Does Steve Ross's Age Matter For The Dolphins?

[Aquapride1]

I get your point about paying qbs big money. I thought it was a mistake for Baltimore to sign jackson.

You consider Tua to be a better QB than Lamar Jackson? If you had a choice you would prefer Tua to be the Dolphins QB rather than Jackson?

 

[Bob512]

You consider Tua to be a better QB than Lamar Jackson? If you had a choice you would prefer Tua to be the Dolphins QB rather than Jackson?

Jackson is a good QB....but different. Tua is a much better passer of the football and Jackson is much more athletic and has that running ability. I think both can be very effective and both have their challenges and you can win with either

 

[Highzenga]

You consider Tua to be a better QB than Lamar Jackson? If you had a choice you would prefer Tua to be the Dolphins QB rather than Jackson?

Yes 100%. Tua is far and away a better passer. Lamar is good but relies on his athleticism too much. He will never win a Super Bowl

 

[Krush]

Steve Ross is not your typical bad owner. He has tried to win, as opposed to using the franchise as his personal piggy bank, like many owners in sports tend to do (for example Loria with the Marlins). He has spared no expense, neither payroll nor team facilities. The just released NFLPA players survey shined a very favorable light on him.

However, in his tenure here as owner, without rehashing all the gory details, he has made a lot of poor decisions when it comes to the coaches and GMs he has hired, as well as some other organizational mistakes.

But, at least, his goal really does seem to have been to win a Super Bowl. Spent the money to try and do it, tanked (poorly) to try and do it, and fired coaches and GMs to try and do it.

Now, is winning a Super Bowl still Steve Ross's goal?

He is 83 years old. He knows the clock is ticking. That is one of the reasons why he is now considering selling a piece of the team.

Is it possible at this point, Steve Ross just wants to not suck again, and go through the pain and embarrassment of another rebuild, that could potentially fail as well, and another wash, rinse, repeat? Is that now Ross's goal for the organization - maintain status quo, put a respectable product on the field, and be done with it? Or alternatively, does he believe what is here is Super Bowl caliber stuff for the next 5-10 years?

It sounds like Tua is going to get his big deal. Do not kid yourself, when it comes to 5 years and $250mm, this is an ownership decision.

The million dollar question is what internally do they really think about Tua? Do they believe he is a Super Bowl winning QB, or do they believe they will be "fine" with Tua back there, and put a decent product on the field, but never truly be a great team, especially if Tua takes up a big portion of the salary cap?

Nobody knows the answer to this question.

The question is, does Tua get this deal because they believe he is that good, or at his age Ross does not want to go through the whole process of finding another QB and stinking while you try and do it, and then hearing everyone complain about what a bad owner he is all over again?

This is just food for thought. I do not know the answer. However, I do think the calculus on this one is quite complex, and there may be more things at play than people realize.

To be clear, nowhere did I say Tua is a bad QB. Nowhere did I say they believe they cannot win a Super Bowl with him getting 5 and $250mm. I am just raising the question about what they really think (as opposed to what they say, because of course when they give him the deal they will tell us he is the guy to win us a SB), and what will really drive their (which in this case will ultimately be Ross) decision making?

what position and number he is on the field?

 

[Krush]

Jackson is a good QB....but different. Tua is a much better passer of the football and Jackson is much more athletic and has that running ability. I think both can be very effective and both have their challenges and you can win with either

Tua, because he is a QB first and facilitate for others first, Jackson though is a better athlete but tries to implement himself in the run game before he implement others, If Jackson was on this team it would be scary, but Tyreek will become less effective because Jackson is a great passer of the football.

 

[Mello Yello]

Considering that running QBs like Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton and Jalen Hurts have all reached the Super Bowl in the past few years I find it easy to believe that someone the caliber of Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen could do the same.

Colin Kaepernick posted a 98 passer rating in the 2012 regular season and a 101 rating in the Playoffs. He lost 34-31 in the Super Bowl. It was very close.

Cam Newton posted a 99 passer rating in the 2015 regular season and a 113 rating in the Playoffs before losing badly in the Super Bowl to an elite Broncos D. In his defense, Newton did help the Panthers to a 15-1 regular season record that year as league MVP.

Jalen Hurts posted a 102 passer rating in the 2022 regular season and a 97 rating in the Playoffs. He lost 38-35 in the Super Bowl. It was very close, too.


>> At some point, one of these running QBs is going to not just get there but end up winning the SB whether that's Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen or someone yet to reach their peak.

In fact, Russell Wilson averaged about 700-yds rushing per year between 2013-2014 so you might even say it's already happened.



For Tua Tagovailoa to win as a pocket passer with limited mobility he's going to need to develop an ability to be more clutch in line with what we've seen from Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning who all played some of their best football in the biggest moments.

However, a careful study of Tua's history indicates that he really doesn't perform like that likely stemming from how he operates in a progressive, non-dropback-style of playing QB which certainly emphasizes his strengths but also tends to sputter and become unreliable against better defenses.

At best, Tua's been solid on the big stage but often ends up on the losing side compared with opponents who can offer up a good D and a comparable QB. We saw that continuously in college in his big games against Georgia (2018), Clemson (2018) and LSU (2019).

He was blown out by Georgia in 2018 (160-yds passing & 2 INTs) and subsequently lost to Clemson a few weeks later (2 more INTs) and was beaten by LSU in 2019 in the only big game Bama had that year. We don't really speak of his time under Flores for much the same reason--no big accomplishments--and now here we are complaining about a lack of big-game wins in 2023 under McDaniel.

The trend is pretty obvious with Tua at this point. That weird--dare I say lucky--comeback in OT during the 2017 National Championship was probably more the exception rather than the rule with the look-one-way, chuck-it-the-other TD in overtime. He's never really replicated that success and at the end of the day the NFL is about heroic QB play.

Define it however you want but Tua has got to find a way to be more clutch.


...meanwhile, the NFL is finding more and more of these elusive, mobile QBs at the top of the W/L column.

If you don't have an elite guy like Mahomes or Burrow who are as clutch as they come, you'd better have a mobile QB like Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts or Lamar Jackson to create the opportunities by himself.

I don't know how many times we have to see better teams like the 49ers come up short to get the message that even the most complete "team" is still lacking unless they play absolutely perfect football. The Titans & Lions are other teams that've come up similarly short. Those teams reached higher peaks than we have with better records & division titles and even they can't get it done. The one smart thing they did was avoid the big QB contract. The 49ers actively sought to replace Garoppolo and the Titans never fell in love with Ryan Tannehill.

 

[phinsforlife]

Considering that running QBs like Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton and Jalen Hurts have all reached the Super Bowl in the past few years I find it easy to believe that someone the caliber of Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen could do the same.

Colin Kaepernick posted a 98 passer rating in the 2012 regular season and a 101 rating in the Playoffs. He lost 34-31 in the Super Bowl. It was very close.

Cam Newton posted a 99 passer rating in the 2015 regular season and a 113 rating in the Playoffs before losing badly in the Super Bowl to an elite Broncos D. In his defense, Newton did help the Panthers to a 15-1 regular season record that year as league MVP.

Jalen Hurts posted a 102 passer rating in the 2022 regular season and a 97 rating in the Playoffs. He lost 38-35 in the Super Bowl. It was very close, too.


>> At some point, one of these running QBs is going to not just get there but end up winning the SB whether that's Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen or someone yet to reach their peak.

In fact, Russell Wilson averaged about 700-yds rushing per year between 2013-2014 so you might even say it's already happened.



For Tua Tagovailoa to win as a pocket passer with limited mobility he's going to need to develop an ability to be more clutch in line with what we've seen from Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning who all played some of their best football in the biggest moments.

However, a careful study of Tua's history indicates that he really doesn't perform like that likely stemming from how he operates in a progressive, non-dropback-style of playing QB which certainly emphasizes his strengths but also tends to sputter and become unreliable against better defenses.

At best, Tua's been solid on the big stage but often ends up on the losing side compared with opponents who can offer up a good D and a comparable QB. We saw that continuously in college in his big games against Georgia (2018), Clemson (2018) and LSU (2019).

He was blown out by Georgia in 2018 (160-yds passing & 2 INTs) and subsequently lost to Clemson a few weeks later (2 more INTs) and was beaten by LSU in 2019 in the only big game Bama had that year. We don't really speak of his time under Flores for much the same reason--no big accomplishments--and now here we are complaining about a lack of big-game wins in 2023 under McDaniel.

The trend is pretty obvious with Tua at this point. That weird--dare I say lucky--comeback in OT during the 2017 National Championship was probably more the exception rather than the rule with the look-one-way, chuck-it-the-other TD in overtime. He's never really replicated that success and at the end of the day the NFL is about heroic QB play.

Define it however you want but Tua has got to find a way to be more clutch.


...meanwhile, the NFL is finding more and more of these elusive, mobile QBs at the top of the W/L column.

If you don't have an elite guy like Mahomes or Burrow who are as clutch as they come, you'd better have a mobile QB like Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts or Lamar Jackson to create to opportunities by himself.

I don't know how many times we have to see better teams like the 49ers come up short to get the message that even the most complete "team" is still lacking unless they play absolutely perfect football. The Titans & Lions are other teams that've come up similarly short. Those teams reached higher peaks than we have with better records & division titles and even they can't get it done. The one smart thing they did was avoid the big QB contract. The 49ers actively sought to replace Garoppolo and the Titans never fell in love with Ryan Tannehill.

great analysis should be its own thread imo!

 

[The Ghost]

Considering that running QBs like Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton and Jalen Hurts have all reached the Super Bowl in the past few years I find it easy to believe that someone the caliber of Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen could do the same.

Colin Kaepernick posted a 98 passer rating in the 2012 regular season and a 101 rating in the Playoffs. He lost 34-31 in the Super Bowl. It was very close.

Cam Newton posted a 99 passer rating in the 2015 regular season and a 113 rating in the Playoffs before losing badly in the Super Bowl to an elite Broncos D. In his defense, Newton did help the Panthers to a 15-1 regular season record that year as league MVP.

Jalen Hurts posted a 102 passer rating in the 2022 regular season and a 97 rating in the Playoffs. He lost 38-35 in the Super Bowl. It was very close, too.


>> At some point, one of these running QBs is going to not just get there but end up winning the SB whether that's Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen or someone yet to reach their peak.

In fact, Russell Wilson averaged about 700-yds rushing per year between 2013-2014 so you might even say it's already happened.



For Tua Tagovailoa to win as a pocket passer with limited mobility he's going to need to develop an ability to be more clutch in line with what we've seen from Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning who all played some of their best football in the biggest moments.

However, a careful study of Tua's history indicates that he really doesn't perform like that likely stemming from how he operates in a progressive, non-dropback-style of playing QB which certainly emphasizes his strengths but also tends to sputter and become unreliable against better defenses.

At best, Tua's been solid on the big stage but often ends up on the losing side compared with opponents who can offer up a good D and a comparable QB. We saw that continuously in college in his big games against Georgia (2018), Clemson (2018) and LSU (2019).

He was blown out by Georgia in 2018 (160-yds passing & 2 INTs) and subsequently lost to Clemson a few weeks later (2 more INTs) and was beaten by LSU in 2019 in the only big game Bama had that year. We don't really speak of his time under Flores for much the same reason--no big accomplishments--and now here we are complaining about a lack of big-game wins in 2023 under McDaniel.

The trend is pretty obvious with Tua at this point. That weird--dare I say lucky--comeback in OT during the 2017 National Championship was probably more the exception rather than the rule with the look-one-way, chuck-it-the-other TD in overtime. He's never really replicated that success and at the end of the day the NFL is about heroic QB play.

Define it however you want but Tua has got to find a way to be more clutch.


...meanwhile, the NFL is finding more and more of these elusive, mobile QBs at the top of the W/L column.

If you don't have an elite guy like Mahomes or Burrow who are as clutch as they come, you'd better have a mobile QB like Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts or Lamar Jackson to create to opportunities by himself.

I don't know how many times we have to see better teams like the 49ers come up short to get the message that even the most complete "team" is still lacking unless they play absolutely perfect football. The Titans & Lions are other teams that've come up similarly short. Those teams reached higher peaks than we have with better records & division titles and even they can't get it done. The one smart thing they did was avoid the big QB contract. The 49ers actively sought to replace Garoppolo and the Titans never fell in love with Ryan Tannehill.

Your posts continue to be stellar. You need to post more often.