Its not just you.
Lewan’s Potentially Declining Stock Could Create Dilemma For Dolphins in the Draft
- Thread starter DKphin
- Start date
Its not just you.
I wouldn't like Moses at 19. He's rated too high, IMO. Not a premium athlete. This franchise desperately needs a guy who translates to great player in the NFL. I don't see how Moses qualifies. He's a classic case of someone who has jumped up the boards late. Too often that type of guy is over drafted. I've stated that I wouldn't be thrilled with Zack Martin but I'd greatly prefer Martin above Moses.
Lewan is tough for me. Despite his workout numbers he often looks like a klutz on the field. I tend to downgrade players like that more than I should. They can be a klutz but still effective if they have just enough mobility and are huge enough to engulf the rush end. McKinnie had some of that. Likewise Menelik Watson last year.
Lewan is tough for me. Despite his workout numbers he often looks like a klutz on the field. I tend to downgrade players like that more than I should. They can be a klutz but still effective if they have just enough mobility and are huge enough to engulf the rush end. McKinnie had some of that. Likewise Menelik Watson last year.
If Lewan falls to 19 the Dolphins will be rushing that slip to the commish.
Safe pick could be UCLA's Xavier S'ua-Filo at Offensive Guard. he has pretty big raps he is physically strong and is high character. It depends on how prepared Hickey is to gamble. Ireland gambled pretty heavily last year and we have good prospects but little on field results to date. Sounds to me like XSF would be a certain day 1 starter and probably hold down a Guard spot for years.
Roman529
Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew
Yeah he is a little top heavy and doesn't bend that well, but he is down to a svelte 314 pounds after being at 325-355 pounds.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
You have to understand why Moses was not rated high until this year. He was the right tackle at UVA. I believe Oday Aboushi had been playing left tackle since before Moses had even been recruited. Mind you, Moses was highly recruited. He was Parade All-American, SuperPrep All-American, four-star (at least) with pretty much every ratings service...but Aboushi was a third year with experience at left tackle and Moses was a redshirt freshman so they stuck with Aboushi at left tackle and Moses at right tackle until Aboushi graduated. Sometimes it's just not as easy to get on everyone's 1st round radar as a right tackle unless you're related by blood to Bruce Matthews.
As for whether Moses is a good athlete, I'm not entirely sure why he had such a bad day at the Combine but he clearly did. There was more going on there than just the differences between stopwatches or surfaces. The slowest stopwatch at his pro day had him at 5.06 seconds at 6'6" and 314 lbs. The fastest had him down well into the 4.9's. He's got an 84 inch wingspan. I think only Daniel McCullers has a bigger wingspan. Moses wingspan is actually bigger than guys like Kevin Love and Blake Griffin.
On tape Moses always looked to me like a guy with a ludicrous frame who had a lot of latent athleticism but hadn't quite gotten out of some of the awkward stages of body movement yet. Jason Pierre-Paul was similar, as was Chandler Jones. So was Anthony Collins. I've seen so many guys like that go to the pros and just get tighter, more intentional. He reminds me a lot of Bryant McKinnie.
The key is really that Miami has already filled their left tackle spot with a high amount of guaranteed coin and so what they're really looking for is a right tackle. Don't let anyone try and BS you into thinking Hickey has set the team up to take the best player available or anything. Hell even Steve Ross flat out said at the owners meetings that they're getting a right tackle in the draft and probably sooner than later.
So if this is what you're going to do, take a right tackle because that's what you need, and mind you I disagree with the practice altogether but let's say this is what you're going to do, then to me you take a guy you know can play it. Do we really know that about Zack Martin? He's played right tackle two games his entire career and they were way back in 2010 when he was a freshman. And he doesn't have the kind of frame that makes you positive just by eyeballing the man that he can play it.
History is littered with the fallacy of the thinking that a tackle is "safe" because even if he can't quite play left then surely he can play right tackle or left guard. I remember way back in the day Kenyatta Walker, left tackle all his time at Florida, being taken by the Buccaneers thinking it's safe because at worst he can play right tackle. He sucked at right tackle, complained the whole way that it was like trying to write with his left hand while being right-handed. Jonathan Martin viewed to be safe because even if he didn't have the ability to play left tackle, surely he could play right tackle. He sucked equally at both. Eric Fisher a career left tackle at Central Michigan (31 of 35 starts) and Luke Joeckel a career left tackle at Texas A&M (37 of 37 starts)...the Chiefs and Jags take them high despite the presence of left tackles on roster. You figure hey it's safe to play these guys at right tackle even though you've rarely if ever seen them play it. Except it wasn't. They were really not good at all as right tackles. Lane Johnson improved fantastically from first half of 2013 to second half of 2013, and coincidentally he'd played right tackle for a full season as recently as 2011.
The best right tackle of all of them was Justin Pugh (to be fair, a career left tackle at Syracuse), who was drafted lowest of all those guys. To me this is evidence that when you're taking a guy whose value and skill set you THINK you know, and then inserting at a position you've not seen him play, you insert a lot of risk and unknown into the equation. It could go one way, it could go the other, but chances are it's not going to go how you think it's going to go.
On that basis I don't see how Miami could take Zack Martin (whom they've never seen play right tackle) at 19 overall over Morgan Moses (whom they've seen play right tackle for two years in Bill Lazor's offense).
I'm not saying Morgan Moses would be my pick at 19, but it would be a better pick Zack Martin. Fewer unknowns.
AFCMiamiEast
Active Roster
Am I the only one who finds that f'ing hilarious? :lol2:
Pachyderm_Wave
Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ
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If Miami wants to make right tackle that much of a priority, they can do a lot worse than Morgan Moses in my opinion. I think he's an NFL player through and through. The prior connections to playing for Lazor also has merit. Coaches have a sense of comfort with what's familiar to them. A lot of times they get burned at the stake for it by fans and media... but that's the way it is. Right or wrong, they don't know what he knows.
I watched Ray Roberts play tackle for Virginia in the early 90's... Moses is reminiscent of Ray Roberts in terms of frame and movement skills. Roberts was a pretty good tackle in the NFL for about a decade.
I understand what Awsi Dooger is saying here though. He would legitimately like to see his team start infusing it's roster with truly elite talent in the draft. He's not wrong there either.
I watched Ray Roberts play tackle for Virginia in the early 90's... Moses is reminiscent of Ray Roberts in terms of frame and movement skills. Roberts was a pretty good tackle in the NFL for about a decade.
I understand what Awsi Dooger is saying here though. He would legitimately like to see his team start infusing it's roster with truly elite talent in the draft. He's not wrong there either.
finsfanjay13
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Saves Miami from having to go overpay the free agents...
I've said it a bunch so far: I badly want Miami to get a receiver out of this draft ... and early. Too much good-to-great talent to pass up.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Count me among those that would like to see the team go for potential star talent as well.
But if you're dead set on the "hole filling" approach and right tackle is the hole you've got to fill, Morgan Moses is probably your guy.
Good to see you posting, sir.
I do agree that Moses makes more sense as a RT (5th best OT in the draft imo) prospect than Martin, but Christ on a cracker . . . With the talent we'd bypass to select either at 19, brutal stuff.
hoops
Tua time!
Well Zach Martin ripped his pro day a new one and there's talk he won't get to us anyways...so you may just get your slug right tackle moses
I tend to agree, but with a few exceptions. I like Moses, the compelling size and some compelling film of him at LT are there. But he really isn't a great athlete, more of a huge, long armed guy. He's good in pass pro with that frame and long arms and he has some lean in the running game, but he's just not a dominant athlete. Good candidate for RT and backup LT, but a 2nd rd talent imo. For a while I was thinking 1st rd, but the more I look I just can't see it. Lewan- another guy that I like and he sure is fast in a straight line, but he can look choppy in his kick slide and mirroring.
Martin- I didn't see much pro day film, just a few seconds, but there's a guy that looks a little bit lumpy but doesn't play lumpy. Quick feet, aware, great reflexes, moves in position quickly to neutralize his man. If the choice was based on movement and positioning I'd take Martin easily over Moses and over Lewan, and I'd probably take Martin over both of them in general. In short, if Martin is available at #19- welcome aboard. I'd have no qualms playing him at LT, Guard and certainly not RT- no reason at all imo to think that he can't play RT very well in the pros, adapting from the left side in college.
And as to Menelik Watson- that was my guy last year, pains me that we could have had him in the 2nd rd. I didn't see him as klutzy at all, more of a planet theory big man with great feet and reflexes that reflected his training in boxing and basketball. Would have been a great addition for us at RT imo, maybe even LT.
dolfin530
Student of the Game
Can we get someone with potential star talent at 19. It doesn't seem like anyone like that will be available.