Jake wont make us awesome...

[3rdandinches]

Do you pay a RT number one type money? No, its not smart business. The only tackles that are worth that kind of money are franchise LT's and Jake Long is not in the the Pace, Jones, Ogden or Bosseli class at all. He isnt even in the Joe Thomas class of LT prospects.

You make the arguement that Jake Long helps the defense by keeping the offense off the field with the running game. Let me ask you this, when teams get the ball and keep scoring on our porous defense, how do we run the ball?

With all that being said, Parcells and Ireland believe in fixing defenses first, offenses second.

After they score we run the ball and run time off the clock! Oh by the way we have JT and JP playing OLB so I guess C.Long not having ever played a down of football in the NFL would be better than them. Because if they can't stop teams C.Long certainly isn't going to.

 

[burger13]

Well I guess if we always draft the best player....we have a team made up of RB's...QB's...and linebackers...gee what a joy!

don't always draft the best player....sometimes you have to address a need.

but coming off a 1-15 season, with the #1 overall pick......what good does drafting the biggest need for this year do you? better chance at going 6-10?

bad argument for Jake Long - we need a LT, who are we going to play at LT this year....Chris Long will be stuck behind JT and JP

good argument for Jake Long - it is very hard to get a franchise LT in this league...pretty much the only way is to draft them in the top-10....and he is as good or better than anyone else in the draft. He will solidify that position for the next 10 years.....or at worst, we have a elite RT.

 

[3rdandinches]

So you keep saying its an excuse that Jake Long doesnt have Joe Thomas's foot quickness, could you provide a link where someone says that Jake Longs feet are at the elite level as people have said about Joe Thomas's? Scouting reports and film I have seen keep saying that there are questions about his feet and lateral agility. You can quote the combine all you want. Last I checked football wasnt played in shorts and t shirts. Its why the combine isnt the end all be all. Its why there is film. If you watch the film breakdowns mike mayock does, it shows why jakes long feet arent considered elite.

The dolphins can negotiate with whoever they want, last time i checked it doesnt make Jake Long the pick.

Joe Thomas got over his lack of arm length because of how quick his feet are. Jake Long overcame alot of college pass rushers because of his long arms and strength. Not his feet. At the nfl level, he wont be able to do it as easily.

You keep talking about Jake Longs strength, nastiness and all that. Sounds alot like Jon Runyan. Do I want Jon Runyan at number one overall? Nope.

Did you even read my post????

I never said J.Long has J.Thomas's foot speed. I also never quoted any combine stats. Do you have the same arguements for all responses.

You want to draft C.Pace #1 and that's suppose to be okay. A OLB is got to be one of the easier postions to fill in any draft. Franchise LT's come only every few years and you either sell the farm to trade up or your (un)lucky enough to stink and get the #1 pick to take him. If J.Long wasn't going to be a dominant LT then why isn't R.Clady the #1 LT coming of the board. He excels against weak competition in pass pro, he has no upper body strength and doesn't run block very well. But hey you can always run RT 100% of the run plays. Last time I checked majority of NFL teams run atleast 60% of the time and they do it to both sides of the field. J.Long will be worth the #1 selection as would CLong but unfortunately for C.Long is we don't need him 1st overall. In the 2nd or 3rd round will probably be ourfuture replacement for OLB.

 

[RonMexico7]

good argument for Jake Long - it is very hard to get a franchise LT in this league...pretty much the only way is to draft them in the top-10....and he is as good or better than anyone else in the draft. He will solidify that position for the next 10 years.....or at worst, we have a elite RT.

not quite - flozell adams - round 2, matt light - round 2, chad clifton - round 2, marcus mcneill - round 2.

 

[3rdandinches]

don't always draft the best player....sometimes you have to address a need.

but coming off a 1-15 season, with the #1 overall pick......what good does drafting the biggest need for this year do you? better chance at going 6-10?

bad argument for Jake Long - we need a LT, who are we going to play at LT this year....Chris Long will be stuck behind JT and JP

good argument for Jake Long - it is very hard to get a franchise LT in this league...pretty much the only way is to draft them in the top-10....and he is as good or better than anyone else in the draft. He will solidify that position for the next 10 years.....or at worst, we have a elite RT.

Please explain why drafting a OLB #1 overall when we have two Probowlers there already is a bad arguement. Drafting a M.Howard type player in the 3rd round gives him atleast a couple of years learning from two great pros, you would want this in a heart beat for a young QB why not a OLB which then allows you to draft a franchise LT.

 

[3rdandinches]

not quite - flozell adams - round 2, matt light - round 2, chad clifton - round 2, marcus mcneill - round 2.

Why are they available? Or you just assume we'll find him....oh ya in case you forgot JT 3rd round.

 

[fishypete]

Here's the best reason for J. Long;

Despite what some draft experts think Jake Long is an elite tackle. Maybe not an elite left tackle, but an elite tackle. He's extremely lean for an offensive lineman, which means he's very disciplined with his eating habits and work ethic. He's strong, and has looooong arms. And he's very technically sound (as evident by the two sacks and two penalties throughout his entire college career). Drafting him gives the Dolphins two bookends at tackles, pairing him with Vernon Carey (who is entering the last year of his deal!). Those two are what you need to build an elite offensive line.
Without a strong offensive line you'll never begin to develop a quarterback, and the worst thing the Dolphins could let happen to Beck, or any other young quarterback, would be to let him get rattled by pressure to the point he's shell-shocked. That started to happen to Beck at the end of the season, which is why he got pulled for Cleo Lemon. I watched that happen to Kyle Wright at Miami and it ruined a perfectly good quarterback. Any time the blitz came he clammed up and couldn't read the field.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2008/04/size-is-not-neg.html

 

[burger13]

Please explain why drafting a OLB #1 overall when we have two Probowlers there already is a bad arguement. Drafting a M.Howard type player in the 3rd round gives him atleast a couple of years learning from two great pros, you would want this in a heart beat for a young QB why not a OLB which then allows you to draft a franchise LT.

IF Chris Long grades out as the top player.....having JT and JP there is not a good reason to bypass him....it's just not. how long are either or both going to be there? good bet that one or both aren't there after this year, regardless of whether we draft CL.

you aren't drafting this player to help you win a Super Bowl in 2008.....we are rebuilding. you're drafting a guy that can help you win one in a few years.

 

[RonMexico7]

Why are they available? Or you just assume we'll find him....oh ya in case you forgot JT 3rd round.

nope - read the statement - it read the only way to get a franchise LT was to draft one top 10. i was merely stating that was not the case.

You seem to be under the impression that anyone who doesnt share your view is automatically wrong for that reason....

 

[PerfectTeam]

We don't necessarily need one but somehow we need a OLB???????

You also say VC did an adequate job so then why not draft a OLB to do an adequate job on defense?

C.Long lacks high end speed for a speed rushing OLB but that's okay apparently you don't need speed to play a speed rushing OLB. C.Long is under sized for DE but that's okay because he's C.Long. We have two Probowl OLB's but they MIGHT be gone some time so we need to replace them now. We can't draft a OLB later and have him learn from two Probowlers and be very well prepared when they finally are no longer with the team. We have NO OT or OG but we can find them in the later rounds and learn on the fly in a real hurry.
VC did an adequate job at LT but would make a great RT so by filling one position with J.Long at LT we instantly get a much better RT than anyone that would be leftover by the 2nd round, so we improve two positions with one move. J.Long is a 10-15 year solution and a fix for 2008 what a bonus.

We dont need to have a LT because Carey did just fine at LT like I said in my post. In a 3-4 defense pass rushers are at a premium. We have two aging players, one who would rather be dancing and one who runs his mouth to much. To use an adjusted of yours, Id rather have a nasty OLB rather then the first OLB on dancing with the stars.

So Chris Long lacks high end speed. Tell me when that became an issue for OLB's. I didnt realize that OLB's had to run 40 yards to get to the QB. Personally Id rather judge them on their 10 yard split and 20 yard splits.

Chris Long 10 yard split: 1.53
Vernon Gholston 10 yard split: 1.53
Demarcus Ware 10 yard split: 1.62
Shaun Phillips 10 yard split: 1.72
Cliff Avril 10 yard split: 1.50
Jevon Kearse 10 yard split: 1.61

Chris Long 20 yard split: 2.70
Dearcus Ware 20 yard split: 2.71
Vernon Gholston 20 yard split: 2.65
Jevon Kearse 20 yard split: 2.67
Shaun Phillips 20 yard split: 2.84
Cliff Avril 20 yard split: 2.58

Seems Chris Long is plenty fast enough. Chris Long is undersized for DE but yet he seemed to play it well enough last year even though he will be an OLB in our scheme so I dont quite see your point.

 

[burger13]

not quite - flozell adams - round 2, matt light - round 2, chad clifton - round 2, marcus mcneill - round 2.

touche salesman.

What I was thinking was that they don't become available in FA hardly ever....I probably took it a step too far with the top-10 part.

but there is something to it.....over the last 3 years, half of the Offensive tackles that have made the Pro Bowl were top-10 picks.

 

[3rdandinches]

nope - read the statement - it read the only way to get a franchise LT was to draft one top 10. i was merely stating that was not the case.

You seem to be under the impression that anyone who doesnt share your view is automatically wrong for that reason....

No not at all, you can list a boat load of players that got draft late or went undrafted even that turn out great. But if you think we can count on that as a draft theory, we're screwed then. I have not said once that your wrong because you want C.Long. I just personally see a flaw in your reasons, I could very well be wrong and I do not think I know more than anyone else the posts on this board.

I realize C.Long may grade out as #1 BPA, that doesn't mean it's right and when your talking about such a small difference than it doesn't matter what player is picked.

C.Long does nothing to improve our team until J.T or J.P no longer play for this team. Once that happens he'll be a great player at that position, I do not question that. J.Long on the other hand improves our team instantly with his ability at LT and VC ability at RT, this allows us during this rebuilding time to draft a OLB in another round to learn from two great football players and when their gone he fills in and we have a great offensive line. You seem to think plugging in two rookies from the later rounds not learning from anyone except practice and game time to develope would be a good idea. This causes more problems for Beck and Brown let alone if these late rounders don't develope were right back where we started. If this later round OLB doesn't turnout it would not hurt us as bad as a pour Oline.

 

[3rdandinches]

We dont need to have a LT because Carey did just fine at LT like I said in my post. In a 3-4 defense pass rushers are at a premium. We have two aging players, one who would rather be dancing and one who runs his mouth to much. To use an adjusted of yours, Id rather have a nasty OLB rather then the first OLB on dancing with the stars.

So Chris Long lacks high end speed. Tell me when that became an issue for OLB's. I didnt realize that OLB's had to run 40 yards to get to the QB. Personally Id rather judge them on their 10 yard split and 20 yard splits.

Chris Long 10 yard split: 1.53
Vernon Gholston 10 yard split: 1.53
Demarcus Ware 10 yard split: 1.62
Shaun Phillips 10 yard split: 1.72
Cliff Avril 10 yard split: 1.50
Jevon Kearse 10 yard split: 1.61

Chris Long 20 yard split: 2.70
Dearcus Ware 20 yard split: 2.71
Vernon Gholston 20 yard split: 2.65
Jevon Kearse 20 yard split: 2.67
Shaun Phillips 20 yard split: 2.84
Cliff Avril 20 yard split: 2.58

Seems Chris Long is plenty fast enough. Chris Long is undersized for DE but yet he seemed to play it well enough last year even though he will be an OLB in our scheme so I dont quite see your point.

No I'm sorry you don't get to quote stats from the combine, that's your own arguement you used against J.Long. Please try again.

 

[GRYPHONK]

A converted right tackle that seemed to play fairly well. I guess we should take a tackle at the top of the draft that alot of people seem to think wont be a good fit at LT. See drafting for need at the top instead of best available talent gets you in trouble.

So Jake Long is no longer a top 3 prospect in this draft?

I understand you may think, and may say that Long could be better sited for RT. He may be, none of us will know till he plays in the Pros.

But these same people, scouts and some GM'S can't all agree on who is better between GHolston or Chris Long.

If that's the case, wouldn't it make Chris Long or Gholston a gamble as well?

So there is no way you can say that Chris Long is the BPA.

If Parcells and Ireland take Chris Long I will be happy. I would prefer Gholston or Jake, however, unlike some people *cough cough* I am not gonna claim that 1 of the top 4 prospects all of a sudden would be drafted for need as opposed to BPA.

I mean, I guess, appearantly, there is a huge drop off in talent betweem the #1/#2/ and #3 prospect that would make it drafting for need as opposed to drafting for BPA.

 

[PerfectTeam]

Did you even read my post????

I never said J.Long has J.Thomas's foot speed. I also never quoted any combine stats. Do you have the same arguements for all responses.

You want to draft C.Pace #1 and that's suppose to be okay. A OLB is got to be one of the easier postions to fill in any draft. Franchise LT's come only every few years and you either sell the farm to trade up or your (un)lucky enough to stink and get the #1 pick to take him. If J.Long wasn't going to be a dominant LT then why isn't R.Clady the #1 LT coming of the board. He excels against weak competition in pass pro, he has no upper body strength and doesn't run block very well. But hey you can always run RT 100% of the run plays. Last time I checked majority of NFL teams run atleast 60% of the time and they do it to both sides of the field. J.Long will be worth the #1 selection as would CLong but unfortunately for C.Long is we don't need him 1st overall. In the 2nd or 3rd round will probably be ourfuture replacement for OLB.

Your right, you never said that Jake Long has Joe Thomas's foot quickness. If he did, he would be considered an elite LT. Your also right in that you didnt quote any combine stats, in that one post.

Your pretty delusional to believe that Chris Long and Calvin Pace are the same player. I dont remember calvin pace ever being considered to be the number one prospect in the draft. I remember on draft day calvin pace considered being a reach and to go on and have only one decent season at the nfl level so far.

If OLB is the easiest position to fill, then why do Parcells and Ireland keep drafting them in the first round? If it was so easy, dont you think they would wait?

You are right that franchise LT's come every few years. Its been a few since there was actually one. Even Joe Thomas wasnt considered on the elite level but was close enough. He was rated higher than Jake Long was as well.

There are way to many questions about clady for him to be considered as you pointed out yourself even to go as far as to call him the number one LT. His level of competition and the fact his worst blocking grades came against the best teams being the biggest points of contention.

The rest of your argument makes no sense. So all running plays should be run to the rightside? Please show where you most teams run the ball 60% of the time because the only figures I could find where from 2006 and say most teams either are close to even or pass the ball more with jacksonville, tennessee, san diego washington and atlanta being the ones that ran the ball more often.