Dolphins have targeted Hartline and Clemons as must re-signs | Page 11 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins have targeted Hartline and Clemons as must re-signs

If we're going to be stupid enough to give Hartline close to his asking price, may as well just spend it all on Wallace AND Jennings.
 
I'd sign up right now to lock em both down, especially Clemons. I have had the feeling this entire time that it's either him or Smith, and I'd rather have him.
 
Nublar7 said:
Incorrect, I think he is a good player that is a better fit as a #2, but not a very good player who should be a #1. I would like to have him back on the team but never once did I say what I think his price of re-signing should be. You are probably assuming that I want him back for the "rumored" price of $6 million a year. If that is correct on your part, you are putting words in my mouth. I don't think he is worth $6 million a year and I don't think he will get that number from the Dolphins. Those numbers are likely starting numbers that will eventually come down. Soliai was looking for $10 million a year last offseason and ended up signing for $6 million a year. Never trust those "rumored" numbers as being the end all, they are not.
Your post wasn't about Hartline, it was about Tony Sparano and Chad Henne. Which is not the topic of this thread. Two different opinions on two completely different subjects have nothing to do with each other. My taste in movies or politics doesn't dictate my opinion on whether Brian Hartline should be re-signed. My opinion whether current or past on Joe Philbin, Ryan Tannehill, Tony Sparano, Cameron Wake, Chad Henne, Sean Smith, Paul Soliai, etc. has nothing to do with my opinion on Brian Hartline. They are ALL completely different people and situations that should be addressed separately.

I pulled into this thread your previous opinion on Brian Hartline, which I just checked the title of this thread again and is the SUBJECT of this thread. Whether it offended you that I pulled a relevant past opinion on the thread topic is your individual problem to sort through. It wasn't a personal attack or anything ridiculous like that. I apologize to you CK if a past opinion you had was offensive to you. Deeply sorry.

Lets try to get this thread back on track.
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there is something about this post, can't quite put my finger on it... but I have the sudden urge to go watch phoenix marie do her thing.
 
well if we're really putting thought into it, I'm going gianna michaels all day... but for some reason phoenix was the first one to pop in my head tonight...

post script... should be noted that I would not kick sasha gray out of bed.
 
some here in this thread hit the nail on the head...what real upside is there with hartline??? that one year of chemistry would matter more to me with tannehill if the guy got in the end zone was a red zone target and provided rac...what you see is pretty much what you are gonna always get with hartline...he's never gonna score even 8 tds a season cause he's not a win physical wr or go up in the air and win a 50/50 ball guy...he's a b/t the 20's guy primarily unless you just blow a coverage like the zona game this year...and he'll beat up on bad corners with his route running and his saviness...i think we are getting about what his ceiling is frankly...if you ever get 5 tds out of him in a season consider it overachieving...
 
hooshoops said:
some here in this thread hit the nail on the head...what real upside is there with hartline??? that one year of chemistry would matter more to me with tannehill if the guy got in the end zone was a red zone target and provided rac...what you see is pretty much what you are gonna always get with hartline...he's never gonna score even 8 tds a season cause he's not a win physical wr or go up in the air and win a 50/50 ball guy...he's a b/t the 20's guy primarily unless you just blow a coverage like the zona game this year...and he'll beat up on bad corners with his route running and his saviness...i think we are getting about what his ceiling is frankly...if you ever get 5 tds out of him in a season consider it overachieving...
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The "upside" here is Ireland proving that he can hit on a draft pick. They've apparently made up their minds that Sean Smith is leaving, so losing Clemmons and Hartline would mean that the entire 2009 draft class would be gone. Since the two of them are cheaper than Smith, they are the logical choices. Clemmons isn't good enough to just keep him, so if that means overpaying Hartline, so be it.
 
Valandui said:
The "upside" here is Ireland proving that he can hit on a draft pick. They've apparently made up their minds that Sean Smith is leaving, so losing Clemmons and Hartline would mean that the entire 2009 draft class would be gone. Since the two of them are cheaper than Smith, they are the logical choices. Clemmons isn't good enough to just keep him, so if that means overpaying Hartline, so be it.
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well that would be a really bad way to go about things...
 
hooshoops said:
well that would be a really bad way to go about things...
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Definitely. I could be talking out of my butt, but it could be partially true as well. If Jake long walks, all of the 2008 class is gone. If he were to lose the whole 2009 class the same year even though he could get upgrades for the same money or cheaper, it doesn't say a lot a of good about his drafting ability. I'm sorry, I mean Bill Parcells' drafting ability.
 
Valandui said:
Definitely. I could be talking out of my butt, but it could be partially true as well. If Jake long walks, all of the 2008 class is gone. If he were to lose the whole 2009 class the same year even though he could get upgrades for the same money or cheaper, it doesn't say a lot a of good about his drafting ability. I'm sorry, I mean Bill Parcells' drafting ability.
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This is a concern i ranted about during the season. People love to blame Cam Cameron for the 1-15 season. For good reason, he was the coach that year and made the team worse then it already was. But the foundation for that season was already in place. We walked out of the '02 and '03 drafts with no one. Players that should have been in the prime of their career, 26-28 years old, were no where to be found. We had exceptionally young players and old players a year away from retirement. That was already a ticking time bomb, but add on injuries? It all added up and destroyed us.

Now we've made the same mistake. Its inexcusable that we busted on the entire '08 draft, despite picking at the top of every round and having 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. We had 4 picks in the first 3 rounds in '09 and busted on 3 of those 4 players, with Sean Smith walking out the door. We had 4 picks in the first 3 rounds this past year and one is already looking to be a bust. But hey, we have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds this year, that extra pick makes all the difference! We are on the way up!!1!

We are only as good as our front office is. For all hilarious defense of Ireland, i have never heard anyone suggest he will be a special general manager. The next Ron Wolf or Ozzie Newsome. Why have we given this many chances to a guy who's upside is "good"?
 
Are you guys still trying to convince people of something with no new evidence? like if you keep saying it then you will magically convince all of Finheaven that they have all been uniformed for 5 years? Yes, everyone should have listened to you because you have an unprecedented insight into a situation that nobody else could possibly have. You should pat yourself on the back and revel in how cool you were when you told everyone they were wrong on the internet.

Keep on fighting the good fight....:deadhorse:
 
Spesh said:
This is a concern i ranted about during the season. People love to blame Cam Cameron for the 1-15 season. For good reason, he was the coach that year and made the team worse then it already was. But the foundation for that season was already in place. We walked out of the '02 and '03 drafts with no one. Players that should have been in the prime of their career, 26-28 years old, were no where to be found. We had exceptionally young players and old players a year away from retirement. That was already a ticking time bomb, but add on injuries? It all added up and destroyed us.

Now we've made the same mistake. Its inexcusable that we busted on the entire '08 draft, despite picking at the top of every round and having 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. We had 4 picks in the first 3 rounds in '09 and busted on 3 of those 4 players, with Sean Smith walking out the door. We had 4 picks in the first 3 rounds this past year and one is already looking to be a bust. But hey, we have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds this year, that extra pick makes all the difference! We are on the way up!!1!

We are only as good as our front office is. For all hilarious defense of Ireland, i have never heard anyone suggest he will be a special general manager. The next Ron Wolf or Ozzie Newsome. Why have we given this many chances to a guy who's upside is "good"?
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You've got in all wrong, if it wasn't for all those bad picks and signings over the past 5 years we wouldn't be in the amazing salary cap situation we find ourselves in today, you can't have it both ways...
 
Spesh said:
This is a concern i ranted about during the season. People love to blame Cam Cameron for the 1-15 season. For good reason, he was the coach that year and made the team worse then it already was. But the foundation for that season was already in place. We walked out of the '02 and '03 drafts with no one. Players that should have been in the prime of their career, 26-28 years old, were no where to be found. We had exceptionally young players and old players a year away from retirement. That was already a ticking time bomb, but add on injuries? It all added up and destroyed us.

Now we've made the same mistake. Its inexcusable that we busted on the entire '08 draft, despite picking at the top of every round and having 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. We had 4 picks in the first 3 rounds in '09 and busted on 3 of those 4 players, with Sean Smith walking out the door. We had 4 picks in the first 3 rounds this past year and one is already looking to be a bust. But hey, we have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds this year, that extra pick makes all the difference! We are on the way up!!1!

We are only as good as our front office is. For all hilarious defense of Ireland, i have never heard anyone suggest he will be a special general manager. The next Ron Wolf or Ozzie Newsome. Why have we given this many chances to a guy who's upside is "good"?
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This.

No one drafted in the past five years by this regime has been resigned. No one. With Sean Smith seemingly headed out the door and the odds on Hartline resigning perhaps even, perhaps less, it looks as though that streak (or **** stain, depending on how you look at it) might very well continue.

Letting players you've drafted to fill holes leave in free agency because they're not good enough to resign and then drafting new players to fill those same holes who you also don't resign is like trying to dig out of a hole by throwing the dirt up in the air and letting it fall back into the hole again.

It's a whole lot of going nowhere fast. You need to be able to draft and sign players worth resigning. That's the error. Because I can't get pissed off about not giving Smith or Hartline big money. They're not worth it. But dude, why did we end up with them in the first place? Draft better. And don't trade away the talented players you do draft (like Vontae).
 
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