Dwayne Jarrett v. Ted Ginn, Jr.

[clbrazee]

IMO Jarrett provides a possible #1 for the future. Ginn is a number 2 or three later on, a return guy at first - too high for him at 9.

 

[RenoFinFan]

Jarrett is a polished route runner? Since when?

Honestly I'm in favor of signing a free agent or drafting a WR in the 2nd or 3rd.

One free agent who comes to mind is Lelie, who had a down year but can run routes and has TREMENDOUS speed.

Wow...you don't think Jarrett is a polished route runner, but think Lelie is? During his career QBs have completed 48.8% of the passes they have thrown to Lelie. Hardly the numbers of a polished route runner. Especially considering he never has been a #1...very poor indeed. We already have a WR that puts up those exact numbers in completion percentage in Chambers at 49% for his career. I can't think of a worse WR to add to this team. An even bigger problem with Lelie is he is allergic to the end zone.

 

[RenoFinFan]

I don't understand why everyone tries to compare Jarrett to Mike Williams and say he will fail just like Williams did. Has everyone forgotten that Williams didn't play football for a year before the draft? I would much rather have Jarrett on my team than Ginn. I'd be very happy with Chambers (yes he hasn't been great, but he has the skills) as our #1 guy (for now) and Jarrett as our #2 guy. Of course, I'd much rather draft an offensive lineman, but no one is worth the #9 pick.

Agree...anyone comparing Jarrett to Williams must be oblivious to the situation Williams arrived in the NFL. He played two years in college and then had to sit a year as he tried to slide into the NFL off of the Maurice Clarret situation. The NFL didn't let him in and the NCAA wouldn't let him play bc he declared and if memory serves me correctly he got an agent. During his year off Williams ballooned in weight. In fact, some analysts were saying he had become more of a TE than WR. Furthermore, he went to the worst possible organization he could in Detroit. I recall a Michael Smith (ESPN) article when he interviewed Matt Millen during Williams rookie year and asked him if it was true Williams would show up late to meetings and Millen responded something to the effect of, "He is only a kid and boys will be boys." Not a good approach for a young man who obviously already had a tough time disciplining himself.

So how does all this relate to Jarrett? IT DOESN'T! Where the comparisons come from is beyond me outside of they both played at USC.

 

[RenoFinFan]

This is from DwayneJarrettOnline

Any possession-type receiver with question marks about him being physical is not the one you should be looking at.
Until reading this again, I forgot about those nagging injuries he had last year. I hope for his sake that it's not something that's going to bother him throughout his career.

The good news is the injury this year only effected him for 3 games so it wasn't one of those nagging injuries. Considering Jarrett played full-time and mostly as the teams #1 as an 18, 19, and 20 year old and that was the only time an injury affected his play bodes well for him. I definitely think "injury prone" would be an unfair label to place on the kid (not saying you did).

As far as the comments by his OC it is possible that was used for motivation purposes. Unfortunately, something like that can get generalized and used against him. My opinion is based on the "fact" that when he played in the big games and against secondaries considered to be fast, physical and elite (Texas, Michigan) is when he stepped his level of play up. Of course, there was also that catch from Lienhart pass in his Sophomore year against ND on a 4th and long (can't remember the exact distance) and he made the big catch that led to the winning TD in what some consider the be one of the best college games ever. Considering Chambers steps his play down in big moments I would love to get Dwayne "big time" Jarrett on this team...a definite upgrade.

 

[musphinzfan]

although Sidney Rice isnt on the list thats who I want!!

 

[RenoFinFan]

Just looked up his stats from the Arkansas game - 5 rec 34 yds 0 td. Never realized how badly he got shut down against the only SEC defense he played this past year. Makes you wonder...

He also went up against Arkansas in his sophomore year and had 4 catches for 79 yards and 2 TDs. Since USC beat Arkansas "70-17" and "50-14" it is not like he got shut down. I don't recall the exact play-by-play but hardly the type of games where a team is throwing the ball down the field the whole game to their #1. I would think how "DOMINATED" Arkansas was in those two games "120-31" would be a little embarrassing to the SEC and not an example of how tough the SEC is on opposing players.

 

[Crowder52]

He also went up against Arkansas in his sophomore year and had 4 catches for 79 yards and 2 TDs. Since USC beat Arkansas "70-17" and "50-14" it is not like he got shut down. I don't recall the exact play-by-play but hardly the type of games where a team is throwing the ball down the field the whole game to their #1. I would think how "DOMINATED" Arkansas was in those two games "120-31" would be a little embarrassing to the SEC and not an example of how tough the SEC is on opposing players.

Ummm...Arkansas went 4-7 during Jarrett's sophomore year, with those wins coming over Mississippi, Mississippi State, LA-Monroe, and Missouri State. 4 catches certainly isn't much to brag about, and neither is that score against such a pathetic team. And last year, Arkansas was about the 5th best team in the SEC by the end of the season. So the #1 team in the Pac-10 beat the #5 team in the SEC without their Heisman finalist at full strength? You're right, that's so embarassing. :shakeno:

Anyways, my point was that his numbers were less than impressive against Arkansas. Playing in the Pac-10 inflates your offensive numbers, I'm sure even you will admit that. No one plays defense in that conference other than his own team. Though he did have a good game against Michigan, but how good was their D? It was highly touted, but got shown up in their only 2 big games.

 

[Geforce]

The good news is the injury this year only effected him for 3 games so it wasn't one of those nagging injuries. Considering Jarrett played full-time and mostly as the teams #1 as an 18, 19, and 20 year old and that was the only time an injury affected his play bodes well for him. I definitely think "injury prone" would be an unfair label to place on the kid (not saying you did).

As far as the comments by his OC it is possible that was used for motivation purposes. Unfortunately, something like that can get generalized and used against him. My opinion is based on the "fact" that when he played in the big games and against secondaries considered to be fast, physical and elite (Texas, Michigan) is when he stepped his level of play up. Of course, there was also that catch from Lienhart pass in his Sophomore year against ND on a 4th and long (can't remember the exact distance) and he made the big catch that led to the winning TD in what some consider the be one of the best college games ever. Considering Chambers steps his play down in big moments I would love to get Dwayne "big time" Jarrett on this team...a definite upgrade.

Yes he played big in big games (Nebraska, Notre Dame & Michigan) when he was out to prove something. In other games that he thought wasn't as important he was just average at best.

 

[PewterKrew]

Well, if the dolphins use their first round pick to shore up a shaky offensive line then may be wideout in round two then Rice, Meachem and may Bowe could be had

 

[Motion]

Well, if the dolphins use their first round pick to shore up a shaky offensive line then may be wideout in round two then Rice, Meachem and may Bowe could be had

I'd take any 1 of those 3 over Ginn or Jarrett.

 

[RenoFinFan]

Ummm...Arkansas went 4-7 during Jarrett's sophomore year, with those wins coming over Mississippi, Mississippi State, LA-Monroe, and Missouri State. 4 catches certainly isn't much to brag about, and neither is that score against such a pathetic team. And last year, Arkansas was about the 5th best team in the SEC by the end of the season. So the #1 team in the Pac-10 beat the #5 team in the SEC without their Heisman finalist at full strength? You're right, that's so embarassing. :shakeno:

Anyways, my point was that his numbers were less than impressive against Arkansas. Playing in the Pac-10 inflates your offensive numbers, I'm sure even you will admit that. No one plays defense in that conference other than his own team. Though he did have a good game against Michigan, but how good was their D? It was highly touted, but got shown up in their only 2 big games.

4 catches 79 yards 2 TD over a full 16 game NFL schedule would equate to 64 catches 1264 yards 32 TD...keep in mind he probably didn't play the 4th quarter of that game and if he did I can assure you it wasn't much and they wouldn't have been calling his number. The point being from the games I have watched USC play the past couple of years when they are POUNDING a team they generally pull their starters in the 4th quarter. You are taking "ONE" game and magnifying it. The first game of the season when his team was "WAY AHEAD" and so his team wasn't throwing him the ball down the stretch to increase those numbers. If you think this is a true representation of a player then "OK."

If getting pounded 70-17 one year, followed by 50-14 at home is not embarrassing, exactly what score would be embarrassing? Is that what SEC football is all about? :shakeno:

As for his stats were accumulated against the weak PAC 10 (I am not a big conference fan to begin with, but sounds like you are), Jarrett's three biggest games this year were against Nebraska, Notre Dame and Michigan. My understanding is none of these teams play in the PAC 10 and all were in the TOP 25 when USC played them.

Against Nebraska...
11 catches 136 yards 2 TD

Against Notre Dame...
7 catches 132 yards 3 TD

Against Michigan...
11 catches 205 yards 2 TD

Of course, there was the Championship game against Oklahoma as a freshman...
5 catches 115 yards 1 TD

And the Championship game against Texas as a sophomore...
10 catches 121 yards 1 TD

You may want to do some research before making these types of claims bc it appears he "PADS" his stats against the great teams.

 

[RenoFinFan]

Yes he played big in big games (Nebraska, Notre Dame & Michigan) when he was out to prove something. In other games that he thought wasn't as important he was just average at best.

What are you talking about? I can only guess you haven't watched USC or Jarrett play very much. The main reason he didn't put up huge numbers during the 'not so important games" is mostly bc he didn't have to. USC was typically ahead by a large margin and wasn't calling his number in the second half. Not sure if you know this, but USC has had a pretty good running game as well.

Jarrett has been consistently good his entire college career as an 18, 19, and 20 year (he is still a kid!). Really his only poor stretch once he got worked into the offense as a freshman was this year when he was injured for three games (all against PAC 10 opponents) or his numbers would have been much better this year. Over his career Jarret has "41 TD catches" in only 38 games! Compare that with Ted Ginn who has 15 TD catches during his three year career.

Wow...Crowder52 is complaining that all of Jarrett's numbers were put up against the PAC 10 and you are complaining that all Jarrett's numbers weren't put up against the PAC 10, but against great teams...

 

[Crowder52]

4 catches 79 yards 2 TD over a full 16 game NFL schedule would equate to 64 catches 1264 yards 32 TD...keep in mind he probably didn't play the 4th quarter of that game and if he did I can assure you it wasn't much and they wouldn't have been calling his number. The point being from the games I have watched USC play the past couple of years when they are POUNDING a team they generally pull their starters in the 4th quarter. You are taking "ONE" game and magnifying it. The first game of the season when his team was "WAY AHEAD" and so his team wasn't throwing him the ball down the stretch to increase those numbers. If you think this is a true representation of a player then "OK."

If getting pounded 70-17 one year, followed by 50-14 at home is not embarrassing, exactly what score would be embarrassing? Is that what SEC football is all about? :shakeno:

As for his stats were accumulated against the weak PAC 10 (I am not a big conference fan to begin with, but sounds like you are), Jarrett's three biggest games this year were against Nebraska, Notre Dame and Michigan. My understanding is none of these teams play in the PAC 10 and all were in the TOP 25 when they played them.

Against Nebraska...
11 catches 136 yards 2 TD

Against Notre Dame...
7 catches 132 yards 3 TD

Against Michigan...
11 catches 205 yards 2 TD

You may want to do some research before making these types of claims bc it appears he "PADS" his stats against the great teams.

You're still touting Jarrett's performance his sophomore year against Arkansas, a team in the lower quartile of the entire NCAA? And then your projecting those numbers over an NFL season? Nice, that makes a lot of sense.

I know nothing about Nebraska's defense so I can't comment, but I never really heard them talked about or touted. Notre Dame's was worthless and Michigan's was shown to be fradulent after the beating both Ohio State and USC gave them. My point is that his stats are inflated due to the pathetic defenses USC faces. No, Notre Dame doesn't count as a strong defense, I don't care what their ranking in the polls was at the time.

I haven't said anything negative about Jarrett and in fact I voted for him in this poll. But you just can not discount the inflation that his stats benefit from.

 

[RenoFinFan]

You're still touting Jarrett's performance his sophomore year against Arkansas, a team in the lower quartile of the entire NCAA? And then your projecting those numbers over an NFL season? Nice, that makes a lot of sense.

I know nothing about Nebraska's defense so I can't comment, but I never really heard them talked about or touted. Notre Dame's was worthless and Michigan's was shown to be fradulent after the beating both Ohio State and USC gave them. My point is that his stats are inflated due to the pathetic defenses USC faces. No, Notre Dame doesn't count as a strong defense, I don't care what their ranking in the polls was at the time.

I haven't said anything negative about Jarrett and in fact I voted for him in this poll. But you just can not discount the inflation that his stats benefit from.

I referenced the Arkansas game bc you belittled his performance in that game. Would you prefer me to project the numbers over a full season based on the Michigan game...176 catches 3280 yards 32 TD.

I see...you make a claim that it was only bc he played against PAC 10 teams, but when it was pointed out he put up those numbers against other teams it is deny, deny, deny. Michigan did hold Vanderbilt to 7 points this year. Isn't Vanderbilt an SEC team? In fact, no SEC defense held Vanderbilt to that few of points the entire season. And I suppose you think Texas was soft in 2005 despite having a secondary that included Huff, Griffin(s), Ross.

Can not discount the inflation that his stats benefit from? If what you say is true then we should see an incredible number of WRs from the PAC 10 being on top of the WR statistics. But, in fact, there are a lot more SEC receivers than PAC 10 receivers are up there. Just how good is the defense in the SEC?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=rec&sort=recyds&season=3&year=2006&group=80

 

[Crowder52]

I referenced the Arkansas game bc you belittled his performance in that game. Would you prefer me to project the numbers over a full season based on the Michigan game...176 catches 3280 yards 32 TD.

I see...you make a claim that it was only bc he played against PAC 10 teams, but when it was pointed out he put up those numbers against other teams it is deny, deny, deny. Michigan did hold Vanderbilt to 7 points this year. Isn't Vanderbilt an SEC team? In fact, no SEC defense held Vanderbilt to that few of points the entire season. And I suppose you think Texas was soft in 2005 despite having a secondary that included Huff, Griffin(s), Ross.

Can not discount the inflation that his stats benefit from? If what you say is true then we should see an incredible number of WRs from the PAC 10 being on top of the WR statistics...hmmm....looks like a lot more SEC receivers than PAC 10 receivers are up there. Just how good is the defense in the SEC?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=rec&sort=recyds&season=3&year=2006&group=80

*yawn
My point is that the combination of USC's prolific offense and the weak defenses they play leads to Jarrett's numbers being inflated. After watching Tennessee play Cal this year, I think Meachem could have had 2000 yards receiving if he played USC's schedule. If you disagree, that's fine, but when we are talking about the Vanderbilts and the Arkansas of the world and making it sound like that is the class of the SEC, the discussion has really deteriorated. We obviously don't see eye-to-eye on this.

Currently, USC receivers seem to me like they could turn out to be like Gators receivers in the late 90's and early 2000's. Great college success because their opponents were overmatched, but it doesn't transition to the NFL. The trend has already begun in my opinion, with Mike Williams and Keary Colbert.