Dolphins blew it with passing on Herbert | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins blew it with passing on Herbert

Herbert is beating Tua in every measurable category with the exception of INTs (though Herbert's 22:6 TD:INT ratio is pretty damn impressive over 9 games).

Herbert is beating Tua in Yards per game, yards per attempt, completion percent, TDs per game, sacks per game, Rating, QBR, rushing yards per game, rushing yards per attempt, rushing TDs per game.
Tua may not have any INTs, but not because he's good... he just got lucky. He's had several balls that should have been intercepted but were dropped, and at least one INT that was negated by a defensive penalty. Sooner or later, defenders are going to hold on to those INTs. And, because Tua is smaller (can't see as well over the d-line) and not as athletic (Old Man Fitz is a better runner than Tua) as many other QBs, I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a turnover machine.
 
I was a Herbert fan for several years, and am not surprised he is doing well. But it's way too early to determine who will be the better career QB. I thought Herbert was the better prospect, and the drawbacks so many faux analysts saw simply do not exist. Guys like Chris Simms and Paul Bermeister were spot on regarding Herbert--who simply played in a bad offense in Oregon. Tua played in a good offense surrounded by elite talent literally everywhere. In the NFL, every team has decent talent and no team is stocked full of dominant players. Defenses are far more complex and punish even the smallest defects.

But both QB's have shown flashes of becoming top QB's. Tua's strength was his decision making, and we're seeing that play out as he has been very responsible with the ball. Herbert's strength was his physical makeup, and we're seeing that play out with laser outs and defense-threatening runs. Both look good. If Tua becomes the next Drew Brees, we'll be ecstatic. It's about whether the Dolphins made the Dolphins better, and so far, there's a lot of reason to be optimistic about Tua. It doesn't look like we'll have a shot at Trevor Lawrence, so this one is a no-brainer, we need to develop and support Tua. The future looks bright.

Fins up!
Good post.

2020 draft class will be like the '84 one or '04. All three of Burrow, Tua and Herbert look like potential franchise QB's to me.
 
We'll see but did you see Brady against the Saints? He was horrific but came back the next week. I was surprised by some of Tua´s misses yesterday, and by the Oline in particular but I'm not ready to give up on him just yet.
Did you just compare Tua to Brady? fair comparison... lol
 
The problem is both Herbert and Burrow have passed the eye test and Tua hasn't yet. I think it's safe to say both Herbert and Burrow will be very good to great QB's in this league and the jury is still out on Tua. Fair or not, Tua will always be judged against Herbert because the Dolphins had the choice to draft either one of them. If Herbert goes on to be a great QB and Tua doesn't then the Dolphins obviously drafted the wrong QB.
 
We will see if Tua turns out better than Herbert like everyone claims here in the future. But when you are all wrong, and you will be, I want to see you admit it next year.
Oh, so the guy who started 4 full years in college and was able to participate in full capacity during the offseason is playing better than a junior who came out with only a season and a half of college ball under his belt and missed most of his first NFL offseason?

The expectations on this kid are so absurd. last week we celebrated the 1 year anniversary of an injury people thought he may never come back from. Most of us were fine with giving him a redshirt year. Now he starts, doesn't look that great ( even though we're winning) and people are our here talking about "we missed guy's it's over". I don't understand how you can't look at this situation and rationalize Tua not being good enough.


Herbert
Keenan Allen 605 rec - 7240 yds ( tactician of a route runner, creates space, vet who knows the game)
Mike Williams ( 1st rnd 7th overall) 132 rec 2263 yds, ( phenomenal deep ball threat wins 50/50's)
Hunter Henry ( 2nd rnd picked 35 overall) 177 rec, 2144 yds ( solid blocker and above-average receiving threat)

Total- 914 rec, 11,647 yds

Burrow
Aj Green 637 rec, 9264 yds, ( Vet presence that has clearly helped this receiver room, knows the game inside and out, while old still performs)
Tyler Boyd ( 2nd rnd 55th overall) 311rec , 3612 yds, ( Another route running tactician (reminds me so much of Keenan) , creates space)
Tee Higgins (2 rnd picked 33 overall) 43 red, 629 yds, ( Outstanding rookie who has been consistently getting open )

Total- 991 rec, 13,505 yds

Tua
Devante Parker 279 rec 3942 yds, (Wins jump balls, poor route runner who has underperformed to this point in his career)
Jakeem Grant ( 6th rnd 186 overall) 77rec, 876 yds, (Has flashed as an underneath threat, unreliable hands, gets bodied by virtually all CBS)
Mike Gesicki ( 2nd rnd 44th overall) 101 rec, 1106 (Has flashed his enormous ability, poor blocker, has been inconsistent )

Total - 457 rec 5,924 yds

After looking at this it starts to get a better idea of how green our offense as a whole really is. I didn't even include the fact that our O-line has 3 rookies starting on it. Rookies lean on receivers to get going in the NFL as comfort blankets and start broadening out across the group. Take a look at Herbert with Keenan, he's getting about 11 targets a game or Burrow with Boyd who is averaging around 9 targets a game.

Tua NEEDS a guy who can create separation quickly (i.e. Keenan Allen, Tyler Boyd, Michael Thomas, Stephon Diggs, Robert Woods, AJ Brown etc.) that can take advantage of ball placement and eat up YAC. We sort of saw this developing with Preston before he, unfortunately, went down.

Final statement- Relax, things will start working out, Tua is playing let's be happy about that first.
 
Honestly I agree with you OP~ given the small sample that we've seen so far, I would have take Herbert over Tua. Of course there is so much to be seen from these two so this could change, but as of right now that would be my pick.. I also don't contribute these wins and losses solely on the Qb play. Defensive and special teams play have been carrying this team to victory the past few weeks.
We didn't have that luxury yesterday so we needed the Qb to step up and deliver and well.... Yeah we all saw how that played out.
 
Agree but I think Tua is going to need a good 6 to 8 games before he completely trusts himself. That injury and not being able to train and just doing rehab is a big thing. He just more or less had his first 4 preseason games having first team reps for 5 weeks. I don’t know how SD did there preseason this year but it wouldn’t surprise me if JH got more time with the first team than Tua did.
Agree to the extent that 4 games, under the best circumstances, is too soon to make final judgements, and these circumstances were about the worst possible.

The rest (Herbert got more snaps, rehab held him back, etc) are just excuses. If you want to play that card, Tua shouldn't have been deemed 100%, ready to go. Can't have it both ways, IMO.

All these guys were learning "virtually" for months, including Tua.

I'm not jumping off the Tua train. I just hate hypocrisy.
 
I know its early to access them but... you can do an eye test.

Herbert is a tall athletic strong armed playmaker. He looks like he belongs and can be a great QB than can win games and not just manage them.

Tua is a soft arm, small, non athletic accurate passer that was surrounded with talent at Alabama. He is a game manager/scheme QB at best.

As far as relievers not getting open, its half Tuas fault. He throws a softer ball which takes longer to get to the receiver. This results in DBs getting to the ball and everything is going to be contested.

I'm welcome to criticism, but please back it up with facts and not emotions.
Said it yourself in the first line. Too early for this thread
 
I know its early to access them but... you can do an eye test.

Herbert is a tall athletic strong armed playmaker. He looks like he belongs and can be a great QB than can win games and not just manage them.

Tua is a soft arm, small, non athletic accurate passer that was surrounded with talent at Alabama. He is a game manager/scheme QB at best.

As far as relievers not getting open, its half Tuas fault. He throws a softer ball which takes longer to get to the receiver. This results in DBs getting to the ball and everything is going to be contested.

I'm welcome to criticism, but please back it up with facts and not emotions.
I think Herbert was the Best QB in the draft. I think he will prove my point by year 3.
 
A lot of folks not happy with Tua today. He's a good pick and it's good to have him.
 
We'll see but did you see Brady against the Saints? He was horrific but came back the next week. I was surprised by some of Tua´s misses yesterday, and by the Oline in particular but I'm not ready to give up on him just yet.
Yeahhhhhh

When you have so many ring you need both hands, you get an automatic huge pass for a bad game.

If we're going to do whataboutism, at least make it something that isn't laughable.
 
Honestly I agree with you OP~ given the small sample that we've seen so far, I would have take Herbert over Tua. Of course there is so much to be seen from these two so this could change, but as of right now that would be my pick.. I also don't contribute these wins and losses solely on the Qb play. Defensive and special teams play have been carrying this team to victory the past few weeks.
We didn't have that luxury yesterday so we needed the Qb to step up and deliver and well.... Yeah we all saw how that played out.
You think Charger fans would swap Herbert for Tua at this point?

Good post. And of course -- absolutely NOTHING has been proven definitive at this time.

But... Early indications tend to have some degree of validity.
 
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