Keenan Allen, Justin Hunter, Robert Woods, who do you target in next years draft? | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Keenan Allen, Justin Hunter, Robert Woods, who do you target in next years draft?

When you are drafting in the middle rounds you aren't going to find many prospects with everything. In those rounds teams tend to look for players with some preferred traits, because they can not get them all. Once again, I think it would be helpful to re-read my initial post where I thought it was clear that I am talking about our marquee #1 draft pick--not our middle round picks. Of course, they will want size there too, but the reality is that the middle round picks will be much harder to find that size and some of what they want will be sacrificed. This is why I mentioned someone like Cordarelle Patterson would be ideal, but would be hard to get in the middle rounds.

As for listed heights ... I simply ask you to notice the next time Randall Cobb stands next to James Jones and let me know if that looks like only a 3" difference to you. Does Greg Jennings look 4" shorter than Jordy Nelson to you? The listed heights and weights of players aren't always completely accurate. Some players they want to create the perception that they are not small, while others they want to create the perception that they are not big, still others the perception that they are not fast. IMHO, it doesn't make a difference when a team fiddles with listed heights/weights, but teams still do it.

Yes, I consider James Jones a big receiver. I consider Green Bay's main WR's to be Jennings, Nelson, Jones, and now Cobb. Of those I see Cobb--listed at 5'10"--as the one that stands out from a size/agility perspective.

I agree that if Marquise Lee were coming out this draft I think he would be very highly rated by everyone. He is a very talented receiver and will be highly sought after when he eventually does enter the draft.
 
Digital said:
When you are drafting in the middle rounds you aren't going to find many prospects with everything. In those rounds teams tend to look for players with some preferred traits, because they can not get them all. Once again, I think it would be helpful to re-read my initial post where I thought it was clear that I am talking about our marquee #1 draft pick--not our middle round picks. Of course, they will want size there too, but the reality is that the middle round picks will be much harder to find that size and some of what they want will be sacrificed. This is why I mentioned someone like Cordarelle Patterson would be ideal, but would be hard to get in the middle rounds.

As for listed heights ... I simply ask you to notice the next time Randall Cobb stands next to James Jones and let me know if that looks like only a 3" difference to you. Does Greg Jennings look 4" shorter than Jordy Nelson to you? The listed heights and weights of players aren't always completely accurate. Some players they want to create the perception that they are not small, while others they want to create the perception that they are not big, still others the perception that they are not fast. IMHO, it doesn't make a difference when a team fiddles with listed heights/weights, but teams still do it.

Yes, I consider James Jones a big receiver. I consider Green Bay's main WR's to be Jennings, Nelson, Jones, and now Cobb. Of those I see Cobb--listed at 5'10"--as the one that stands out from a size/agility perspective.

I agree that if Marquise Lee were coming out this draft I think he would be very highly rated by everyone. He is a very talented receiver and will be highly sought after when he eventually does enter the draft.
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They lie in college about heights and weights...sometimes as much as 3" on a players heights (Saban is notorious for this and it gets proven every year at the combine) but in the NFL they may round up if a guy height. If he measures 6' 0 1/2" NFL will list him as 6' 1"...but generally the NFL height measurements are spot on cause they come from the combine...weight is a different story.
 
Digital said:
I'm sure the Dolphins will interview Hunter closely and determine where his maturity level is at that time. You may be right; they may deem him too much of a diva. But, I suspect his combo of size (height+wingspan+leaping) and speed (vertical speed+quickness in and out of cuts) will put him both on and at the very top of Ireland's list along with Allen. Hunter's biggest issue might be the durabilty one. Assuming he can demonstrate health and solid durabilty from this point onward, I think he will be viewed as a less-refined version of AJ Green--and that is simply too good to pass up.

I think Allen will be assessed individually, but from what I've seen thus far I expect that he will be one of our marquee options. The only question I see is whether his top speed is enough to open up the run game. If not, they will likely pair him with a burner.

I addressed the size issue in my above post responding to CK's post, so I will let that illustrate why I believe our marquee day 1 selection will be at least 6'3. I can see us taking a sub-6'3 receiver in the later rounds, but for that marquee #1 slot I do think Ireland will insist on at least 6'3.
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Hunter is no where near the player A.J. Green is, not even close. Hunter drops entirely too many passes to be anywhere near that category and he has a tendency to fall to the ground when catch passes over the middle of the field giving up YAC to avoid a hit. Too many people fall in love with this guys measurables and don't look at the complete picture. I don't think he fills many of Philbin's criteria for a WR. I have now watched him in 3 games (NCST, Florida and South Carolina) and I've counted 9 drops in just those games.

And you do realize that Jordy Nelson was taken in the 2nd round and he's the only "tall" receiver the Packers have. All the others are between 5'10" and 6'1". I don't think we take a WR in the first round...we're picking too late for it to be an impact WR...but we will be in position to take a DE which we really need on this team.
 
this teams gonna be picking around pick #20...seriously doubt keenan allens getting there...very polished...although i have some reservations about his long speed...saw him get run down in the open field on a play against arizona st that i felt like he should have separated and scored...still at that size id he runs mid 4.5's or better i don't see him getting to us...one thing though kid comes off to me as a smart football player and route runner so he fits what we want and need for this o...

i'd pretty much tell you to eliminate any of these wr prospects that don't play smart or are problem children...i don't see them as fits at all...guys i do see in play are robert woods allen if he got to us marquess wilson if he comes out also terrence williams steadman bailey and in the slot i could see tavon austin or ryan swope...

think smart team oriented wrs and guys that can read coverage and db leverage...
 
The way I see Allen reacting to his QB (and brother) on the field worries me about his character. Sure his bro isn't as good a signal caller as Allen is a WR, but I would expect better support and fewer over-exaggerated displays of frustration from a genuine team player. Plus his speed is a question mark.

i don't really like any of Hunter, woods and Allen. Theres better talent in the first round. After the weekend I might have to revise my thoughts on Stills, he was poor. Marquise Lee still looks the dogs bollox.
 
allens brother is awful...shocked me it took so long for the frustration to come out...anyone but his family member and allen would have been showing his emotions sooner...allen is not a burner but he'll run in the low 4.5's if not late 4.4's i'd say...

kenny stills does some things well but he's not a target for me...not over a woods a allen a williams a bailey

i doubt hunter gets to us either cause he's gonna test really well and people are gonna bet on that upside...we'll have better shots at the other guys...hunter might have the most upside but he's too raw for my taste at this stage and with where he's gonna come off the board
 
Fin Thirteen said:
The way I see Allen reacting to his QB (and brother) on the field worries me about his character. Sure his bro isn't as good a signal caller as Allen is a WR, but I would expect better support and fewer over-exaggerated displays of frustration from a genuine team player. Plus his speed is a question mark.

i don't really like any of Hunter, woods and Allen. Theres better talent in the first round. After the weekend I might have to revise my thoughts on Stills, he was poor. Marquise Lee still looks the dogs bollox.
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If Stills makes an impact in the NFL he'll be the first to do it after being coached by Bob Stoops. Stoops has yet to produce a QB or a WR that has done anything in the NFL and while CK will tell you he doesn't pay attention to what school a player comes from or who coaches him I think it plays a big factor in predicting future success...not so much the school a player comes from but the coach.
 
hooshoops said:
allens brother is awful...shocked me it took so long for the frustration to come out...anyone but his family member and allen would have been showing his emotions sooner...allen is not a burner but he'll run in the low 4.5's if not late 4.4's i'd say...

kenny stills does some things well but he's not a target for me...not over a woods a allen a williams a bailey

i doubt hunter gets to us either cause he's gonna test really well and people are gonna bet on that upside...we'll have better shots at the other guys...hunter might have the most upside but he's too raw for my taste at this stage and with where he's gonna come off the board
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I can't see Philbin or Sherman having much time for a guy who throws tantrums when the ball doesn't reach him. Don't care how bad the QB is or the whole sibling rivalry thing. If anything, the worse the QB the more the WR should keep his mouth shut and support the guy. I hate to see that stuff and I bet Philbin would too.

Stills... Let's bear in mind he's a bottom of the second, top of the third guy. I think he has the package to be a very productive NFL Player, but the caveat about Sooners offensive talent from DaTruth is a valid point. But he was anonymous at the weekend, shut down by a Domer secondary that wouldn't be stellar, if it is decent. He was badly needed in a crunch game and he didn't deliver.
 
datruth55 said:
Hunter is no where near the player A.J. Green is, not even close. Hunter drops entirely too many passes to be anywhere near that category and he has a tendency to fall to the ground when catch passes over the middle of the field giving up YAC to avoid a hit. Too many people fall in love with this guys measurables and don't look at the complete picture. I don't think he fills many of Philbin's criteria for a WR. I have now watched him in 3 games (NCST, Florida and South Carolina) and I've counted 9 drops in just those games.

And you do realize that Jordy Nelson was taken in the 2nd round and he's the only "tall" receiver the Packers have. All the others are between 5'10" and 6'1". I don't think we take a WR in the first round...we're picking too late for it to be an impact WR...but we will be in position to take a DE which we really need on this team.
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IMHO, none of the WR's in the 2013 draft are in the class of Green and Jones. If they were then they would definitely be top 10 choices, possibly top 5 choices. But, of what is available, only a handful have enough upside without being extremely raw to be worthy of a first round grade. The three that seem to consistently be projected in the first round are Allen, Hunter and Woods. My guess is that how Allen's combine goes and how the rest of Hunter's season goes determines whether we have a shot at them at all. But, Allen is the closest to an NFL-ready and low risk pick. I see him as very high on a lot of boards. I expect Hunter's measuables to make him the more sporadically evaluated. Some teams will rate him top 10, others late 1st rounder; so it's possible we have the option to select him. If the team isn't completely blowing up the WR corps, then I expect that we will draft a deep threat with good speed. Allen really isn't it. Hunter may be. If you expected Hunter to be AJ Green 2.0, you're going to disappointed; but if you see him as a less polished version with size and deep speed who needs to work on the rest, then you're going to rate him highly.

As for the height thing ... I've explained it in detail on a prior page. Hopefully that explains why I believe that if we draft a WR in round 1 that he will be at least 6'3. That would rule out Woods in round 1. After round 1 you will not get everything so you have to sacrafice certain things. If Woods is available in round 2 I am certain the Miami braintrust would be delighted with him ... but most projections are that he'll be long gone before that.
 
hooshoops said:
this teams gonna be picking around pick #20...seriously doubt keenan allens getting there...very polished...although i have some reservations about his long speed...saw him get run down in the open field on a play against arizona st that i felt like he should have separated and scored...still at that size id he runs mid 4.5's or better i don't see him getting to us...one thing though kid comes off to me as a smart football player and route runner so he fits what we want and need for this o...

i'd pretty much tell you to eliminate any of these wr prospects that don't play smart or are problem children...i don't see them as fits at all...guys i do see in play are robert woods allen if he got to us marquess wilson if he comes out also terrence williams steadman bailey and in the slot i could see tavon austin or ryan swope...

think smart team oriented wrs and guys that can read coverage and db leverage...
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I doubt he will be there also... That pick should be used on a pass rusher or secondary player if he is not there.
 
Actually I could settle for DeAndre Hopkins and Ryan Swope. Both have good hand and are 6' and 6'1 respectively and both are 200 + pounds. Hopkins would bring big play ability and Swope runs great routes.
 
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