Finally someone speaks the truth about Losman

[Wakey]

The latest buzz on local sports radio is that Losman was already ticking off his team with his 'attitude'. The rumor is that Losman has been showing up defensive players by going full speed in practice when they have to hold up to avoid hitting him. Perhaps some show boating as well.

Vincent's hit may have been a message to the rookie to knock it off.

Love it.

C'mon now, how many times have you heard offensive players for the Fins yelling about Zach in practice? Some people are born ballers and some go through the moves.

The hit that hurt the QB was minimal the way it was stated by people in the Bills camp. Freak accident from what I understand.

I like this kid but comparing him to Manning is pretty damn funny. Mike Vick is a pure athlete also but hasn't really done squat in the football throwing part of the game.

More lazy media hype.

I think Bledsoe had 2 QB's breathing down his neck.

 

[DaQuix]

Who was comparing Losman to Manning???

We were comparing Manning to Marino.

Also - yes, it wasnt that hard of a hit, BUT HE BROKE HIS FRIGGEN LEG

That being said Losman will be the QB of the future.

 

[DaQuix]

The "on pace" statistic is completely and utterly useless. Kurt Warner was "on pace" to break Marino's passing yards and passing TDs in a season. Rich Gannon was "on pace" to beat those same 2 records. What happened? Well, obviously, Marino still has both records. "On pace" is a way for the idiot sports critics to find something to talk about after they've beaten everything else to death. Its as simple as that. If "on pace" is the universal method used everywhere, why doesn't is come up in contract negotiations? It doesn't come up because its fluff, nothing more......

LMAO - are you joking? You cant even compare the situations. Gannon and Warner cant even hold Manning's shoes.

In 17 years Rich Gannon has 28,000 yards and 177 touchdowns
- averages 1,600 yds, and 10 TD's per year

In 6 years Kurt Warner has 14,000 yards and 102 touchdowns
- averages 2,300 yds, and 17 TD's per year

In 6 years Peyton Manning has 25,000 yards and 167 touchdowns
- averages 4,166 yds, and 27 TD's per year

Rich Gannon had 3 good years out of his 17 year career. Kurt Warner had 3 good years out of his 6 year career (and is now struggling to beat Peyton's ROOKIE brother for a starting job). Peyton Manning has had 5 good years out of his 6 year career (and because he was a rookie during his bad year, you could count that as a good year for a rookie).

BTW: Dan Marino had a 5,000 yard season, yet his career average per year is only 3,600 (500 yards less than Peyton) and his career average per year for TD's is 24 (3 less than Peyton).

And this is all coming from a BILLS fan - not even a Colts fan. In fact I hated the Colts because they were in our divison - remember? But I am MAN enough to see when there is a GREAT player that is NOT on my team. You all seem to be in Marino's circle jerk or something. Marino was good - excuse me - great , but ON THIS PACE Peyton Manning will be the best QB of all time, hands down. Personally I think he already is, but he needs a few more years to certify the doubters.

And it DOES come up in contract negotiatons considering Peyton Manning is the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

ON THIS PACE Peyton Manning will be the best QB of all time, hands down. Personally I think he already is, but he needs a few more years to certify the doubters.

And it DOES come up in contract negotiatons considering Peyton Manning is the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY.

But, as you have already admitted, he will not maintain this pace for his whole career. The only fair comparison is where they were at the same point in their careers.

You have already admitted that the approach you are using is not the most fair, so what is the point of using it as the comparison. If Peyton continues at this pace, and he plays long enough, he will pass Marino's records. That is a big - if.

Years from now the debate will be between Manning, Brady, and Vick, just like the debate between Marino, Montana, and Elway. It is ironic that you have the pocket passer, the weaker armed QB that gets it done, and the athletic QB. Vick is the least accomplished so far, just as Elway was.

 

[DaQuix]

But, as you have already admitted, he will not maintain this pace for his whole career. The only fair comparison is where they were at the same point in their careers.

You have already admitted that the approach you are using is not the most fair, so what is the point of using it as the comparison. If Peyton continues at this pace, and he plays long enough, he will pass Marino's records. That is a big - if.

Years from now the debate will be between Manning, Brady, and Vick, just like the debate between Marino, Montana, and Elway. It is ironic that you have the pocket passer, the weaker armed QB that gets it done, and the athletic QB. Vick is the least accomplished so far, just as Elway was.

Do you know why most people dont use the same point in there careers comparison? Because you just cant use it. It is a different game - different defenses - different rules (new 5 yard chuck rule was not around with Marino). The cornerbacks when Marino were around may have been worse. The schedules Marino faced may have been easier ... etc

But lets just take your comparison. Through there first 6 years:

Marino: 23,856 yards , 196 touchdowns , 103 interceptions
Manning: 24,885 yards , 167 touchdowns , 110 interceptions

The thing that bothers me the most is that Marino had all day to pass - decent offensive line - Marino also had no running game so all he did was throw. He didnt have to share his success with Edgerin James. I dont care if the defense concentrates more on the pass your gonna rack up big numbers. If that doesnt convince you DAN MARINO IS #1 ALL TIME FOR THE MOST AMMOUNT OF PASS ATTEMPTS!!

Dont get me started on Brady. Tom Brady has gotten it done because of his DEFENSE. Manning has NO DEFENSE. Defense wins playoff games and thats why he cant seem to get to the SB. Give him a top 10 defense and Indi is in the SB.

You wanna compare "at this point in there career"

Tom Brady (3 years in): 10,233 yards , 69 Touchdowns , 38 INT
Peyton Manning (3 years in): 12,287 yards , 85 touchdowns , 58 INT,

Vick gets a lot of attention because he runs like a RB ... but his throwing isnt that great. His "great year" -

Mike Vick - 2,936 yards , 16 Td's, 8 INT
Again - I'm a Bills fan and I can see this - its sad you cant.

 

[Wakey]

Who was comparing Losman to Manning???

You did, in the first post in this thread..

I just realized you might have been talking about Eli though

 

[DaQuix]

You did, in the first post in this thread..

I just realized you might have been talking about Eli though

Yeah in my dreams would Losman be as good as Peyton now --- if you read my other threads you would see that I think Peyton Manning is going to be the best QB of all time.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Do you know why most people dont use the same point in there careers comparison? Because you just cant use it. It is a different game - different defenses - different rules (new 5 yard chuck rule was not around with Marino). The cornerbacks when Marino were around may have been worse. The schedules Marino faced may have been easier ... etc

And it all could have been harder during Marino's era also.....

If you can't compare using same point in their career because the game is different, why can you use your "on pace" comparison? If you beleieve so much is different, then you really can't compare them at all, yet you keep tyring to do it. Thats odd.

But lets just take your comparison. Through there first 6 years:

Marino: 23,856 yards , 196 touchdowns , 103 interceptions
Manning: 24,885 yards , 167 touchdowns , 110 interceptions

The thing that bothers me the most is that Marino had all day to pass - decent offensive line - Marino also had no running game so all he did was throw. He didnt have to share his success with Edgerin James. I dont care if the defense concentrates more on the pass your gonna rack up big numbers. If that doesnt convince you DAN MARINO IS #1 ALL TIME FOR THE MOST AMMOUNT OF PASS ATTEMPTS!!

Blah, blah. Why do you assume the conditions are all worse for Manning? Lets not forget that Marino played fewer games in his first 6 seasons.

Marino had no more time to pass that anyone else. It only seemed that way because of his quick release. Lets also not forget that Manning has Marvin Harrison, and as much as I like Clayton and Duper, they are not equal to Harrison.

The running game argument is hillarious. The fact that he thrived despite not having a running game is what makes Marino so great.

Peyton Manning has more attempts in his first 6 years than Marino did.

Could you be any more biased? You raise the issue of career attempts but fail to mention that Peyton has more at this point in his career?

One final attempt to convince you. Through six complete seasons, here are some important comparisons:

Completion % - Manning 62%, Marino 64%
Yds/game - Manning 259, Marino 274
TDs/game - Manning 1.74, Marino 2.25
Ints/game - Manning 1.15, Marino 1.18
Yds/Att - Manning 7.36, Marino 7.70
QB Rating - Manning 88, Marino 92

The most impressive difference is TDs/game. Marino accounts for 8 more per season than Manning. The TD to Int ration is also in Marino's favor.

Marino is better, case closed.

Dont get me started on Brady. Tom Brady has gotten it done because of his DEFENSE. Manning has NO DEFENSE. Defense wins playoff games and thats why he cant seem to get to the SB. Give him a top 10 defense and Indi is in the SB.

You wanna compare "at this point in there career"

Tom Brady (3 years in): 10,233 yards , 69 Touchdowns , 38 INT
Peyton Manning (3 years in): 12,287 yards , 85 touchdowns , 58 INT,

Just like the Montana vs Marino comparison, people will point out this difference:

Tom Brady: 2 SBs
Peyton Manning: 0 SBs

The point wasn't to compare Brady to Manning. The point was that Montana didn't have Marino's numbers but he had the rings and SB MVPs, etc, just like Brady.

Vick gets a lot of attention because he runs like a RB ... but his throwing isnt that great. His "great year" -

Mike Vick - 2,936 yards , 16 Td's, 8 INT
Again - I'm a Bills fan and I can see this - its sad you cant.

Elway didn't have great numbers early in his career either. He was considered dangerous because of this athletic ability, just like Vick.

 

[DaQuix]

It is pointless trying to talk to a Fin Fan ... but I dont blame you - I would defend Kelly to the death also ...

Mark my words: Manning will be the best QB of all time

Harrison - your arguement is weak. Dont you think that if Peyton Manning wasnt Harrison's QB then Marvin wouldnt get such good #'s ???

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

It is pointless trying to talk to a Fin Fan ... but I dont blame you - I would defend Kelly to the death also ...

Mark my words: Manning will be the best QB of all time

Harrison - your arguement is weak. Dont you think that if Peyton Manning wasnt Harrison's QB then Marvin wouldnt get such good #'s ???

Sucks when the stats don't support your argument......

What's wrong? Did the # of attempts argument blow up in your face? Nice try. Play again later....

You think Manning will end up with all of the records. How is that any different that what I posted LONG AGO?

In either case, Peyton Manning is a great QB and barring injury, he has the talent to break whichever records he sets his sights on.

 

[Atila]

anyone else find it funny that daquix was trying to prove that bledsoe was hot ****, got totally blown out the water by some guys great post on page 1 and quickly changed this into a manning vs marino debate?

haha what a loser

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

anyone else find it funny that daquix was trying to prove that bledsoe was hot ****, got totally blown out the water by some guys great post on page 1 and quickly changed this into a manning vs marino debate?

haha what a loser

I had the pleasure of proving him wrong in both arguments.....

 

[_dan24]

Everyone is high on Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben and I have been saying all along that I have seen Losman in camp and in the 2 pre-season games and he is AS GOOD or BETTER than Rivers, Manning, and Big Ben. Finally somone agrees - this is from ESPN:

"Losman, 23, was the fourth quarterback chosen in the first round this year, behind Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger, but there are some scouts who felt that he was as good as those prospects, and even superior in some areas. Certainly he is the best pure athlete of the group, and had to be, playing behind a suspect offensive line in college."

Holy preseason!!!


He's gonna be good, i do not doubt that... Dont go off his practice reports and preseason.

If we went by these numbers D. Thompson would be a probowler...

Anyways... ESPN's predictions suck.They are so biased...

 

[Baz]

LMAO - are you joking? You cant even compare the situations. Gannon and Warner cant even hold Manning's shoes.

In 17 years Rich Gannon has 28,000 yards and 177 touchdowns
- averages 1,600 yds, and 10 TD's per year

In 6 years Kurt Warner has 14,000 yards and 102 touchdowns
- averages 2,300 yds, and 17 TD's per year

In 6 years Peyton Manning has 25,000 yards and 167 touchdowns
- averages 4,166 yds, and 27 TD's per year

Rich Gannon had 3 good years out of his 17 year career. Kurt Warner had 3 good years out of his 6 year career (and is now struggling to beat Peyton's ROOKIE brother for a starting job). Peyton Manning has had 5 good years out of his 6 year career (and because he was a rookie during his bad year, you could count that as a good year for a rookie).

BTW: Dan Marino had a 5,000 yard season, yet his career average per year is only 3,600 (500 yards less than Peyton) and his career average per year for TD's is 24 (3 less than Peyton).

And this is all coming from a BILLS fan - not even a Colts fan. In fact I hated the Colts because they were in our divison - remember? But I am MAN enough to see when there is a GREAT player that is NOT on my team. You all seem to be in Marino's circle jerk or something. Marino was good - excuse me - great , but ON THIS PACE Peyton Manning will be the best QB of all time, hands down. Personally I think he already is, but he needs a few more years to certify the doubters.

And it DOES come up in contract negotiatons considering Peyton Manning is the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN NFL HISTORY.

I was NOT comparing them to Marino. I was using them as an example of how the "on pace" statistic is nothing more than rubbish. Kurt Warner was "on pace" to break Marino's records. No one even thinks Warner is could even hold Marino's jock. The point I was making is that "on pace" ISN'T EVEN A STATISTIC. Its something people use when they have nothing else to argue about......

By the way, I can guarantee Peyton's "on pace" numbers had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with his contract. The fact that he is the best young quarterback in the NFL had everything to do with that contract. You think Peyton said "I'm on pace to beat Marino's records, you better pay me more..." Hell no he didn't.......