Jamar Taylor's Kidney Issue May Have Made Him Slip to #54

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ikkonz, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. ikkonz

    ikkonz Active Member

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    Per Rotoworld/Miami Herald:

    Very interesting, maybe we got him at better value than expected. Hopefully they're right and his kidney is a non-issue.
     
  2. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    most places had him going second round but maybe he would go higher in round
     
  3. Csonked Out

    Csonked Out Well-Known Member

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    He may be the steal of the draft for us, fully expect him to start opposite Grimes on opening day
     
  4. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    You could be right but starting over two nickelbacks is not a ringing endorsement. I personally like about 5 cbs better than him but he is a solid guy
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    So we're assuming that teams that passed on him had no reason?

    Kidneys functioning at 42% is ok for a professional athlete playing in sweltering heat and humidity?
     
  6. Csonked Out

    Csonked Out Well-Known Member

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    Many high blood pressure medications can do this to you liver and Kidney's if they go without being looked at for awhile. They can heal with just a simple switch of medication, if that is all it is, there is nothing to worry about.
     
  7. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    Reading the Miami Herald article it sounds like the test at the combine saved him from something that could have become very serious. Also sounds like now that the issue has been brought to his attention the doctors have altered the medication and his kidneys will improve and he should be fine.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    So then teams DIDN'T pass on him because of this.

    Or are people trying to have it both ways?
     
  9. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx A True Fan

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    What is it that your actually trying to say here, because I have no clue.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    This is very simple.

    If this is nothing to be concerned about, then the theory that Jamar Taylor fell due to this is most likely false.

    If the theory that Jamar Taylor most likely fell due to this it true, then this is something to be concerned about.

    You can't have it both ways.
     
  11. ikkonz

    ikkonz Active Member

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    I think he is trying to say that if this is a seemingly non-issue, why are they reporting that teams may have passed on Taylor because of it. I think what the article is trying to get at is that teams were initally worried and were unsure if it would be an issue going forward and in order to be risk averse, may have passed over Taylor for a safer pick.
     
  12. mmikel30

    mmikel30 Starter

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    I thought the Pats were going to take him for sure right in front of us...I was thrilled they didnt
     
  13. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    Oh high blood pressure in the heat and humidity well that makes it better
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    In other words teams and their doctors were concerned enough to take this guy off their board, but we know they were silly for doing so, because...Miami Herald article. Amirite?
     
  15. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    Why can't you? Can two different teams not evaluate or proiritize medical risk differently? Could the Saints not say, "We think Brees' shoulder is a non-issue" while Miami said "it might be?"
     
  16. ikkonz

    ikkonz Active Member

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    Hahah I guess we put our faith in Miami homerism. Or at the very least wait to hear more about this story.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    So Brees' return to health means there was no valid cause for concern?
     
  18. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx A True Fan

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    We don't really know if he came off anyones board because of this, do we?

    Although I'm sure he did, doesn't make them right or wrong.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    The kidney thing could be nothing. It could be no cause for concern whatsoever. But if it is indeed, then no teams did not pass on him because of it.
     
  20. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Two words.

    Kenny. Easley.
     
  21. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    CK people have different opinions about what TV shows they like or do not like. I would assume what is a BIG issue to one team may not be as BIG an issue to another team.
     
  22. mr3117

    mr3117 Rookie

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    42 percent efficiency is no good. As an icu nurse I have seen people go into complete kidney failure from blood pressure meds. Some never recover even when they stop taking the meds
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    So then it IS something we should be concerned about?
     
  24. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    No, just that it was minimal enough for them and big enough for Phins. Perhaps the kidney thing was a big deal for some teams, esp. for a 2nd rounder.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    So then this is something we should be concerned about.
     
  26. WestSideFin

    WestSideFin A True Fan

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    Well he had to have played with the issue all last year. It did not seem to affect him on the field.
     
  27. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    CK I'm simply pointing out ppl and along those lines teams view issues differently all the time.
     
  28. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    If you are one to worry about kidney issues, sure. I'm with mr3117. Kidney damage due to meds is often reversible, but not necessarily.

    Personally Ireland's emphasis on value sure seems to result in drafting a lot of injured players. Seems like he sees who slips the farthest and then talks himself out of the medical issue being a problem.
     
  29. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    https://mobile.twitter.com/J_Tay5

    Sounds like the kidney issue did play a part in his drop, probably scared some teams away. At the same time, he has switched medicines, the doctors told him his kidney function will improve and he says it never affected him on the field. Something to keep an eye on going forward, but it sounds like it is more likely not going to be a future problem then it being one.
     
  30. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    Damn, that's scary.
     
  31. MP-Omnis

    MP-Omnis Larry King, Antique Bandwagon

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    I'm more worried about his high blood pressure at such a young age-- and he's an athlete!

    Fibrotic kidneys are no joke though.
     
  32. Lilpapeto

    Lilpapeto New Member

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    High blood pressure in your 20's? Scar tissue doesn't just disappear either, unless you surgically remove it.

    Now it all makes sense why he dropped.

    Hopefully everything goes well.
     
  33. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    High blood pressure playing out in the sweltering heat and his kidneys are shot to hell too. Damn.
     
  34. Lilpapeto

    Lilpapeto New Member

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    And we were worried about wasting a 5th on Ryan Swoope. HAHA
     
  35. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    Really????
     
  36. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx A True Fan

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    The man has a point...
     
  37. COMEBACKRICKY

    COMEBACKRICKY Superbowl MVP

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    Yeah it's definitely not good and the herald seems to be conflicting. I just finished studying the kidney so I'll share what I know but it's hard to determine the outlook without knowing specifics about his issues and how long he has had it.

    The kidney has the ability to repair the nephrons if the insult has not lasted a long time (acute tubluar necrosis).. but if this is a chronic thing and it went a long time undecided those nephrons could be lost for good. Kidney scarring typically means the glomerulus got damaged and those are the tiny blood vessels that go into the kidney.. those can't be healed.. once they are damged they are lost for good. So when the report says that "he is expected to improve" I'm guessing they are just going to put him on meds but the kidneys themselves can't heal like in other cases of kidney damage.
    As 3117 said, people with scarring can go into complete renal failure so I'm not sure why the Herald is saying he is expected to improve..It's not something that he will just forget about soon enough. If it is in fact scarring of the kidney and the glomeruli were damaged, he will have to cope with either by medications or a kidney transplant in the future if it gets worse. If he has to be on constant medications thats not good for his performance since theres no perfect medicine for this kind of stuff. He could very easily have a lot of bad days due to side effects from the medication. I would hate for him to get light headed before snaps and have to deal with that during the play.

    People tend to mess up terms all the time so it might not be as bad as actual kidney scarring.. could be something else and the herald messed up their terms. I hope thats the case.


    If you care to know this is a lot of science so skip it if you don't care.. The glomerulus are the tiny vessels that go into the kidney and pass into a high pressure capsule.. The blood continues on but there is a filtrate that gets taken out of the blood and that filtrate then goes into the nephron. Nephrons are long tubes that start at the outer edge of the kidney, dip into the inner part and come back up. We have about a million of these nephrons per kidney and they serve to reabsorb/excrete water and solutes like sodium, chloride, and potassium based on if we need those things or not.. the kidney is the major player in long term blood pressure control so when you mess with the kidney you have patients coming in with blood pressures that are whack.
    Kidneys are sensitive to change in pressure so they would release an enzyme (renin) which ultimately leads to the activation of a hormone (aldosterone) which acts on the nephrons themselves to open up more channels to take back more water and sodium. Aldosterone also causes vasoconstriction, which means to makes the arteries smaller to increase pressure. So if he has scarring thats going to interfere with the tubular part and he's going to have really bad vasoconstriction because of the aldosterone secretion.. Now, since the heart has to pump blood into smaller arteries, the blood pressure is going to go up significantly. I imagine this would also affect his exercise capacity since his body is working against him to properly get blood to the muscles during exercise. The biggest thing is that they have diagnosed him and they know that he has it so it shouldn't get any worse with the proper medications. I would guess they'd give him vasodilators to make his heart work less. Whatever the case is, if this scarring is as significant as they say it is, thats definitely not something that can just be ignored.
     
  38. fincane

    fincane Active Member

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    What is your exact issue? I'm not sure what you're aiming at. Have you designated yourself the person who must give Dolphin fans a reality check about having it both ways? You appear to be that guy with this issue on twitter.

    Teams were concerned. He slipped. Doesn't mean as the money risk came down he wasn't about to be selected by someone else. Should Colts fan be concerned that Werner fell to them? Whats wrong with him? If you think I should be concerned, how concerned should I be? How concerned should I be about a 2nd round CB with kidney issues brought on by medicine? The issues haven't stopped him from playing at a high level. Should Steelers fans be concerned about Ryan Clark falling apart during the middle of the season because of his illness?

    I'm concerned Tannehill won't be a great QB. I'm concerned Oregon's quarters system is gonna keep Jordan out of some OTAs. I have plenty of concerns. Add Taylor to the list
     
  39. COMEBACKRICKY

    COMEBACKRICKY Superbowl MVP

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    Quite a few athletes have high blood pressure actually. Obviously not from their lifestyle but genetics.. African-Americans are more prone to hypertension. It's definitely not something you want to have if you're in the NFL. I'm really bummed to hear this.

    And no they can not remove scar tissue from the kidney these are extremely tiny vessels that are being damaged, it's not the same as removing scar tissue from a joint. Kidney scarring is unfortunately permanent.
     
  40. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    Man, kind of a bummer. It's probably a part (maybe a large part) of why, according to lots of posters here, Ireland 'panicked' and felt like he had to get back into the 3rd once corners started going to grab Davis. Grimes off an ACL and your 2nd-rounder with high blood pressure and kidney problems...should probably plan on needing that depth.
     
  41. COMEBACKRICKY

    COMEBACKRICKY Superbowl MVP

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    Well, he likely wouldn't admit if he was feeling the effects of his problems or he may have attributed it to something else. I'm sure he told all the teams that he never felt like anything was wrong and that very possible since a lot of people with kidney problems don't even realize there is something going on.. Symptoms are generally mild - things like light headedness and fatigue.
    The issue I am trying to understand is why the doctors would be telling him his kidney function is going to improve.. If they told him that that means he does not have kidney scarring. His condition will improve due to medication and diet management, but the kidney itself will never improve function. As I said in my previous post, once your glomerulus is damaged thats it, theres nothing that can be done to bring back their function. That's what leads me to believe there may be some discrepancy in the reporting maybe it's not actually kidney scarring.
     
  42. COMEBACKRICKY

    COMEBACKRICKY Superbowl MVP

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    Is there an actual article besides the blurb on rotoworld? I'd like to find out more information about his condition but I cant find anything else that mentions his kidney problems.
     
  43. COMEBACKRICKY

    COMEBACKRICKY Superbowl MVP

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    Yeah that's an interesting point. Thing is, Ireland would've known about the kidney issue before he submitted the pick. So if he decided it wasn't a big issue and then in the next round he decided it was an issue that would show some big time indecisiveness on his part.
     
  44. cltchperf

    cltchperf Pro Bowler

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    how did he not know until getting tested? at 42% rate, i would think he'd be dealing with edema. And I don;t know how he can play at a high level even if it doesn't get better. If it stays the same it would be hard. All I know is edema usually goes to the legs but other parts it can too. It would be hard for him to run or run fast as edema to the feet, feels like you're feet are heavy and doesn't feel good to be on you're feet too long. the feeling you get with being upside down the pressure to your head, well theres that pressure to the feat from the fluid retention to the feet and other places. That's what edema is, your kidneys help filter out toxins but also helps with protein. The kidneys from the damage start leaking out a lot of protein and with the loss the body is not able to flush out sodium and toxins in your system. Thats why someone with kidneys damamged, have to have very low salt diets, because sodium retains fluid and thats the last thing you want when your kidneys are retaining fluid and the sodium you're taking in is causing it even more. Plus actually sodium isn't good for the kidneys anyways. but to the other point the reason I know how it feels is because of an rare autoimmune thing that came on (not lupus) and I had the edema and it's not joke. I didn't want to be on my feet that long let alone try running, taylor would be trodding along if he tried running if his kidneys are 42%. Luckily, I had an immuno supressent drug and it stopped my immune systeme from beatin up my kidneys and they healed.

    They aren't 100%, but they are maybe 95% i would say and very slight protein leak and have stayed that way for years and shouldn't be a problem. It makes me curious why his high blood pressure caused this though. Some blood pressure could be tough, but there's lisinprol, which treats blood pressure, but is also supposed to help the kidneys too. I take it, as because the kidneys aren't 100%, my blood pressure is just slightly high, it's only 10mg I take, but the medicine also is to prevent scarring of the kidneys for far down the road say like when I'm 50 or 60 and just help maintain things. I'm surprised why they didn't have him take that.
     
  45. mrhankey81701

    mrhankey81701 A True Fan

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    I can honestly say I learned something new today from reading finheaven
     
  46. COMEBACKRICKY

    COMEBACKRICKY Superbowl MVP

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    Sure, thats fair when we are talking about the personality of a player, certain characteristics, or if the player got caught with weed but a medical issue should be a big issue for all 32 teams. Of course there are teams that inherently take more risk than other during the draft and believe that player could rehab and get better... but with an issue like this that deals with an organ system that should definitely not be taken lightly. Again, I don't want to blow this topic up because we just have a small and likely inaccurate blurb to go on.. One of South Florida's most cherished athletes, Alonzo Mourning, had to deal with kidney scarring and it wasn't an insignificant thing. That's why the blurb doesn't make sense to me..
     
  47. COMEBACKRICKY

    COMEBACKRICKY Superbowl MVP

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    No you will not get edema at 42% efficiency.. There are millons of nephrons in each kidney and this redundancy is good for situations like this. Also its the same reason why you only need one kidney to survive, which is theoretically at 50% efficiency.. What did you have? If its an autoimmune disorder that was affecting ALL your glomeruli and which is why you had the edema. Your kidneys were not working at all. Jamar still has enough kidney function to get by and be largely asymptomatic. You dont really see edema until your kidneys are really messed up.

    There are a lot of medications that effect the kidney.. Medications ranging from antibiotics to asprins. Lisinopril is an ACE inhibitor and that could lead to kidney damage. That is most likely what they were giving him to control his high blood pressure but that could damage the kidneys in certain patients.. We learned you're not supposed to give ACE inhibitors with certain diseases states because the GFR, or filtration rate, can become decreased to dangerous levels and thats what happened with Jamar.

    In other patients, such as yourself, it could actually help lessen the load on the kidney and help it out. You don't have to share with us if you dont want to but do you have diabetes as well? Lisinopril definitely helps improve kidney function in diabetics.
     
  48. catch22

    catch22 New Mexico Fin Fan

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    Check out the link to the video below.
    [video]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap2000000165700/Grading-the-trades-in-the-NFL-draft[/video]

    The NFL.com guys compare the value of the falcons trading up to get Desmond Trufant vs the value of Jamar Taylor and these guys almost all had Taylor as a better or equal prospect even though we got him in the second round. They however did not talk about his kidney concerns. It is definitely an interesting video to watch even though they do not cover the trade up for Jordan



    I think this kid was a steal where we got him. Lets just hope his body heals up. The power of the human body to heal itself once it is being taken care of properly is amazing.
     
  49. cltchperf

    cltchperf Pro Bowler

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    nope. thats why i found it weird that you said lisiniprol can hurt the kidneys, because my nephrologist that I saw and still see wouldn't have had me take this if it were to hurt my kidneys, it actually helps mine. Idk why it would hurt some and not mine or others. 42% efficiency seems like a realy low efficiency level unless its for one kidney and the other one is fine and not meaning the overall production of both kidneys. People said once 42% efficiency happens the kidneys can be scarred and renal failure can happen after going lower. I didn't think mine were worse than 42% or lower. They are damaged but I would think if my kidneys were more messed up than that, I would have had kidney failure and never recovered, but I did and my kidneys are pretty good, not perfect of course but pretty good.

    you said you just got done studying the kidney. Are you a doctor or someone in the medical/health care field? Or you a student majoring for a career in the medicual field thus the studying and knowledge?
     
  50. COMEBACKRICKY

    COMEBACKRICKY Superbowl MVP

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    Yeah I'm sure your nephrologist is right and it helped you out in your situation, I just said that in certain instances ACE inhibitors would make the problem worse. ACE inhibitors are for bringing down blood pressure but sometimes the kidneys need to ramp up the pressure in order to get enough blood into the glomerulus for filtration. One such example is if you have renal artery stenosis which means the blood going to the kidney is smaller or hardened.. The kidney would release aldosterone to increase blood pressure so that enough blood would push through the stenosis in order to get into the kidney for filtration. If you use ACE inhibitors with these patients, the kidney would not receive enough blood and it will result in kidney failure. I think the would prescribe Calcium channel blockers in this instance.

    I'm not doubting your doctor at all, what I'm saying is that the situation you had could be very different from Jamar so the medication wouldn't be the same. In your situation I would guess that your kidneys were below 42%. Everyone is a bit different but since your kidneys were bad enough to where you had edema then they were barely doing their job. I've seen patients with poorly functioning kidneys that looked completely normal.

    As I said in my previous post, the kidneys do very good job of healing themselves in certain instances but in some cases it's imposible to expect recovery. It sounds to me that you suffered from an acute affliction (quick onset) and once you were given the steroids your kidneys were able heal. So you can and did recover. Chronic kidney problems you wouldn't be able to heal since the kidneys are past the point of healing. I'm glad that your kidneys are working well :hump:

    Like you've been told you don't want to be in a prolonged state of renal inefficiency because thats when the kidney gets damaged from not getting enough blood and scarring can develop. So far that sounds like what happend to Jamar but I can't find an article that talks about it more in depth. If he did have kidney scarring then it's not something that his kidneys can recover from but the blurb contradicts itself since it says he is expected to heal :confused: So I'm not sure if it is an acute thing or a chronic thing but if it was a situation in which the doctors felt like his kidneys were inadequate I would assume this would be a much bigger story. But yeah, at 42% efficiency most people will be fine outside of the hypertension and fatigue the issue here is that it could easily get worse and worse until he goes into kidney failure.


    Seems like nobody is talking about his kidneys! Thats whats really leading me to believe its not actually kidney scarring they must've made a mistake in that report. It's probably just tubular necrosis which he could recover from. Biggest thing is that they found out about this before it got any worse. I'm surprised they caught it at the combine, I don't think they actually test for kidney function but he must've had abnormally high levels of protein in his urine and they told him that he needs to get it checked out.

    And yes, the human body is awesome :hi5:
     

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