Guys, your honest opinion.... | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Guys, your honest opinion....

Kinzua said:
The question is notbetter or best, it's most stable QB situation
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You make an excellent point!!!!

And, using that logic, the BIlls don't have the 2nd most stable QB situation in the division.........they have THE most stable QB situation in the division (maybe in the league)!!!!

Why??

Because no matter who wins the starting job, and even if two or 3 guys get injured......the Bills QB play will still be the model of consistency. Consistantly BAD!!! Whether it's Losman, or Holcolmb, or Nall or Tony Woodbury (do they still have him) the Bills will get some of the worst production in the league out of their QB position, what other team has STABIKITY like that??

#2 - The Jets - They have more upside at the QB position than the Bills, and less downside as well, so you can't expect the same consistancy of abissmal play form their QB's. There is less dropoff from from Pennington to Ramsey to Clemens than you would see in NE or Miami, so, more stability.

#3 -The Patriots - If they lose Brady, it goes to Matt Cassell........top-3 QB in the league to college backup. Huge drop-off no matter how much you think of Cassell. Where's the stability there?

#4 - Dolphins - They could get a 2004-like MVP-type season from Culpepper, or a typical Harrington-in-Detroit season, or have to go with Cleo Lemon if injuries bite...........similar peaks and valleys as the Patriots.

:goof:
 
Kinzua said:
there are also questions about his ability to put up big numbers without Randy Moss as well as his ability to lead his team to wins.
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:rolleyes2 oh please i have heard this lame excuse more than enough times from you bills fans. for starters, randy moss dosn't give culpepper a strong throwing arm, secondly, he was playing fine without Moss for that part of the 2004 season, and finally, he was in a new system without his OC, he was unfarmiliar with this system. becuase when Linehan left minny, he took everything he had. this includes his play book which happens to be the offense we're still running in Miami.
 
BwanaZulia said:
You said that Joey is better than Chad and are calling ME a homer?

Please.

Mirror check.

The question was who has the most STABLE QB situation and I think a returning QB is more stable than a brand new one (both coming off injuries)

BZ
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all fans are homers but thinking the jets have a stable qb situation is a bit off, you cant clear out say that chad is a better qb than joey because chad never plays seriously, chad IMHO is one of the worst qbs in the nfl not because he lacks skill but he lacks playing time due to injury..so saying joey isnt better is not that far off.......and what you said about having two qbs comming off of injury but one returning to the same team and the other to a different is completely off because chad is returning to a team who posted 4 wins last year and dauntes comming to one of the hottest teams from last season who are in a much better situation than the jets, MUCH BETTER...and its not like daunte isnt comming to a new system its the same system linehan ran last year so in all miamis qb situation is more stable than the jets and the horrible buffalo bills
 
Kinzua said:
Joey Harrington was the starter in Detroit for 4 years. They drafted 3 or 4 WRs in the first round to give him targets. The Lions' OL wasn't good, but it was at least mediocre. How long does a QB get before it's clear he's a bust???

Losman played 8 games on a team with a lousy ol and in turmoil because of the GM's pressuring the coaching staff. His most experienced WR didn't always play as hard as he could.

Situations aren't similar at all.
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joey harrington being the starter in detriot for 4 years is not the point, it was still a no-win situation from day 1 when he was drafted, even his former coach mooch is speaking on joeys behalf that detriot gave him no chance to win and that miami is a much better enviorment for joey (he also did mention that the dolphins have a darn good team:D)...and for the record detriots wrs had one of the worst dropped passes percentages in the league so have you ever gave it any thought that maybe joeys wrs wernt always steping it up?? yea all of those wrs were great in college but so was joey so how is it possible to just write off joey and not his wrs??? point is most qbs in this league would fail with detriot, who has been the worst team in the nfl since 2000, next to the bills
 
miaD5499 said:
joey harrington being the starter in detriot for 4 years is not the point, it was still a no-win situation from day 1 when he was drafted, even his former coach mooch is speaking on joeys behalf that detriot gave him no chance to win and that miami is a much better enviorment for joey (he also did mention that the dolphins have a darn good team:D)...and for the record detriots wrs had one of the worst dropped passes percentages in the league so have you ever gave it any thought that maybe joeys wrs wernt always steping it up?? yea all of those wrs were great in college but so was joey so how is it possible to just write off joey and not his wrs??? point is most qbs in this league would fail with detriot, who has been the worst team in the nfl since 2000, next to the bills
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Well, Joey Harrington isn't 'most QBs in this league'. He's the #3 pick in his draft year. Guys picked in the top 3-5 are supposed to near locks on making an impact in the NFL.

As for "writing off JH and not his WRs", how 'bout they're all younger than he is? How 'bout Detroit kept the wide-outs and sought to peddle JH when Jon Kitna is their "next best" QB.
 
miaD5499 said:
all fans are homers but thinking the jets have a stable qb situation is a bit off, you cant clear out say that chad is a better qb than joey because chad never plays seriously, chad IMHO is one of the worst qbs in the nfl not because he lacks skill but he lacks playing time due to injury..so saying joey isnt better is not that far off.......and what you said about having two qbs comming off of injury but one returning to the same team and the other to a different is completely off because chad is returning to a team who posted 4 wins last year and dauntes comming to one of the hottest teams from last season who are in a much better situation than the jets, MUCH BETTER...and its not like daunte isnt comming to a new system its the same system linehan ran last year so in all miamis qb situation is more stable than the jets and the horrible buffalo bills
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Duante is coming off a season where he had 12 ints, 3 lost fumbles, and only 6 TDs -- and then a horrific knee injury that almost always takes at least a year to heal if it heals completely, which it might not. Since that injury happened in late October, who knows when Daunte will be back and at what level he will be able to play.

Chad may be coming off a serious injury, but at least the Jets know that if he recovers, he will play at a high level -- because he always has.
 
Kinzua said:
Duante is coming off a season where he had 12 ints, 3 lost fumbles, and only 6 TDs -- and then a horrific knee injury that almost always takes at least a year to heal if it heals completely, which it might not. Since that injury happened in late October, who knows when Daunte will be back and at what level he will be able to play.

Chad may be coming off a serious injury, but at least the Jets know that if he recovers, he will play at a high level -- because he always has.
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all you can say is look back at last year daunte played horrible but if you knew half of the story you would know that daunte had already strained his acl before he tore it, so much pressure was on his shoulders to get the job done in minnesota, he had horrible coaching, and he also was asked to play the short passing game which is not his game....put aside that year put chad penningtons career next to dauntes and its no question who the better qb is, and if you have been paying any attention to recent news you would see daunte is on track and making sport analysts eat their words.....and who knows when chad will be healthy if whenever, how can you trust a guy like chad who is probably one if not the most injury prone guy in the league...and if chad is healthy enough to play he may not even win the starting job so how is that a stable qb enviorment? the dolphins know that when dauntes ready he is the starter and joeys the back up, thats a stable qb enviorment
 
miaD5499 said:
all you can say is look back at last year daunte played horrible but if you knew half of the story you would know that daunte had already strained his acl before he tore it, so much pressure was on his shoulders to get the job done in minnesota, he had horrible coaching, and he also was asked to play the short passing game which is not his game....put aside that year put chad penningtons career next to dauntes and its no question who the better qb is, and if you have been paying any attention to recent news you would see daunte is on track and making sport analysts eat their words.....and who knows when chad will be healthy if whenever, how can you trust a guy like chad who is probably one if not the most injury prone guy in the league...and if chad is healthy enough to play he may not even win the starting job so how is that a stable qb enviorment? the dolphins know that when dauntes ready he is the starter and joeys the back up, thats a stable qb enviorment
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so much pressure was on his shoulders to get the job done in minnesota, he had horrible coaching, and he also was asked to play the short passing game which is not his game....
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Sorry, but this line just doesn't hold up. Culpepper is a 7 year veteran and a 6 year starter, not some first year starter. Brad Johnson took the same team with the same coaches and supporting players on a 7-2 run, including a 6 game winning streak that netted Minnesota a 9-7 record. They lost only to Pitt and Baltimore under Johnson, and failed to score at least 20 points only 1 time. Under Daunte, Minnesota failed to score even 14 points in all 5 losses.

chad penningtons career next to dauntes and its no question who the better qb is
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Penney doesn't put up the fancy numbers, but he finds a way to win games. Daunte puts up fancy numbers, but he's only taken the Vikes to the playoffs only twice in his six years as a starter. Penney's only been a starter for four years, but in both seasons that he's played most of the season(2002 and 2004), he's led the Jets to the playoffs. When he took over the Jets from Vinnie T, I think they were 1-4 or something.

if chad is healthy enough to play he may not even win the starting job so how is that a stable qb enviorment
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I don't know where you came up with this, but if Chad is healthy, he's the starter. The only way he loses his job is if, when healthy, his arm isn't as strong as it was. The same, however, could also be said of Daunte. If his injury has limited his effectiveness, then he'll be demoted.
 
Kinzua said:
Sorry, but this line just doesn't hold up. Culpepper is a 7 year veteran and a 6 year starter, not some first year starter. Brad Johnson took the same team with the same coaches and supporting players on a 7-2 run, including a 6 game winning streak that netted Minnesota a 9-7 record. They lost only to Pitt and Baltimore under Johnson, and failed to score at least 20 points only 1 time. Under Daunte, Minnesota failed to score even 14 points in all 5 losses.



Penney doesn't put up the fancy numbers, but he finds a way to win games. Daunte puts up fancy numbers, but he's only taken the Vikes to the playoffs only twice in his six years as a starter. Penney's only been a starter for four years, but in both seasons that he's played most of the season(2002 and 2004), he's led the Jets to the playoffs. When he took over the Jets from Vinnie T, I think they were 1-4 or something.



I don't know where you came up with this, but if Chad is healthy, he's the starter. The only way he loses his job is if, when healthy, his arm isn't as strong as it was. The same, however, could also be said of Daunte. If his injury has limited his effectiveness, then he'll be demoted.
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well ill tell you exactly where i came up with chad not possibly being the starter if hes healthy, thats straight from eric mangini who earlier off in the offseason right after the draft said that the starting job is open for compitition and he has already showed signs of leading in a different direction by aquiring patrick ramsey and draft kellen clemens, chances are that chad will be the starter but he is going to really have to earn it...........now back to daunte, how can you say that the pressure wasnt there more than ever, randy moss had left and the vikings had made major offseason moves and if you would have seen all the reports before last season started all eyes were on daunte and especially once the love boat scandel broke up over there in minnesota the whole team was a mess, and take a look at the teams brad johnson played and then take a look at the teams daunte played, daunte had to start off against teams like tampa bay, cinncinati, atlanta, and chicago and brad johnson got the easier half of the scheadule playing teams like detriot twice, cleveland, green bay, baltimore and st. louis.............and to question dauntes ability is just stupid because daunte has lead the minnesota vikings to the nfc championship, has pennington ever done that???? chad has never finished a complete season its a plain simple fact so how am i suppose to believe that chad and the jets are in a great situation heading into next year and miami should be worried?????
 
miaD5499 said:
well ill tell you exactly where i came up with chad not possibly being the starter if hes healthy, thats straight from eric mangini who earlier off in the offseason right after the draft said that the starting job is open for compitition and he has already showed signs of leading in a different direction by aquiring patrick ramsey and draft kellen clemens, chances are that chad will be the starter but he is going to really have to earn it...........
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No, Ramsey was acquired and Clemens drafted because of health issues with Pennington. If he's sound and can throw as he used to, then Ramsey and Clemens ride the pine.

miaD5499 said:
now back to daunte, how can you say that the pressure wasnt there more than ever, randy moss had left and the vikings had made major offseason moves and if you would have seen all the reports before last season started all eyes were on daunte and especially once the love boat scandel broke up over there in minnesota the whole team was a mess, and take a look at the teams brad johnson played and then take a look at the teams daunte played, daunte had to start off against teams like tampa bay, cinncinati, atlanta, and chicago and brad johnson got the easier half of the scheadule playing teams like detriot twice, cleveland, green bay, baltimore and st. louis.............
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If Daunte can't handle a little pressure, then he's not much of a QB. Moreover, the "Love Boat" incident was of his own making, not somebody else's. Now, as for the competition, Cincinatti was hardly a defensive juggernaut, but Daunte gave up 5 INTs. Atlanta also wasn't a tremendous defensive team, but Daunte never got his team a score until the 4th quarter when Atlanta was playing its scrubs. Daunte did manage to beat New Orleans and Green Bay. Brad Johnson beat the Giants, St Louis, and Chicago along with Detroit twice, Cleveland, and Green Bay. He lost to Pitt and Baltimore. Sorry, but the schedule is what it is. You Miami fans bristle when people point out how the Fins' winning streak was mostly against teams with losing records.

miaD5499 said:
and to question dauntes ability is just stupid because daunte has lead the minnesota vikings to the nfc championship, has pennington ever done that???? chad has never finished a complete season its a plain simple fact so how am i suppose to believe that chad and the jets are in a great situation heading into next year and miami should be worried?????
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First off, that NFC Conference "drive" occurred in 2000 and consisted of the Vikes beating New Orleans and then getting their clocks cleaned by the Giants, 41-0. In 2004,the Vikes again made the playoffs as a wild card team. Again, they won the first game and then folded. BTW, Daunte did not finish the 2001 and the 2005 seasons, so he's missed as many seasons as Penney. Who's to say Chad plays ten more years and never has a major injury again?
 
Kinzua said:
No, Ramsey was acquired and Clemens drafted because of health issues with Pennington. If he's sound and can throw as he used to, then Ramsey and Clemens ride the pine.



If Daunte can't handle a little pressure, then he's not much of a QB. Moreover, the "Love Boat" incident was of his own making, not somebody else's. Now, as for the competition, Cincinatti was hardly a defensive juggernaut, but Daunte gave up 5 INTs. Atlanta also wasn't a tremendous defensive team, but Daunte never got his team a score until the 4th quarter when Atlanta was playing its scrubs. Daunte did manage to beat New Orleans and Green Bay. Brad Johnson beat the Giants, St Louis, and Chicago along with Detroit twice, Cleveland, and Green Bay. He lost to Pitt and Baltimore. Sorry, but the schedule is what it is. You Miami fans bristle when people point out how the Fins' winning streak was mostly against teams with losing records.



First off, that NFC Conference "drive" occurred in 2000 and consisted of the Vikes beating New Orleans and then getting their clocks cleaned by the Giants, 41-0. In 2004,the Vikes again made the playoffs as a wild card team. Again, they won the first game and then folded. BTW, Daunte did not finish the 2001 and the 2005 seasons, so he's missed as many seasons as Penney. Who's to say Chad plays ten more years and never has a major injury again?
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Oh my God you have no life.
 
Kinzua said:
No, Ramsey was acquired and Clemens drafted because of health issues with Pennington. If he's sound and can throw as he used to, then Ramsey and Clemens ride the pine.



If Daunte can't handle a little pressure, then he's not much of a QB. Moreover, the "Love Boat" incident was of his own making, not somebody else's. Now, as for the competition, Cincinatti was hardly a defensive juggernaut, but Daunte gave up 5 INTs. Atlanta also wasn't a tremendous defensive team, but Daunte never got his team a score until the 4th quarter when Atlanta was playing its scrubs. Daunte did manage to beat New Orleans and Green Bay. Brad Johnson beat the Giants, St Louis, and Chicago along with Detroit twice, Cleveland, and Green Bay. He lost to Pitt and Baltimore. Sorry, but the schedule is what it is. You Miami fans bristle when people point out how the Fins' winning streak was mostly against teams with losing records.



First off, that NFC Conference "drive" occurred in 2000 and consisted of the Vikes beating New Orleans and then getting their clocks cleaned by the Giants, 41-0. In 2004,the Vikes again made the playoffs as a wild card team. Again, they won the first game and then folded. BTW, Daunte did not finish the 2001 and the 2005 seasons, so he's missed as many seasons as Penney. Who's to say Chad plays ten more years and never has a major injury again?
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first off im not going to get in a he said she said argument because thats stupid, eric mangini said the starting qb position was up for graps and whoever plays the best is going to win the position so take it for what its worth because i swear to you he said that on an interview replayed on espn.....second, chad has been the starter on the jets for the last 4 years and for those 4 years he has never completed an entire season, not that same for daunte like you said, and if you really think that you are going to convince me that chad is a better qb than daunte and that he is more of a winner well you cant so you might as well give up.....and for the record what is up with praising chad are you also some kind of jets fan??? seriously, im going to ask you one more question put aside the homer that you are and your hatred for daunte and the dolphins, but if your bills were able to aquire either chad always injured pennington or duante culpepper who would you choose?????
 
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