Luck, Griffin, & Wilson vs. Tannehill & Weeden: An Objective Analysis (Part I) | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Luck, Griffin, & Wilson vs. Tannehill & Weeden: An Objective Analysis (Part I)

Shouright

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Couple ways I'm going to come at this here.

First, I'm going to take a look at the passing offense these rookies were asked to run this year, in comparison to the passing offenses run by the league's best quarterbacks.

Second -- and this will be relegated to "Part II" of this thread (this is Part I) -- I'm going to look at how the "successful" rookie quarterbacks -- Luck, Griffin, and Wilson -- performed, in comparison to the "unsuccessful" ones -- Tannehill and Weeden. I put "successful" and "unsuccessful" in quotes because you may disagree with those appraisals, and so those labels are being used for the sake of comparison only.

So let's take a look first at the kinds of passing offenses these rookies were asked to run this year, in comparison to the passing offenses run by the league's best QBs. Since we're comparing five rookie QBs to each other, I've decided to use the five best veteran QBs to provide a frame of reference. Those QBs are, in no particular order:

1) Aaron Rodgers
2) Tom Brady
3) Drew Brees
4) Matt Ryan
5) Peyton Manning

I think the first way we can look at the kinds of passing offenses the rookie QBs were asked to run is by asking ourselves, how much passing were they in fact asked to do? Of course an offense can lean predominantly on the run game, lean predominantly on the passing game, or try to achieve a balance between the two.

Here are the data in that regard, in terms of number of overall pass attempts per game this year:


QB

Pass Attempts Per Game

Tannehill

32.27

Luck

39.19

Wilson

24.56

RGIII

26.2

Weeden

34.47

Brady

39.81

Manning

36.44

Ryan

38.44

Rodgers

34.5

Brees

41.88

I've run some statistical tests with these data (and the others to follow below), and what they show is that Andrew Luck was asked to pass significantly more than the average of the rookie QBs in the sample, while passing non-significantly less than the average of the veteran QBs in the sample. In other words, in terms of the overall amount of passing Andrew Luck was asked to do this year, he functioned not unlike the league's best veteran QBs, and very much unlike his fellow rookie QBs.

By contrast, every other rookie QB, even Brandon Weeden, with nearly 34.5 attempts per game, was asked to pass significantly less overall than the average of the veteran QBs in the sample. So by that, Andrew Luck is distinguished from his fellow rookie QBs even further.

Also by contrast, RGIII and Russell Wilson were asked not only to pass the ball significantly less than the veteran QBs in the sample, but they were also asked to pass nearly (statistically) significantly less than their fellow rookies. Ryan Tannehill, although asked to pass the ball significantly less than the veteran QBs in the sample, was not asked to pass it less than his fellow rookies. Nor was Brandon Weeden.


Now, not only can teams have their quarterbacks throw the ball more, as did Andrew Luck's, but of course they can vary the types of passes they ask their quarterbacks to throw. Some NFL offenses feature a short passing game, while of course others go downfield more often.

I thought it would be interesting to take a look at this aspect of these rookie QBs' performance this year, so I dug up the numbers of passing attempts each of them had as a function of how far they threw the ball in the air, figuring that would be a sufficient indicator of the kinds of passing offenses they were asked to run.

Here are the data -- once again, these are yards the ball was thrown in the air:

[SUB]QB[/SUB]
[SUB]Attempts Per Game of 20 or Fewer Yards[/SUB]
[SUB]Attempts Per Game of 21 or More Yards[/SUB]
[SUB]Tannehill[/SUB]
[SUB]25.47[/SUB]
[SUB]2.8[/SUB]
[SUB]Luck[/SUB]
[SUB]30[/SUB]
[SUB]5.19[/SUB]
[SUB]Wilson[/SUB]
[SUB]19.88[/SUB]
[SUB]3.5[/SUB]
[SUB]RGIII[/SUB]
[SUB]22.73[/SUB]
[SUB]2.2[/SUB]
[SUB]Weeden[/SUB]
[SUB]30.93[/SUB]
[SUB]3.47[/SUB]
[SUB]Brady[/SUB]
[SUB]30.94[/SUB]
[SUB]3.94[/SUB]
[SUB]Manning[/SUB]
[SUB]30.81[/SUB]
[SUB]3.75[/SUB]
[SUB]Ryan[/SUB]
[SUB]32.56[/SUB]
[SUB]3.13[/SUB]
[SUB]Rodgers[/SUB]
[SUB]26.63[/SUB]
[SUB]3[/SUB]
[SUB]Brees[/SUB]
[SUB]34.75[/SUB]
[SUB]4.44[/SUB]

Now this needs no statstical analysis. You can eyeball it. Obviously Andrew Luck was asked to pass downfield at far greater a frequency than his fellow rookie QBs. In fact, he was even asked to pass downfield at a significantly greater frequency than the average of the five veteran QBs in the sample!

And who was asked to throw the ball downfield the least? That's right: the rookie QB with the highest QB rating of them all, and the second highest QB rating in the league at 102.4, none other than RGIII (a preview of "Part II" of this thread).

Ryan Tannehill was similarly asked to run a conservative offense in terms of downfield passing, in comparison to the veteran QBs in the sample. His number of attempts of 21 or more yards per game was significantly less than that of the average of the veteran QBs in the sample. On the other hand, neither Russell Wilson nor Brandon Weeden passed downfield significantly less frequently than the veteran QBs in the sample.


So what we see here overall is that, of the rookie QBs this year, Andrew Luck was asked by far to run both the most emphasized passing game, as well as the most aggressive (i.e., downfield) passing game. RGIII on the other hand ran what you could call perhaps a "dumbed down" passing offense, in that his number of attempts overall, as well as his number of attempts downfield, were much fewer. Ditto for Russell Wilson with regard to passing attempts, although he did go downfield much more often than RGIII, but nowhere near as often as Luck.

Ryan Tannehill was a middle-of-the-road guy in terms of overall passing attempts in comparison to his fellow rookies, though his passing offense was conservative in comparison to the veteran QBs in the sample. And poor Brandon Weeden. Not only was the guy asked to pass the ball quite a bit overall, but he was also asked to pass downfield quite a bit in comparison to not only his fellow rookie QBs, but also to the veteran QBs in the sample.

Part II, coming soon. :)
 
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The West Coast Offense emphasizes the short pass but I wouldn't characterize it as non-aggressive. Also, the fact that Dolphins don't really have a deep threat has to be a factor as well
 
Good work

With my eyes I can see Tannehill is looking to bomb it, just got to get him the right personnel o let him chuck it where he can be at least slightly successful
 
Wow that really shows how we lack any type of downfield passing game. 2.8 attempts per game of more than 20 yrds? Sheesh. How about 1-2 times per quarter, thats what i want to see.
 
Wow that really shows how we lack any type of downfield passing game. 2.8 attempts per game of more than 20 yrds? Sheesh. How about 1-2 times per quarter, thats what i want to see.
How do you make sense of Tannehill's frequency of downfield passing in comparison to RGIII's?
 
I never liked Weeden and still think he was an awful pick.
 
Wow that really shows how we lack any type of downfield passing game. 2.8 attempts per game of more than 20 yrds? Sheesh. How about 1-2 times per quarter, thats what i want to see.

Problem was that Rt17 wasn't very accurate on those longer throws. early in the year he was 4 of 7 over 31 yards and led the league, Then he missed his next 8 long passes to end the year. And about 6 of those 8 where TD's if RT17 put the ball in the receivers hands.
in the end he was 4 of 15 on passes over 31 yards and only 10 of 27 on passes between 21 and 31 yards in the air.

You have to complete more to consider attempting more, otherwise you'll be punting alot. Our offense seemed to need all 3 plays to go right to get a 1st down and continue the drive.
 
Nice analysis. What I'd really like to see is an analysis of passes thrown in the air 7 or less yards past the line of scrimmage, 8-15 yards and 16+ yards.

The only reason I ask is that RGIII made an absolute killing on throwing the bubble screen behind or at the line of scrimmage. That throw requires almost zero skill, pads your completions and TD statistics and is nearly impossible to hurry or intercept. Literally, only a tipped/bobbled catch or a horrific QB decision stops that stat-padding play. But, the play only benefits the offense if your WR catching it is explosive and the other WR's block.

Washington had the WR's with explosion and blocking ability to run those plays. Most of the other rookie QB's didn't. RGIII ran bubble screens and ran them well, but they aren't the type of throw that tells you anything about how a rookie QB is performing. in my analysis I would leave those type of passes out of the equation. Even a traditional screen requires touch, but the bubble screen doesn't even require that.

Washington had by far the best WR corps. I think all of these rookie WR's would love to have that WR corps.
 
I've been on the Wilson bandwagon all the way, but I do think his status as a great rookie QB is over-stated by the media. What he was asked to do he did generally very well, but he leaned heavily on Marshawn Lynch, more so than any other rookie leaned on the run game. He was also given boots and rollouts a lot to help him find throwing lanes. No harm in that, provided you don't become a one-trick pony. Next season will be the acid test for whether that is the case. I don't believe it will be, but it's too early to call.

So, while he's already confounded most of his doubters simply by starting ahead of Matt Flynn AND helping guide his team to the playoffs, he hasn't proven yet what Luck and RGIII have arguably already proven. Some of you will remind me that RGIII is a chump who will ultimately prove to be a bust, but those of you less willing to prove yourselves right about him would agree he has been effective and pretty durable. He'll have to rein in his more impetuous instincts with the ball under his arm, but he is here to stay and is an artist among so many artisans.

PS Thanks to the OP for the time taken to do the analysis.
 
Great work and well thought out post.

If you ran these same stats for the careers of Joe Montana and Dan Marino, there would be a huge difference by comparison.............................but who won more super bowls? The west coast offense, though "not aggressive", is a proven offense to be successful in the NFL.
 
Nice analysis. What I'd really like to see is an analysis of passes thrown in the air 7 or less yards past the line of scrimmage, 8-15 yards and 16+ yards.

The only reason I ask is that RGIII made an absolute killing on throwing the bubble screen behind or at the line of scrimmage. That throw requires almost zero skill, pads your completions and TD statistics and is nearly impossible to hurry or intercept. Literally, only a tipped/bobbled catch or a horrific QB decision stops that stat-padding play. But, the play only benefits the offense if your WR catching it is explosive and the other WR's block.

Washington had the WR's with explosion and blocking ability to run those plays. Most of the other rookie QB's didn't. RGIII ran bubble screens and ran them well, but they aren't the type of throw that tells you anything about how a rookie QB is performing. in my analysis I would leave those type of passes out of the equation. Even a traditional screen requires touch, but the bubble screen doesn't even require that.

Washington had by far the best WR corps. I think all of these rookie WR's would love to have that WR corps.

RG3 did get alot of his stats by throwing passes behind the line or within 10 yards of scrimage and letting the receiver run. He had over 1400 yards 10 Td's and 3 Ints with this type of pass.

But RG3 also was able to complete the long ball. If you compare RG3 and RT17 on passes over 21 yards in the air you'll find pretty close in attempts completions and yards. But RG3 has 4 more TDs. Those missed TD by RT17 did not get misssed by RG3

RG3 15 of 43 for 552 yards 7 Td's and 0 Ints QBR 122.82
RT17 14 of 42 for 519 yards 3 Td's and 2 Ints QBR 85.32
 
RG3 did get alot of his stats by throwing passes behind the line or within 10 yards of scrimage and letting the receiver run. He had over 1400 yards 10 Td's and 3 Ints with this type of pass.

But RG3 also was able to complete the long ball. If you compare RG3 and RT17 on passes over 21 yards in the air you'll find pretty close in attempts completions and yards. But RG3 has 4 more TDs. Those missed TD by RT17 did not get misssed by RG3

RG3 15 of 43 for 552 yards 7 Td's and 0 Ints QBR 122.82
RT17 14 of 42 for 519 yards 3 Td's and 2 Ints QBR 85.32

the WRs also make a huge difference on those throws, burners like Garcon and even Moss still has great speed, its a lot easier to project a throw knowing your WR can get significant seperation from the CB and he doesnt have to make the perfect throw every time, the throw to Hartline for a potential TD against the Pats at home, it was debated a lot in a forum, where it looks like Hartline slows down even the slighest bit to find the ball and keeps looking back at the ball instead of running straight ahead, even this past patriots game yes he missed a wide open bush but he was drilled as the ball was being let go he could not step into his throw, also look at that Binns TD drop, that was a perfectly placed deep ball inbetween the CB and the Safety and Binns just drops it, does Garcon/Moss/Wayne/Rice/Tate drop that pass? I doubt it, but it is what it is at this point

And like another poster mentioned when RT drops back especially off playaction you can see him looking and wanting to go deep down field, but as we saw in the Pats game the WR could just not get seperation and RT either took a sack or in other games took the shorter check down

I know Clay gets some criticism on here but if you look at 2 of Tannehills deep well placed TD passes, Colts game/Seahawks game, Clay is a mismatch, he got great seperation from the LB and Thill found him and lead him to the fingertips, i hope he can comeback 100% and be utilized more
 
Problem was that Rt17 wasn't very accurate on those longer throws. early in the year he was 4 of 7 over 31 yards and led the league, Then he missed his next 8 long passes to end the year. And about 6 of those 8 where TD's if RT17 put the ball in the receivers hands.
in the end he was 4 of 15 on passes over 31 yards and only 10 of 27 on passes between 21 and 31 yards in the air.

You have to complete more to consider attempting more, otherwise you'll be punting alot. Our offense seemed to need all 3 plays to go right to get a 1st down and continue the drive.

You can't just force the ball in there on receivers who aren't getting separation or aren't able to finish a deep route and meet the ball where its placed. Do you ever stop to think that maybe Tannehill is putting the ball where he needs to but the receivers just aren't able to get to it?

The reason why I will put the burden on the receivers is because Tannehill's deep pass accuracy has never been a serious debate coming out of college. If coaches and scouts would rather talk about other parts of his game, then it seems this is not an area of concern for Ryan.
 
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