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DW set off

Well, I remember a few years back he did the samething during training camp. He basically said if the season was to start then, the team was not ready to play Detroit. And we all know what happened in that game..
 
DeDolfan said:
I'll be short lived tho. I doubt it'll be a change for the long haul.
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............and there's that loveable pessimism that always seems to rear it's ugly head on this board time and time again.
 
DeDolfan said:
it's pretty simple. The only thing the players say about him is that "he's a nice guy". While that is all fine and dandy, it doesn't make for good hC credentials normally. Guys like that don't command the "respect" they need to be truly effective. How many times has he ever really gone off on his players anywhere? it's not often he does and is just an exception rather than the rule. The guy doesn't have to be an absolute total prick, I don't mean that but he's not one of the no BS types like Parcells, BB and such. Now while this "new tactic" is good, it won't last cuz that's just not the way he is. That is why we even heard about it cuz it's so "un-Dave-like"! ;)
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I got two words for you .................. Bill Belichik <----- judges, ruling on the spelling.

BB isn't a rant and raver........ he's no Tom Coughlin..........he's no Vince Lombardi. I'm not saying Wanny is anywhere near his level, but you don't have to be a loon on the field in order to get the troops fired up all the time. And no offense but if our guys had to go through an offseason like ones the aforementioned coaches put on, well they would demand trades or find all kinds of ways to p*ssy out IMO. We don't have those kinds of guys on our team who follow a field general around like a grip of weathered soldiers.
 
Count me squarely in the pessimists camp.

I wont believe ANY of the "fired up" stuff until he shows he knows how to change a gameplan midgame and leaves the way-too-conservative-play-it-safe mentality and the memories of Chicago and two years ago in the past. Until he proves it, then I wont buy anything that Dave spews out of his piehole.
 
DeDolfan said:
And Vermeil is a more strict disciplinarian also. The reason I go "pfff" is because of Wanny's own track record. That tells me enough and while I could be wrong about it, the "odds are" that I won't be. BB bombed out in Cleveland but learned from his own mishaps and corrected course. Wanny has not shown that ability and is running the same trend as in Chicago. It's nice to be all optimistic and such about Wanny but IMO, I won't be until he demonstrates any ability that he'll do better and so far he hasn't. I'm afraid alot of ppls "blind optimism" is due to the fact that he's no longer the GM, has not control over personell and all he has to do is coach. While that may be true, his GM duties in the past has never interferred with his game day coaching duties. Wanny the GM had nothing to do with Wanny the HC sitting on a meager halftime lead and turning it over to the D instead of going for the jugular. These things, IMO, will not change by itself and altho minute, perhaps, are often the difference of being just a good team and a true champion. But Wanny knew that his back was against the wall the last 2 seasons and the fact that Huizenga extended him a couple more years does not send the roght message in that regard. But do you believe in miracles?
That's what it will take. For me to think anything differently about Wanny, he has to get us to the AFC game at a bare minimum.
But, no. i don't know "who" Dave Wannstedt is, I just know what he does. BIG difference!! ;)
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Please.............Dick Vermeil??????? The man cries on national television. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: Ever seen Wanny do that???? If Dave were to ever start bauling like a little b*tch the way Vermeil does, Wanny haters would've taken their hatred of the man to new heights.

The ugly truth my friend is that Wanny the GM has everything to do with Wanny the HC. Whether you want to except it or not, playing time and output are in direct correlation to who's getting on the field and who's catching touchdowns or what plays are being called to whom. That's how dynamically difficult sports have gotten in this day and age. I'm not saying Wanny is trying to sabotage seasons to prevent payouts, but remember he's thinking with two personalities here. Now that he only has to think with one, he can soley concentrate on coaching with no concerns whatsoever over play contracts and payroll.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't Wanny coaching for his job LAST YEAR? :confused:

I believe he was. Hence the shock and surprise when he not only kept his job, but got an extension. Did last year bring about a different type of Wanny? Not that I saw. So if he is in the same boat this year, fighting for his job, why believe he will change?

The biggest change I see is that he is no longer GM. Is that going to mean a fundamental change in how Dave prepares the team and adjusts gameplans? I tend to think not. When things get tense, Wanny will be the same coach he has always been.

I hope he proves me and every other doubter wrong, I really do. Just don't ask me to believe that one "hissy fit" thrown by Dave means a Super Bowl run. Okay?
 
Dave knows his butts on the line. About time he gets pissed off and starts yelling. I hope it does the team good.
 
enigmatics said:
Please.............Dick Vermeil??????? The man cries on national television. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: Ever seen Wanny do that???? If Dave were to ever start bauling like a little b*tch the way Vermeil does, Wanny haters would've taken their hatred of the man to new heights.

The ugly truth my friend is that Wanny the GM has everything to do with Wanny the HC. Whether you want to except it or not, playing time and output are in direct correlation to who's getting on the field and who's catching touchdowns or what plays are being called to whom. That's how dynamically difficult sports have gotten in this day and age. I'm not saying Wanny is trying to sabotage seasons to prevent payouts, but remember he's thinking with two personalities here. Now that he only has to think with one, he can soley concentrate on coaching with no concerns whatsoever over play contracts and payroll.
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See, that's just the thing. Vermeil does get emotional while wanny does not. The fact that wanny was the GM is still a pretty lmae excuse, iMO. But that's all it is, an excuse. Being a GM still has nothing to do with game day coaching. Being the GM didn't cause him to go conservative with a small lead and such. And if his "GM duties" affetcted him so much that he couldn't focus on the game, then his problems are alot deeper than we figured. it's not his gM duties that failed him. He's had enough talent to get better each yr despite the fact that he could've done even a better jog as a GM. He's simply failed more as a HC than he did as a gM. He just can not "get the most" out of his players when he needs to.
 
DeDolfan said:
See, that's just the thing. Vermeil does get emotional while wanny does not. The fact that wanny was the GM is still a pretty lmae excuse, iMO. But that's all it is, an excuse. Being a GM still has nothing to do with game day coaching. Being the GM didn't cause him to go conservative with a small lead and such. And if his "GM duties" affetcted him so much that he couldn't focus on the game, then his problems are alot deeper than we figured. it's not his gM duties that failed him. He's had enough talent to get better each yr despite the fact that he could've done even a better jog as a GM. He's simply failed more as a HC than he did as a gM. He just can not "get the most" out of his players when he needs to.
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You still did nothing to prove that being a GM and a coach have no affect on each other. I am now going to list to you some coaches prior to Wanny who were hybrid GM/Coaches

Jimmy Johnson (Dolphins) ........no longer coaching, ended in disaster
Mike Shanahan (Broncos) ........ dragging his franchise through the mud with bad signings, definately dropping off from the Elway era
Tom Coughlin (Jags)............... got run out of town, Jags completely fell apart
Dick Vermeil (St. Louis)........... won a Superbowl
Dan Reeves (Atlanta)............. Look what happened when Michael Vick went down, prior to Vick he still did nothing.
Dennis Erickson (Seattle)........ Got run out of town
Bobby Ross (Detroit) ............. Got run out of town
Bill Cowher (Pitt, not GM, but had personnel say-so) ........... remind me again where this franchise is at?
Butch Davis(Cleveland, not GM, but has personnel say-so).... again remind me of where this franchise is at?

The only semi-successful hybrid's have been Bill Parcells (who hasn't won an SB since the 80's), Dick Vermiel (who won it with the Rams, but continues to ignore defensive needs on the Chiefs), Andy Reid (been close, but finally broke out of ignoring his offensive needs), and Mike Sherman (his team's been up and down, middle tier playoff team with no SB since he's been).

In a contract era like we have in the NFL now, GM's decisions definately translate down onto the field whether it be from a playmaking standpoint or the player who's actually out there on the field trying to make those plays. Ever considered the fact that Wanny didn't take the leash off because of the players we had??? I mean were we gonna go bombs away 4-wide with Oronde, Chambers, Ward, and Mcknight??? I mean c'mon. It's real easy to say be more aggressive, but you've gotta have the personnel packages, something we've never had and it's been because of bad personnel moves.
 
First of all, i never said that we wouldn't be better off separating the duties. What I was saying was that his duties in the GM office does not affect his HC duties on the field. It's his whole attitude that won't get us far. As i said b4, even with his bad personell moves he also had some good ones and more than enough talent to do alot better on the field than we did. Granted, we didn't have exactly a firestorm for an O but we were actually good enough to be able to jump out to early leads in the first half more so than not. So apparently they were good enough to pour on a little more pressure b4 going into the run,run,run,punt mode. I even went to the trouble of even breakjing down our scoring over the winter and it came out to something like if we had scored 3 more points every gm, we have 3 more wins outright. Just an average of 3 a gm may even have gotten another as well. see, it's knowing when to hold'em and know when to fold them. Wanny seems to want to fold'em too soon at times. Sure, some games you can get away with it but you never know that til it's over. The monday nighter in nY is a prime example. Never quit and keep pouring it on cuz you just never know. Hopefully, we never will again. besides, how many champions have you know to play conservative like us?? ie, instead of playing to win but playing not to lose? it's all in the mindset.
 
enigmatics said:
Mike Shanahan (Broncos) ........ dragging his franchise through the mud with bad signings, definately dropping off from the Elway era

Dan Reeves (Atlanta)............. Look what happened when Michael Vick went down, prior to Vick he still did nothing.
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Shanahan won 2 Super Bowls and you are going to ***** about him? They struggled the year after Elway left at 6-10(which isn't terrible) but haven't finished below .500 since. How is that dragging a franchise through the mud?

Plus, even though I don't like him as a head coach, I could have sworn that Dan Reeves lead the Falcons to the Super Bowl....THE FREAKIN' FALCONS!! How does that constitute doing nothing?

That just shows how fickle fans can be.
 
He just better win. I don't care if he has a fit or not. I want the team leaders to have a fit and make others step up (i.e. Greenwood)
 
KYfinfan said:
Shanahan won 2 Super Bowls and you are going to ***** about him? They struggled the year after Elway left at 6-10(which isn't terrible) but haven't finished below .500 since. How is that dragging a franchise through the mud?

Plus, even though I don't like him as a head coach, I could have sworn that Dan Reeves lead the Falcons to the Super Bowl....THE FREAKIN' FALCONS!! How does that constitute doing nothing?

That just shows how fickle fans can be.
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Brother.........Shanahans success was nearly 6 years ago and Reeves was even longer than that. Get with the times.........those guys have completely lost it in the personnel category and it's translating down onto the field. The Falcons had a fluke year, where've they been since that SB???? Reeves ain't even coaching anymore. The Broncos success was mainly derived from Elway and their brilliant O-line coaching with a touch of Terrel Davis. They may have fielded a couple more RB's who looked good playing for them, but the credit is given to the O-line when your next 4 RB's grab 1,000 yard seasons. Although Portis was an obvious future star, the rest of Shanahans personnel track record blew chunks in the 2k. How many times did he try to shore up the defense thru the draft only to have complete busts lining up his secondary??? Willie Middlebrooks??? Delta O'Neal????? Bums, all of them.
 
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