was a cap on the money being allowed to roll over to the next season.in fact i think we rolled over more than 10million this year
     
  7. matt11390

    matt11390 Starter

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    4,072
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    48
    In Dawn Aponte we trust. :bighug:
     
  8. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    16,013
    Likes Received:
    488
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Or option 3.....don't make the trade and draft at OT in round 2. Our cap is going to be horrible next year with Wallace counting 17mill all by himself which is crazy. We can't afford to take on another big contract. If Ireland makes that trade then for sure he's forgetting about the future and he's trying to win noiw no matter what. I can understand him trying to win now since we haven't won in 40 years but this is very risky. If we don't win right now then we're back to having to cut pplayers again next off season and we'll start all over again. I'd just rather draft our own OT and go from there.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  9. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is no limit. A team HAS to roll over any unused cap space, regardless of the amount, to comply with the new CBA in spending 89% over 4 years.
     
  10. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2009
    Messages:
    30,898
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Money is not an issue here.
     
  11. Dolfan4life!

    Dolfan4life! A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jun 2005
    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Option 3 - wait until after June 1st to sign the bulk of the draft class.
     
  12. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dolphins rookie cost number will be around $8M. A new contract for Albert will be cheap the first year, likely around $2M with it escalating next year. It is not a problem. Hell, we could even guarantee a roster bonus, which would come after June 1.
     
  13. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 2002
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    While its not entirely out of the realm of possibility that these guys are that stupid, I have to believe either Ireland or people in his employ have the ability to plan more than two years ahead. They probably cannot sign another play to a deal structured like Wallace's, but that doesn't mean they couldn't hand out another 50 mil deal tomorrow without destroying any future cap flexibility.
     
  14. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    16,013
    Likes Received:
    488
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Do they? Keep on mind that teams get into cap hell all the time even tho they have people working in the FO that "should" know better. It happens all the time. Teams trying to win now and they start giving out big contracts like we've done this off season.

    Ozzy rules!
     
  15. mnphinfan

    mnphinfan Lifelong Fin Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I've seen you spewing this nonsense for quite some time now. As of right now the Fins have only $93 mill comitted to salary for 2014. Sure they will need to resign Jones and possibly Cogs or Jerry and Starks or Soliai as well as next years draft class, but to say they are facing cap hell next year is blatantly false.

    I urge everyone to do yourself a favor and click on the link below to educate youself on what the Fins cap situation is for next year.

    http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/3/...gency-2013-miami-dolphins-salary-cap-2014-cap
     
  16. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 2002
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It does happen, but Miami appears to be in very good shape for at least the next couple years. I thought the Wallace contract showed a certain amount of foresight from the team's perspective. I don't know why he signed it, but I guess he figures that even if hes cut after two years he'll get another deal from someone and he'll walk away with 30 mil.

    I don't know how you see it, but from my vantage point it sure looks like this offseason was planned a couple years ago, and these signings were made with 2015 in mind. I guess it is possible all this is a random accidental occurrence......somehow I doubt it.
     
  17. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    think its closer to 100 million... and thats only with 41 players under contract. right now looking at that number without realizing that its not even close to a full roster doesnt really put it into any perspective.
     
  18. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    also... something I may have been missing from that link you provided is the assumption that only the top 51 player contracts are counted towards the cap... that is only true during the offseason. once the season starts you account for every player on your roster, so looking at the 2014 season cap situation in regards to the top 51 rule only does you justice if you are looking at the offseason aspect of it.
     
  19. mnphinfan

    mnphinfan Lifelong Fin Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Just wondering how do you get $100 mil, did the Fins add someone not on the list. The author of the post cleary breaks the contracts down as well as dead money and the total is just over $93 mil.

    Off course the roster has only 41 players. The write up is taking into consideration who the Fins may want to or may not resign. Also this years and next years draft picks would still need to be added tothe roster which will more than likely, easily get the roster to 51.

    The point of the write up is to prove to people that even with all of the FA signings this offseason the Fins won't be in cap hell next year causing them to have to either restructure or release players. Which it clearly does.
     
  20. Shaman

    Shaman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2011
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not sure I see a real issue here. You don't need the whole 6 million to sign rookies right now. You can wait until after we clear 10 million on June 1st to sign the big money rookies. In fact, the first round draft pick usually doesn't sign until near training camp anyway.

    I sincerely doubt Miami would trade for Albert without a restructured contract, and with it a fairly well structured first year cap hit.
     
  21. mnphinfan

    mnphinfan Lifelong Fin Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I may be missing something here but you state during the offseason you only count the top 51 player salaries and during the season you only are allowed 51 players on the roster. What's the difference?
     
  22. Patrick_Bateman

    Patrick_Bateman Rookie

    Joined:
    May 2006
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I like this idea
     
  23. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I use overthecap.com for my cap numbers, I can take a quick look at the breakdown and the link you provided to see where there might be a discrepancy.

    I'm pretty sure you are allowed 53 players on your active roster (not a huge difference over 51) but then you also have to take into account small hits such as practice squad, which usually takes up a million dollars over the course a season i think in cap usage.

    What people are worried about with the cap usage in the next few years isnt the fact that there isnt space now... the problem is that lets say hypothetically (as the purpose of this thread is for) we trade for and sign Albert, and give him the giant extension he's commanding. I'm not going to speculate on the numbers, but obviously its going to be a large chunk of change. Now is there room next year to make this move, absolutely, anyone saying "we are in cap hell" in that regard just doesn't understand what's going on. The issue is, if this team does not win next year, and wants to start making roster moves... now you are stuck. The dead money + the cost of the replacement of the player you cut is going to make that kind of roster maneuvering extremely difficult.

    I'm gonna take a look at the two 2014 calculations though and see if we can find a correct number (between the 93/100 in 2014 commitments.
     
  24. LandShark13

    LandShark13 A True Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 2009
    Messages:
    1,731
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Wasn't to long ago when she was involved in the snafu of cutting Porter before we had the cap space to absorb the hit. Was quite embarrassing.
     
  25. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Quickly found the problem, the author of your article doesnt include the recent signings of Vaughn Martin (and his 2.35 mill cap hit), Nate Garner (and his 1.8 hit), and then i found a guy lee robinson, with 500k... im assuming your article didnt account for the later signings after the initial FA period started.

    Right there, thats a quick almost 5 million unaccounted for taking it closer to 98 million
     
  26. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good post. A couple years ago, the PS players made $5,000 a week. It may be $6k now but, included with the last two on the 53 man roster, it will be under $2M.

    Next year, count on Wallace re-structuring his deal into a lot of guaranteed money being put into a signing bonus, which will be pro-rated over 4 years and not have the huge cap hit. Also, I doubt Soliai, Cog, and Starks will be here after this year. I expect a rookie or Samuda to take over for Cog, Soliai to be gone, and likely Starks, with a rookie in this draft taking one place, and Odrick the other. All in all, that will cut around $15M in cap space, with replacements deals.

    In no way are we headed for cap hell.
     
  27. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What you have to take into account though, is already we have roughly 5-6 of our defensive starters not on the books for the 2014 season, which obviously doesn't account into the 100 million dollars we already have tied up in 2014 commitments. What this means is 1.. we have to replace all though guys. Obviously the cheapest way to do that is to find capable starters in the draft, something we clearly havent been very good at. The other thing you have to look at is we have a monster extension (hopefully) coming for reshad jones which has to be figured in there.

    My mindset for this whole situation is, with the cap most likely not raising up any higher, with us looking like we arent going to roll over very much cap towards next year, and us having to fill in the departing players with capable replacements... you cant just go out and sign proven guys in FA like we did this year (even if some of them arent proven).

    Again, if this team wins... the cap situation should be okay, if this team as assembled now + drafting doesnt win games... we will be in cap hell. Because then the choice is either keep the players who arent helping you win games, or cut them to find better ones and bite the bullet with dead money. The potential restructuring of Wallace's deal is only guaranteed for 15 million next year, and after that its basically 10, 11.5, and 11.5.... restructuring his deal only puts off the issue that one player is eating up a ton of space, eventually that method catches up to you.. plus it sets a precedent on how you do business.

    IMO, we arent restructuring his deal.
     
  28. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And just for reference.. 41 players under contract in 2014 right now with 100 million committed. Plus, lets assume 1 million for practice squad. plus 5 for draft picks next year (just averaged 4-6 as likely number), with limited to no roll over from this year..

    You are looking at 106 million tied up in a 123 million dollar cap... with A LOT of roster holes. The way you alleviate that problem is good drafting.... adding a giant Albert $$ figure in there doesnt help one bit, and even though we can cut a few guys who dont have any dead money repercussions, the wiggle room is pretty damn tight
     
  29. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    With the new TV deals, the cap will increase next year, just a question of how much. I have seen estimates from a low of $5M to a high of $15M.

    I would bet that Wallace has already agreed to a re-structure with the signing bonus next yearwhich was not there in his current deal.
     
  30. FearTheBeard

    FearTheBeard FearTheBurke

    Joined:
    Jun 2007
    Messages:
    4,263
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You also have to take into account that the team has 11 draft picks this year. That means about 7-8 guys will be on cheap rookie deals in 2014, accounting for realistically 5 million or so. Then you've got 20 million left over and 45 under contract....it's hardly crippling and easily the toughest cap year we'll have.
     
  31. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Pretty sure the NFL TV deal kicks in 2014 which means that would have an effect on the 2015 cap numbers and not the 2014 ones.

    And as far as Mike Wallace already agreeing to a restructure..... think thats a little hasty. I dontk now it off the top of my head, but when was the last time the Dolphin's actually restructured a contract? Have we done it since Ireland has been GM? I'm not being sarcastic at all, I really just dont know the answer.

    The reason I ask is because certain front offices have certain tendency's... for example some front offices do not restructure, some dont give signing bonus, some dont give work out bonus... its just how they do business. If we havent restructured a deal under this regime... its entirely possible its not even an option for Mike
     
  32. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
  33. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
  34. CRAZYDOLFAN305

    CRAZYDOLFAN305 We Are Still Going To The SB

    Joined:
    May 2002
    Messages:
    4,944
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ireland restructured the contract of Will Allen once, and Vernon Carey, but Carey's was mostly considered as more of a paycut than anything else.
     
  35. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It is not subject to negotiation, it is what the numbers say it is, based on the CBA. However, many differ on what the initial impact will be. Based on the history of the last time this happened, the cap should jump by $20M but, many owners see it differently. It is gonna be some fun next off season.
     
  36. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hmmm i just looked up the Will Allen one and PFT used the word restructure... but then said it was a paycut.

    I'm wondering if we have done any traditional restructures where its guaranteed money into signing bonus...

    ---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

    totally right again there SOBE... just got out of donating blood, little woozy and not sure what the hell I was thinking
     
  37. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    History means nothing here. Wallace took nothing this year but, did get his guaranteed money. His deal will be re-structured next year. I would bet on it.
     
  38. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 2006
    Messages:
    15,209
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not a problem Daman. Good to talk with a cap knowledgeable Phinatic.
     
  39. The Omen

    The Omen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2012
    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seems to me by this post 41 vets + 4-6 Rookies = 45 to 47 players on the roster of 106 million cap... leaving 4-6 roster spots open and 17 million (assuming the cap limit stays the same) to spend on FA and 2014 draft class. That's without a restructure or cut. Hardly cap hell in my eyes.
     
  40. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

    Joined:
    Mar 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    + 4-6 million for rookies drafted in the 2014 draft
    + if we create some room this year by extending starks..lowering his number this year, but adding money to later cap
    + "top 5 LT" money if we sign albert, which is what this whole thread is presuming round which is going to be 7-9+ million a year possible... and POOF... 17 million is more than gone already
     

Share This Page