Mathis vs Turner vs Colledge?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by So Be, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I'm going to revisit this one last time because it still really bothers me. We could have traded a 3rd rounder (turned out to be Turner) for the best guy on the OL in the entire NFL last year (not only OG's). We end up with Billy Turner (who many love) in his place. Then we add Colledge at OG as well. If you let them both play together, they may not be close to as good as Mathis by himself.

    Yet, we pass. Maybe it was the money. I'm sure that Tannehill and our RB's agree that the $16M in the bank is much more important than a Great player on the OL.

    Anyone with a somewhat reasonable explanation?
     
  2. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    32 years old, making $5 million this year and wants a raise, high draft pick compensation needed. Short term it would be a great move, long term it wouldn't have. Mathis will make more money in 2014 than Billy Turner over the next four years combined. Four years from now, Turner will probably be solidified as a starter on the line, at 36 Mathis might be retired.
     
  3. PHINSfan

    PHINSfan FinHeaven VIP

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    Nublar makes a great point...but, man ohh man! It would have been great having Mathis playing with us this year!
     
  4. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    In all due respect, you have to be kidding me. You would prefer to roll the dice on a kid who may or may not ever start in the NFL over an All Pro? I could care less on if it's only for a couple of years.

    This is Tannehill's BIG year to succeed or, wait at least another 3 years. Why would anyone not want to give him the best chance to do that? Over money, and waiting for a Billy Turner to help him maybe in the next couple of years?

    Makes no sense to me at all. JMO
     
  5. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Prob age more than anything and money. I wouldn't trade a 3rd rounder either not that Im sane. There were guards we could have signed in free agency like Asomah that would not have broke the bank and are fairly young.
    Lets trade them Michael Egnew, Danial Thomas and throw in Dannell ellerbee to replace their broken linebacker lol. Of course they would balk but hey what the hell
     
  6. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    If your building for tomorrow you pass on a 35 yr old. If your building for today, your route is the road to take.

    People here are advocating the trade of Pouncey. So bringing in a 35 yr old lineman, would be up their alley.
    I believe in building inside out. But I also believe you build through the draft. Old line men and MIA recent history with them, is a no no.
     
  7. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    I also believe minus a complete melt down, Hickey and Philbin will be here for year 4.
     
  8. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Mathis is 32. BIG difference.
     
  9. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Yeah, those 3rd rounder do make a difference in winning. Who do we have left, OV and Turner? Then there was Jerry and Pat Turner in recent history.
     
  10. Mudder1310

    Mudder1310 A True Fan

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    If your goal is long term success you don't do it by signing guys who have a very limited shelf life. The best teams tend to build by drafting well and developing players. So it depends on your philosophy. Are the fins one lineman away from the Super Bowl? If you think they are then maybe getting Mathis makes sense.
     
  11. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    Well we did something sort of similar to that last year. We brought in a former pro-bowl right tackle. Now, there is a big difference between the popularity contest pro-bowl and the elite all-pro, but the veteran lineman had an atrocious time adjusting until near the end of the season.

    Mathis plays in a similar scheme and was a better player etc. But, OL is a lot about Synergy and chemistry. It takes time to build. Older players offer much less time post adjustment than younger players.

    So, when you are building a team around a young QB, you want to put those cornerstone young OL in place to protect him for a decade.

    What we should have done is draft Lane Johnson in 2013, but we didn't. We should have traded up to snag Lewan or Martin in 2014, but we didnt. We should have pursued the younger Monroe or Veldheer more vigorously. We should be on year 3 of building around Tannehill, but instead we are on year 1.5.
     
  12. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    8 12 34 43 56 9 < Saturday's $80+ million Powerball numbers.

    And now that I think about it, every one of those numbers has some sort of significant meaning to me. Why didn't I play them instead of the quick picks? I know it's in the past and there's nothing I can do to change it, but sometimes when so much is at stake and could totally have made things so much better, while it's useless mental masturbation, it's hard to resist. :idk:
     
  13. susser2000

    susser2000 Well-Known Member

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    I feel that a year makes a big difference for any player in their 30s (with the exception being QBs). You never know when an All-Pro will turn into a dud. I'm glad we took a chance with a young guy, let's see what he can do.
     
  14. mnphinfan

    mnphinfan Lifelong Fin Fan

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    The same Lane Johnson who was busted for taking PED's and is now suspended for the first 4 games of next season and one strike away from a year long suspension? No thank you. I'd much rather have Jordan.
     
  15. phinfan40353

    phinfan40353 Scout Team

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    Philbin and Staff work within their own players and abilities. Even when we bring in FA's, they immediately beef up the ranks with young kids. They use FA's to buy them time to teach rookies. They believe in coaching up talent.

    I was a little upset when we drafted Landry this year, considering the sheer volume of holes on the OL. But when they did, I realized it was predictable considering how much importance WR has to this staff. They will draft WRs and DBs like most teams draft QBs. We will constantly see new competition at WR and DB to keep pace with the modern pass happy NFL. They will always turn over rocks in those areas looking for new talent.

    I think people need to re-evaluate our "preparedness" for an injury such as Pouncey's. We turned over 4 starters on the OL and brought in new depth. With all due respect, if we had spent any more resources on the OL we would have created a talent debt at another position that would have perpetuated itself into each new draft.

    From Philbin's mantra about building and teaching talent, I honestly believe Colledge is here as veteran DEPTH. I truly believe Brenner and Larsen are the only true considerations for starting C and Turner will be pushing for RG. Colledge provides insurance for LG, C and RG. He is not a real threat to start.

    Consider this.... this year is very critical to Philbin and Tannehill's future. They will not complicate Tannehill's chemistry with a 3rd center (he has experience with Pouncey and Brenner) who will NOT be here after this year. Larsen has a strong potential future with this team. He and Brenner will be the key backups to G and C moving forward. And one of them might make Pouncey expendable or a leveraged asset when contract talks come up.

    You do not depend on a stop gap as a long term starter. So, I immediately do not think Colledge is in the mix for starting C.

    I think Larsen is our Week 1 C and Pouncey might be start getting worried about his job and spot on this team. Brenner becomes the Swiss Army Knife of the interior OL.

    I predict Week 1 OL is Albert, Thomas, Larsen, Smith and James. In time, I think Turner becomes RG. And Pouncey will have a lot to prove.
     
  16. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    Yep. The same one. Surrounding your franchise QB isn't an instant success thing ... and neither is drafting an injured and undersized position change like Jordan. By the end of this year I am confident that Lane Johnson will have played more snaps through 2 NFL seasons than Jordan.

    But that's not the point really. The point is that building around your franchise QB is important and not something you want to have to redo every 2 or 3 years. Let's get players we can have for the long haul who can grow with Tannehill.

    I like Jordan. I'm not one of his naysayers. But when you have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds and come away with only 3rd rounder Dallas Thomas for a woefully understocked offense ... that's not building around your QB. IMHO, Ireland missed the point there by putting all his eggs in FA's like Wallace, Keller, and Clabo; then neglecting the offense in the draft.
     
  17. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    All fair points on not trading for Mathis, which was somewhat of a pipe dream of mine until we signed Colledge. At 32, his play could have dropped off some but, he did not miss any time last year, led the Philly OL in pass protect giving up only 2 sacks and few pressures.

    However, my main reason for wanting him was for his run blocking, where he got an off the chats grade of +42. More importantly, when they ran middle left, it was 54 times for a 5.9 average. When they ran behind the LG, it was 52 times for an 8 yard average. This was much better than any of the Eagles OL who were all VG, and was not inflated. McCoy's long carries were 34 middle left, and 3o behind the LG, with Brown having one for 65.

    Even with a drop off, he would still be light years over the best we have. Having a run game is what RT needs to slow down the pass rush, open play action, and make some first downs. He would have given that to us.

    Over and done now, and we move on hoping for the best.
     
  18. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    32 or 35... I still dont pay that salary for him. The difference isn't all that big once they hit that wall. I still dont build with a 32 yr old.
     
  19. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    If MIA won't pay Pouncey, someone will. His abilityto reach the edge will make it so.
     
  20. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Not building, just looking to win and give Tannehill his best chance to succeed. No matter, it's over with.
     
  21. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    We should have made the effort to sign Sign Jon Asammah as a free agent. His contract is not bad in any way. Could have had a starting guard for the money we spent on a rotational DT. Had the money to sign both just don't understand how you ignore starters.
     
  22. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Many debatable choices on the OL, which I believe came down to money but, don't know for a fact. Ireland made a mistake on not trading for Albert last year. We can only hope that Hickey has not done the same in his choices.

    I'm far from an expert but, if the present and future of this franchise is dependent on Tannehill, which it does, I don't care much about overspending (to a degree) to give him his best shot to do so. IMO, the team has not done that as much as it should have.
     
  23. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Well when we keep focusing on third DE and third DT over starting olinemen we are always bound to fail.
    We could have drafted a decent OL prospect last year but chose to give up a second round pick to draft a DE which was 4th in our rotation last year. We spend good money on another DT while decided to pick up perpetual backup G Shelly Smith.
    I just don't get the strategy.
     
  24. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    You also say it came down to money and signing a guy like Asamah would have had minimal impact on our salary cap.
     
  25. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I cannot blame the other signing at all, as we are still sitting wit around $16M to play with. IF we would have filled in more on the OL in FA, maybe we could have drafted a LB with a bit of a move up.

    Oh well, it is what it is. I do not have Mathis, and we all have questions on the OL.

    Did you see the stats on the Eagles running behind Mathis? Unreal.
     
  26. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    We had like the same money last year to play with. That money is basically worthless in July. So we have three starting caliber DT's and maybe one OG gotta love that balance
     
  27. phinfan40353

    phinfan40353 Scout Team

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    I'm not saying he won't get paid. I simply think he has too much baggage with this staff and he's not a Philbin pick. Pouncey will not be a Phin next year, IMHO. But he will get paid.
     
  28. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod The Oracle

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    Are any of you guys old enough to remember George Allen? (not that this is like his situation)
     
  29. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    I think Larsen is no longer a Phin. Nice prediction on a 7th round pick.:lol2:
     
  30. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North A True Fan

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    Avoiding future cap hell by being cap responsible now most likely. BTW is Mathis a zone blocker?
     
  31. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    You really bumped this to say "I told you so" on an undrafted player? Whatever helps you sleep at night, bud.
     
  32. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    We could always play Pouncey at guard when he returns if Colledge is that horrible.
     
  33. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Why do you care? You taking the time to say something is also useless? Whatever helps you sleep at night.

    As for the bump, it was silly to assume a 7th rd pick would push a injured Pouncey. And the silliness was not forgotten. As Hayden pointed the same thing out.
     
  34. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    You mean like the one we had last year?? That is the scariest thought I have heard in quite awhile. If Philbin is here another 4 years this team will NEVER make the playoffs.
     
  35. MiggeMadness

    MiggeMadness Starter

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    Exactly... Trading picks away for guys that entering or in their last few good years. Successful teams avoid this. Successful teams are the ones on the other end of that deal...

    Case in point, a 32 year old Pro Bowl LG making over $5 million a year? That's right, the Patriots just made made that trade today...
     
  36. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    The problem is we'd have to give them Clay on top of a third or fourth round pick, is that something you'd be willing to do? What kind of damage do you think Clay would cause us with Brady throwing balls to him?
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean The one and only

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    Who is the 35 year old? Mathis is 32.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2014
  38. MrClean

    MrClean The one and only

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    So Jordan and Johnson are in the same boat.
     
  39. MrClean

    MrClean The one and only

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    Who is the 7th round pick you refer to? Our 7th rounder was Terrence Fede. I agree, it would be silly to assume Fede would push Pouncey. :)
     
  40. CalDolFan10x14

    CalDolFan10x14 Your QB for the next 10 years. Finheaven VIP Donator

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