Knowing what you knownow, Matt Ryan or Jake Long?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sherif, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. Sherif

    Sherif Pro Bowler

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    Matt Ryan is already a franchise QB in his rookie season. That's pretty hard to top. QB has to be the toughest position to draft a winner in the NFL, followed by Left Tackle. It's a close call but I'd have to give the edge to Matt Ryan.

    I can't wait till the season starts and I hope we beat Atlanta.
     
  2. CW_McGraw

    CW_McGraw Scout Team

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    I'd still take Jake Long. IMO, if you surround any QB with enough talent, he can win you games. Matt Ryan is a solid QB, but far from spectacular. That team would've had similar success with Chris Redman at QB, frankly. I'm confident that, with our solid OL, good RBs, and deep corps of WRs with complementary talents, Chad Henne will be a competent starter. If he's Marino II, then Hooray.
     
  3. FinHopeful

    FinHopeful Starter

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    Jake Long! I am still a strong believer in building from the trenches.
     
  4. Kiick72

    Kiick72 Starter

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    Jake Long. My position was then and is now, No QB is going to be succesful with that garbage we had on the line going into that draft. Though Satele had played well in his rookie season and Carey did a good job at left tackle, the rest were just a bunch of guys that weren't very good.
     
  5. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    I would prefer to answer this question in 5 years but you would have to choose the QB over the LT every time if they are both pro bowl players. QB's are just to hard to find. Still going back to last years draft Jake Longs was the right move for the phins.
    1. He was the safe money pick compared to Matt Ryann.
    2. He fit the long term plans of the phins/Bill Parcells to build the team around a running game first and passing game second.
    3. Left Tackle was a big need for the phins last year.
    4. Probably the largest thing to consider is that the phins addressed the QB position in last years draft so until we see Chadd Henne play maybe we already have our own Matt Ryan on the team already.
     
  6. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    Are you kidding?
     
  7. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Who D Best?

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    Lets see: Jake Long and Chad Henne vs. Matt Ryan and John Greco or Jeremy Zuttah?

    I think Long and hard they made a great decision.
     
  8. Charlie Brown

    Charlie Brown down like a clown Charlie Brown

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    Still too early to tell...Depending on how Chad henne does and if Jake Long continues to get better. Henne could be just as good if not better than Matt Ryan, and if thats the case then obviously Jake Long would be the better pick, but still too early.
     
  9. Storm54

    Storm54 Rookie

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    Jake Long hands down. First there is no guarantee that Ryan would have done in Miami what he did in Atlanta. Secondly even superstar qb's can't do anything laying flat on thier backs. You start from the trenches and work your way out.
     
  10. CW_McGraw

    CW_McGraw Scout Team

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    No. In his limited playing time, Chris Redman was actually a serviceable starter. Matt Ryan had a good supporting cast last year, and now with Tony Gonzalez his weapons are second to only Brady. Redman could've at least lead the Falcons to a winning record. Michael Turner was the reason the Falcons made the playoffs. Matt Ryan just managed games. Long term, though Ryan's obviously a franchise QB and will be there in Atlanta making Pro Bowls for the next decade so it was still a good pick.

    In retrospect, I probably should've said that Ryan "was a solid starter," not that he "is a solid starter." I'd be surprised if he didn't become a top 10 QB next season.
     
  11. Ricky4Life

    Ricky4Life Repin the MIA in AZ!!

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    Still would take Jake Long, great LT's come along every so often, even average quarterbacks can be good if you surround them with talent. Look at what happened when NE transfered from Brady to Cassell for the year. They still went 11-5.
     
  12. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    Some of you are seemingly relating Matt Ryan to Joe Flacco. There has been argument of Ryan's rookie season as being one of the best ever for a QB.

    Jake Long was a terrific pick, but if Matt Ryan ends up being great there is no question he is more valuable.


    ps: the question never mentioned Chad Henne stop bringing him up
     
  13. ticophin

    ticophin Starter Donator

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    Jake Long in the Pro Bowl, rookie year and all, seemed like a boss amongst kids.....With LT being a position which, properly adressed, permits a good QB to have time and room to throw or move, not to mention what he can do to the running game....
    So today, june 9th, I say Long
     
  14. The Chaos Path

    The Chaos Path I'm Rude

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    Eh we'll see how Henne or White pans out. And if we don't draft Long we probably STILL end up with Pennington while Ryan learns the ropes, however I don't really know if we win 11 games without Jake Long... there were a lot of CLOSE games last year.
     
  15. Bta72dolphins

    Bta72dolphins A True Fan

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    jake long by far. I hope he becomes the leader of our o-line and others follow his work ethic and put up a protection like he can.He is increditbly smart on what he does and the right amount strength, height, and size can not be match His weakness i believe is speed, but as the years go bye he will certain get better at it. I think you can credit Long to Chad P success being that he found comfort on his left.
     
  16. JT-forpresident

    JT-forpresident Believe In Miami

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    this thread should be a sticky for the next 10 years lol... it keeps coming back every month and it's a pretty good debate, but there will be no answer until probably the end of their careers
     
  17. CW_McGraw

    CW_McGraw Scout Team

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    You say that like Flacco was utter garbage. For a guy to come from a DII spread offense and be as competent a game manager as any is as impressive as what Ryan did, if not more. There was an 8 game stretch where Flacco had a passer rating above 90. The sky is the limit for Flacco.

    People that would put Ryan's rookie season even over Ben Roethlisberger's are idiots. To compare his rookie season to Marino's, a crime on this forum, would be even stupider. That being said his rookie season was top 5 all time for QBs.
     
  18. juniorseau55

    juniorseau55 The Finheaven Intimidator

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    Matt Ryan vs Jake Long will always be a debate in these forums. They are both rare talents that are hard to find, specially Jake Long. If you were to put Matt Ryan and Jake Long on the same starting line up, clearly Matt Ryan will benefit more from Long than Long would from Matt Ryan. That is the way I see it, and how I value the selection of each player.
     
  19. xxAQUA JOSHUAxx

    xxAQUA JOSHUAxx Well-Known Member

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    If its jake long vs matt ryan then falcons got the better deal barely but if you add in henne compared to sam baker then we got the better deal.
     
  20. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Who D Best?

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    Baker went in the 1st so we had no shot at him.
     
  21. moksha

    moksha Active Member

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    Most of you are nuts! I like Jake Long too, but the decision is clear cut... Would you take Marino or Anthony Munoz? It's the same question. Talking about supporting casts and other factors is pretty irrelevant when the question was posed simply as Long vs. Ryan... not will Henne be good or Flacco or what not. Just knowing the talent of the two players as individuals, you have to take the QB every time! Every time! Picking a HOF LT over a HOF QB is an utterly rediculous argument and almost indefensible. Just like those of you who say there are other good QB's, I can say there are plenty of lesser known LT's that do a fine job. So the question becomes do you want HOF QB with very serviceable LT or a HOF LT with a very serviceable QB? There's no doubt! Let me have it, I can't wait to see the homer's rational reactions.

    Peace,
    B
     
  22. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    Still Long. Ryan is certainly doing very well, and would have been a great choice.
     
  23. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    A journeymen qb who has limited success? And a rookie who has all the tools and displayed them thru the season. The above sentence comes with no thought.
     
  24. R_t_Kraken

    R_t_Kraken A True Fan

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    Matt Ryan. I had my doubts about him on the pro level, and he silenced them, but can he do it two years in a row?

    I still love big Jake though, I expect him to be a multiple time pro bowler. Quarterback is still the most valuable position on the field.
     
  25. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Not even close, Jake Long.
     
  26. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    Most of you need to have your heads examined.

    Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano wouldn't hesitate to take Ryan, knowing what they know now.

    I have to believe that you guys are just huge homers.

    I mean I love Jake Long and all but my brain works.
     
  27. patswho?

    patswho? winner

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    It all depends on Henne

    Because if Henne is a bust, Pro Bowl LT vs. Pro Bowl QB, its the quarterback everytime
     
  28. dFinsRule

    dFinsRule Scout Team

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    Putting my Homerism aside, straight up right now,Matt Ryan. Quarteback is the most important position on a team! A better debate is Long vs Clady!
     
  29. outlawd2u

    outlawd2u Pro Bowler

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    You can't ask this question on a Phins message board. Almost everybody on here is going to say Jake Long, but if we had picked Matt Ryan and you asked this question then EVERYBODY would say Matt Ryan.
     
  30. X-Pacolypse

    X-Pacolypse A True Fan

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    Without question it's Jake Long. Never ever underestimate the importance of having a franchise LT.
     
  31. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    It is a good question and one that probably won't be answered for some time. I still think they made the right choice by choosing Jake Long. This team has lacked an elite franchise left tackle for a long time. By drafting Long, it allowed Vernon Carey who was a decent left tackle to move back to right tackle where he is very solid. We now have arguably the best bookends in the entire league on the offensive line.

    Without a solid offensive line, it hurts both the passing and running game. Even the best quarterbacks in the league will suffer behind a bad offensive line.

    Yes, Matt Ryan looks like the real deal at QB, but Long is also the real deal at LT. Plus, when looking at this, you have to also factor in Chad Henne. If, as expected by the front office, Henne becomes a solid NFL starter, there is absolutely no question about this pick.

    No one though should think we made a mistake by taking Jake Long. We got a Pro Bowl Left Tackle, and those are very hard to find. If Ryan becomes a Pro Bowl quarterback, then it is a discussion of which team got the better NFL star.
     
  32. mikethewreck

    mikethewreck Just a fan...

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    I think the question is a good one but a harder one to answer. On the surface the franchise QB is the better pick over the franchise LT. The reality is that the franchise QB is harder to identify than the franchise LT and the risks of spending a high draft pick and getting little in return (Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf all come to mind) is significant. The Trifecta needed to not fumble that play, and chose the safe, signable, bankable Long. I maintain that Ryan had a better pedigree than the above mentioned busts, but taking a QB is inherently riskier than taking a LT and when you are spending first pick money rule #1 is don't waste it. The pick might have been (a good argument could be made that it would have been) made differently had we known then what we know now but those decisions are never made with that foreknowledge. And I do believe that the Ryan-Long question is incomplete without looking at the Atlanta LT and Miami QB taken that draft. These questions will not be answered right away and may not be answered for over a decade, maybe not until Canton (Hall of Fame) gets involved (if it does).
     
  33. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Formerly Fiedler for MVP

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    So, are we off Brady Quinn now?
     
  34. BARF

    BARF ...FOR ME TO POOP ON

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    always have to take a franchise lt that is where it starts, he gives the qb time to become franchise qb
     
  35. Mr772

    Mr772 Pro Bowler

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    I think the reason we had been chewing up QB's is because our O line was so bad. Matt Ryan could have suffered the same fate.
     
  36. poornate

    poornate We may die, but our actions are immortal

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    I'm reading this the way it is written... all things even... a year later... you have to say Ryan. Doesn't matter who else plays where, just one against the other.
     
  37. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Atlanta's oline is not as good as some want to believe. Going into last season it was considered probably worse than ours
     
  38. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    This is true mot are hedging the success of Jake Long > M Ryan on henne possible not sure success...

    For this franchise knowing what the FO knows about both players at this point I still think they go Franchise LT not merely a PB once in awhile..., a franchise LT..., O Pace was ooutstanding for Trent Green and Kurt Warner in their SN runs... J Ogden Baltimore they got at least one SB..., I think the O will be run heavy with any Parcells team and while Rayn is good and maybe great he is not Dan Marino..., end that debate right now...

    At this point the FO would be delighted by J.Long ( and take3 him again - regardless of Pennigton) Long who has still not hit his own ceiling..., Long who gave Pennington time to locate his receivers..., Long who adapted well to the Wildcat...

    I would support M Ryan if he were a Dolphin but Long is the anchor of the offense for years to come..., had we chose Ryan over Long and our 2nd rd LT choice didn't pan out then V. Carey may be still our best bet at LT and then you still have RT to fill...
     
  39. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    1. Ryan is not Marino.
    2. The selection of Long extended beyond the LT position. As has been noted, it allowed Carey to move to RT, where he's about as good as RT's get.
    3. What's more important, a dominant O-line or a great QB? Assuming that Ryan = Marino (he doesn't), how many SB's did Dallas win with a dominant O-line and how many did Marino win - just being a great QB?
     
  40. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I would still take Long, as well as Ryan played last year, he still does have to prove himself for a 2nd years in a row.

    In College, he did very little until his final year, and as a QB, he had a lot of help to succeed, while Long was on an O-line that only had 2 players still there from the year before, and one of them was now playing a different position from 07.

    Long was one of the top linemen all through college, and looked great last year, Ryan only looked awesome in year 4, and very good in his 1st year of the NFL.

    Besides, for all we know, we could have a better product waiting for his shot behind Penny.
     

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