Did Charles Harris have a successful rookie season?

[phinfan40353]

When you have to defend 1st Rounders as needing time to develop, then apparently no one understands the criteria for a 1st Rounder.

"1st Rounders" needing time are called "Projects". Those are drafted after the 2nd round.

 

[Lovethefish]

He has some upside in growth and technique which will certainly help. Also consider an NFL offseason with vets like Wake can only help the kid

 

[Pandarilla]

Yes, in a no way...

 

[Manning]

The reason for the 40 times is about closing speed. He missed several sacks this year because he was just a little late. That goes hand on hand with him not being fast enough. One of the best GM's ever talked about him before the draft and he said that normally guys that run 4.8 don't become great players at that position in the NFL.

In college that first step looked fast because he was going up against college OT's and many of those were slow but in the NFL those LT's will not get beat as easy. You have to be faster than he is or have some amazing moves and hands. In his first year he didn't show that but we'll see what happens in his second year

Ozzy rules!!

Every player misses sacks cause there a little late but thanks for the info. And I'm sure that GM knows a whole lot more football then I do but I just don't see how 40 time matters for that position. Also I'm sure 2 guys can run an exact 40 time and the speed be distributed differently. Meaning one guy can can be faster the first 20 yards and another guy may pick up more speed towards the end but what do I know.
Also I wonder what someone like Wakes 40 time was. Just curious

 

[Danny]

Every player misses sacks cause there a little late but thanks for the info. And I'm sure that GM knows a whole lot more football then I do but I just don't see how 40 time matters for that position. Also I'm sure 2 guys can run an exact 40 time and the speed be distributed differently. Meaning one guy can can be faster the first 20 yards and another guy may pick up more speed towards the end but what do I know
Also I wonder what Wakes 40 time was. Just curious

I agree that some are faster the first 10 yards and some can keep going fast longer. I'm just telling you why the big deal is about the 40. Chances are that most DE's that have better 40 times also have better 10 yards and the 3 cones but I don't know what everyone ran for sure. Yes everyone will miss a sack from time to time because they're late. At this point what we have is what we saw his rookie year and college. That quick first step that worked in college didn't work in the NFL this season. We'll see what happens next season. Like I've said before, he works and plays hard so that helps.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[FSU Truth]

When you have to defend 1st Rounders as needing time to develop, then apparently no one understands the criteria for a 1st Rounder.

"1st Rounders" needing time are called "Projects". Those are drafted after the 2nd round.

It depends on the position. D-lineman till take little longer to develop; strength and development of pass rush moves take time.

 

[fin415]

When you have to defend 1st Rounders as needing time to develop, then apparently no one understands the criteria for a 1st Rounder.

"1st Rounders" needing time are called "Projects". Those are drafted after the 2nd round.

In the arm chair GM olympics, you're correct. For the real world, we still have players turning out to be busts taken at #1 and about 50% of the first round (off the top of my head) not living up to the teams expectations (and those are the only ones that matter).

 

[Buff]

Voted no, because you would expect from a first round DE, they would produce a bit more.

That said, I don't really think he was given as many opportunities as he would have liked, and the fans would have liked.

But there is a bit there that shows some promise.

Fast, elusive, nice spin move.

Now, just draft a left DE to replace Wake or Who ever, and it looks promising.

Sam Hubbard would be nice in the 3rd if he lasts that long.

 

[phinfan40353]

In the arm chair GM olympics, you're correct. For the real world, we still have players turning out to be busts taken at #1 and about 50% of the first round (off the top of my head) not living up to the teams expectations (and those are the only ones that matter).

I completely agree with the reality. My point is more about holding the FO accountable and the lowered expectations our fans have developed due to continued failure.

Our fans now rush to defend why a 1st Rounder is not producing. Why? Because it is us? Sorry, I don't subscribe to that philosophy.

I'm tired of accepting less from this FO, this organization, this coaching staff and these players. I'm tired of excuses. I'm tired of talk and I'm tired of accepting failure in this organization.

The fans have become complacent with failure and expectant of superiority by the Patriots. I honestly question the mettle of the players on this team. I seriously doubt we could even handle success even if we accidentally drafted well and signed well to develop a group of players who could accidentally get to the playoffs consistently.

People complain that coaches like Marvin Lewis can never win a playoff game yet he keeps getting extended. Or that Matt Ryan, until recently, could ever deliver a Super Bowl birth or, possibly, a championship.

These realities are as much cultural problems as they are talent/luck/coaching, etc.

What I see in this organization is an epic erosion of talent, knowledge, coaching, leadership, experience and vision to win. From top to bottom. Who do we have that has won? Consistently?

You can't change expectations and culture if you don't have someone leading who knows HOW to win. We've had our chances and run them out of town. We demand perfection from the likes of Johnson, Saban and Parcells. Yet we become complacent with a litany of failed coaches who have no experience or ability to lead men. Continuing to draw coaches, GMs and players from the same failed mentality.

I question if the composition of this organization knows how to win. And it has infected the fans to the point, we accept failure as an expectation.

I posted in every thread that was relevant that we NEEDED Tom Coughlin instead of Gase. That he could build this franchise. The man comes knocking on your door and wants to take on the challenge. No. We turned him away. We needed the "next BB".

Yea, that's going well. I bet the Jags are regretting getting Coughlin.

 

[hoops]

When you have to defend 1st Rounders as needing time to develop, then apparently no one understands the criteria for a 1st Rounder.

"1st Rounders" needing time are called "Projects". Those are drafted after the 2nd round.

Not when the vision is what the player will be two years down the road

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Not when the vision is what the player will be two years down the road

Agreed. Given the number of R1 picks who bust, or are backups most of their careers, or average most of their careers, waiting 1-2 years is a win. NO draft class should be judged til year 3

 

[srp1979]

For a second, I was wondering how he was able to amass 3 minutes worth of highlights........then I realized this reel played the same play several times in slow mo. lol

 

[PhinsAAA]

How funny it is to me people here pointing out his near miss sacks then complain about losing OV lmao. I truly question anyones knowledge who claims the kid had zero production his rookie season...

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I seem to remember everybody in an uproar about drafting Harris instead of Jordan Willis and Willis had one sack on the season.

That's interesting. I didn't realize there was so much praise for Jordan Willis. I stopped posting here in maybe early February, determined to avoid the typical Adjuster offseason mode, like the recent thread insisting we'd be the Browns without Tannehill. It happened early this year. Gaps in the NFL are so minuscule. That's what allows the Dolphins to physically dominate the Patriots a month ago. But during the offseason the reality is set aside and suddenly all the Adjusters come out in full force. Supporting players are the worst in the league and our assistant coaches are the worst in the league. We've been wronged...diabolically wronged.

I can't take it. Anyway, at that early February point Willis was considered somewhat stiff after not such a great performance in the Senior Bowl, where he struggled against even the moderate tackles. Long strider but without a great finishing burst.

The combine was the startling aspect. If there were over/unders on every test at the combine, I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone at any position in any year who obliterated his over/unders to the extent Jordan Willis did. He tested as a supreme athlete, even if it didn't always translate to what he looked like at Kansas State. So now there's an obvious dilemma. After the combine I expected Willis to be drafted higher than where he ended up.

I preferred TJ Watt, or that cornerback from Washington, Kevin King.

Harris wasn't on my radar because I couldn't imagine the Dolphins drafting another analytics-flunking defensive end. Once someone puts up combine numbers like Harris did, then he's going to be a tease. You can't pay any attention to pro day numbers in a friendly environment at the home school. Maybe if he's still available late. But numbers like that should eliminate from first round consideration.

Charles Harris didn't just miss making sacks or making plays because something went unfairly wrong. He barely missed because that's what his athletic ability aligns with. He lacks that extra gear, the one identified by test scores like vertical jump. I'm afraid we drafted another guy who fits Adjuster mode.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I would say yes. From the standpoint of production I expected more, but he showed improvement and I think the way teams attack Miami has to be considered as well. With the lack of speed on defense, teams know they can just get the ball out quickly to the perimeter and usually that's all they have to do.

You watch that second NE game and you can see the Patriots game plan didn't include throwing the ball down the field. That is until they realized they had to. Unfortunately that game was an aberration for Miami's defense.

Year two for Harris will be crucial to see where he goes from here. Pass rush being so important, I'd still look to bring in another pass rusher in the draft.