Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by electrolyte, May 4, 2012.
I don't agree with the title of the thread. I think that Pacquiao and his camp are just as much to blame for the match up not happening up to this point. Floyd makes a statement that he offered Manny 40 million to meet him May 5th. He also said that he agreed to send 20 million of that within 48 hours if they would accept the deal. From what Floyd says, they came back saying it had to be a 50 - 50 split. Mayweather would not agree to that.
Does that mean that he's ducking Manny? I don't think so. IMO he had a valid argument. If the gates that he draws are consistently larger than Manny has been able to draw, why should he do a 50 50 split? Makes sense to me.....
Also, the look on Stephen A. Smith face says it all for me in that first video that you posted....
This fight needs to happen..But I also think that Mayweather needs to have a split purse..I would not mind a winner take all scenerio or stipulation....I dont know if Mayweather is ducking Paq or not..I just wanna see the fight happen
I agree that it needs to happen. I don't have anything to back this up with but I think that the Mayweather camp was suggesting somewhere in the neighborhood of a 60 - 40 split. Obviously, the 60 would go to Floyd. I'm not saying that I agree with Floyd's stance but I do understand it. I actually think that Floyd would go for a winner take all deal. I'm not so sure that Pacman and his crew would...
Stop this madness. Money May never ducked this goon a day in his life.
As long as Bob Arum is involved in all of this, this fight will NEVER happen.
Floyd wants 60-40, yeah.. and also 100% of the pay per view money. Pacquiao gets $0. You think that's fair?
---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 PM ----------
Look at that video.
He's scared. Ducking. By the way, Pacquaio already agreed to all the testing a long time ago. Mayweather scared.
I wouldn't rule out Timothy Bradley upsetting Pacquiao and getting a shot at Mayweather. I know it may be a long shot to some, but he's a local fighter here and has been impressive as of late. I've seen most of his fights up close and the guy can hold his own! Not a knockout guy but any means, but can box with the best of them. I could definitely see a match between Bradley and Mayweather in the not to distant future for a battle of "undefeateds" if Bradley were to catch PacMan by surprise.
That's probably fairer than 50 - 50 if Pack doesn't have a history of generating the type of payday that Mayweather has. Cotto got 8 million I think. Has Manny ever made 40 million?
He said he's not scared in that video.
If those two ever fought, Mayweather would walk away the winner.
Mayweather and Cotto was the second highest PPV in history.
Mayweather is the draw. It's not Pacman. And somehow people think he deserves the 50/50 split from the PPV purse.
Arum is ducking Mayweather. Arum knows that 60/40 is as good as it is going to get and if he ever agrees to that, Mayweather is going to beat his cash cow senseless.
I agree that Mayweather would win. I think he's the better boxer. but there is a very good chance Pacquiao can beat him.
but Pacquiao is very dangerous. Every fighter he has beaten has said that Pacquiao is the hardest puncher they ever faced, and this is including guys who fought mayweather.
Mayweather is scared of losing the 0. He's scared of his health. Watch the video. He's talking about not wanting to walk with a cane for the rest of his life, that he wants to keep his health rather than fighting Pacquiao.
Every athlete in the world talks like that.
Has nothing to do with Mayweather being scared. That's nonsense.
Pacman is incredible. Pacman does have a chance and Pacman is dangerous.
But he's not beating Mayweather to the point to where he needs a cane to walk.
Pacman, until recently(now is tied with floyd at #2), has been the #1 ranked p4p fighter in the world.
Pacman was the highest paid boxer in 2010 and 2011. Fact.
Floyd getting 100% of PPV is ridiculous and everyone knows it's just an intentional roadblock by Floyd so he doesn't have to fight Manny.
Ok, I am officially confused. You agree that Mayweather is the better boxer and he would win, right? How then do you come to the conclusion that he is scared to fight Pacquiao? Makes no sense.
If money is the thing that is preventing this fight from happening I have to say that Mayweather has a valid argument. Not saying that I agree but I do understand his premise. I asked you a question earlier. Has Manny ever had a fight that he has been guaranteed to make at least 40 million? Here's some information for you....
If Manny made more money than Floyd in the two years you mentioned, it's only because he fought more frequently. If they have each the same number of fights during the same period of time there would not have been a comparison....
---------- Post added at 08:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 AM ----------
Oh yeah, Canelo Alvarez got a couple of million in his fight against Shane Moseley. What did Sugar get? Somewhere in the neighborhood of $600,000. Is that fair?
It's one thing to offer 60-40 and then maybe like 30-40% of PPV money. but Floyd wants 100% of it and 60-40. that's a duck deal. Manny isn't Cotto. Manny has been the #1 ranked p4p fighter in the world (until recently)
and lastly, at what point do we begin to criticize Mayweather for not being a FIGHTER, a champion? At what point does this stop being about money, and start being about Floyd needing to prove he is the best in the world by fighting the best in Manny? Does that not count with you?
When Roy Jones Jr got DQ'd for hitting Griffin with his knee on the canvas, Roy Jones Jr immediately said "GIVE ME A REMATCH. GIVE GRIFFIN WHATEVER HE WANTS, I DON'T CARE. MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW"... then in the rematch, Roy went out there and knocked Griffin the F out in the 1st round.
that's what a true champion says. It stops being ALL about the money and starts being about personal greatness and pride. Floyd is no champion if he continues to duck MAnny and will forever be a ducking coward, imo. That video where he rants about his health and steroid use is pathetic. If Mayweather-Pacquiao never happens because Floyd refused a 50-50 because he rather take 60-40 and ***** about steroids and protecting his health, then he will go down as a coward. At some point you have to question this man's heart and personal pride on being the BEST.
What I want to know is how does boxing still make that kind of money in this day and age?
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All I know is that Floyd offered Manny 40 million guaranteed. Again, has Manny ever had that kind of payday before? I know that Mayweather wasn't willing to do a 50 - 50 split but I honestly don't have a clue as to what has been discussed other than that. I think that there was some talk that centered around possibly doing a 60 - 40 split but I would not stake my life on it. Being the #1 P4P fighter in the world still has not gotten Manny the type of cheese that he would get from fighting Floyd.
Man, Floyd is not obligated to prove anything to anyone! You & I may want to see that match take place but if he is not happy with what he feels his take would be, that's his prerogative! He determines what his worth is. It's his body!
Good for Roy! Different strokes....
:rolleyes2: Bro, you still ain't getting it. Mayweather has the right to decide what he is willing to accept for any fight. Fear doesn't necessarily have a thing to do with that. If I offered you minimum wage to perform the job you do at your current place of employment, would that make you scared or someone who was attempting to duck if you decided it was not acceptable? Obviously not! You would do your best to earn what the market bears, right?
You sound like a huge Mayweather nut hugger, bro. You are trying to turn this whole thing into strictly about money and business. No competitive desire or championship heart.
If you think it's OK for boxers to behave this way and not care about proving themselves to be the best and their place in history, then this is why boxing is dying. Has turned into a ***** fest of corruption and fighters cherry picking and ducking fights. Fans like you just nut hug and don't demand more. Any neutral boxing fan like me looks at this situation and calls it a disgrace. Floyd doesn't care about fighting the #1 ranked p4p fighter in the world. Yeah, Mayweather can do what he wants for "his body", and then we can label him a ducker, and a coward who lacked the heart of a champion to prove he was the best int he world.
Whatever. If you say that I am a Mayweather Nut Hugger I guess that I am. I mean you are accusing me of being that type of person and there is absolutely no way you could be wrong! The fact is the reason the fight has not happened probably has a lot more to do with money and than your silly fear assumption!
Boxing is dying but every time Floyd steps into the ring he gets P-A-I-D! And, I mean paid handsomely! You can call the guy whatever you want. I doubt that he cares one iota about your thoughts on the matter. He's got his coin and probably does not need to take another fight if he doesn't want to. At this stage in his career he most likely is looking for a few more excellent pay days and then he's done. What you or I feel about his heart, competitive spirit or whatever else you want to throw in matters little!
You never did answer my question. Has Manny ever had a 40 million pay day? Also, I would love for you to explain to me how you feel Floyd has not fought top notch competition and is cherry picking fights. I'm waiting.....
Well, since I am such a Nut Hugger and it seems I can't get you to answer my question. I'll just have to answer for you. The answer is NO! Manny has never made that kind of money on any of his individual fights. In fact, his next fight will pay him the most ever for his participation...
Now I ask you to check out a comparison of what both fighters have been able to earn in bouts since 2006. Bear in mind that Floyd's figures don't even include the Cotto fight where I think he was guaranteed to make at least 32 million.......
Maybe it's actually you who is swinging on nuts. Manny's. New Jack Swing style.... :chuckle:
Based on those numbers Manny would almost make more in one fight than he has earned in 10! I had not even looked up that info but now I have to say that there is no way Pacquiao should get a 50 - 50 split! Mayweather is right! Pacman needs Floyd more than he needs Manny! Pac ought to be ashamed of himself for even asking for that!
Finally, I am going to drop this one last thing, then I am done with Mayweather vs. Pacquiao. If it happens, it happens.....
Now, THAT sounds fair to me! I wonder if Manny and his team will go for something like that? I suspect that the answer would be no as it makes the purse somewhere in the neighborhood of what was already being offered!
Yes, you are a Mayweather nut hugger. It's sad bro. I'm a neutral boxing fan, to answer your question.
1) Mayweather earns more money per fight partially because he promotes his own fights. He's a free agent now. He keeps all of his earnings. Whereas, Manny has to pay Bob Arum and other people a lot of money. My statement that Manny was the highest paid boxer in 2010 and 2011 is a fact. Now, is it because he fights more than Floyd? Sure. But he also has to pay his promoters and other people, something which Floyd doesn't have to do and it inflates Floyd's earnings per fight.
2) What does it matter if Floyd offer Manny $40 mil? Just because "Manny has never earned that much before" doesn't mean Manny should say yes. Cmon man, this is simple business 101.
If you own 10 businesses, and all of your businesses have sold for less than $20 mil each, but the current business that you are selling is WORTH $100 mil.... are you really going to accept a $40 mil offer because "that's the most you have ever gotten".... ?? No. Value is value, independent of past sales. The business is worth $100 mil, doesn't matter what past sales were.
Same for Manny. Manny has been the #1 ranked pound for pound fighter in the world. He brings a lot of value to the fight and this will also be Floyd's biggest payday, not just Manny's.
3) At some point, you have to sit back and wonder where Floyd's competitive heart is. Manny has been ranked ahead of Floyd, as a better boxer, for a long time now. If Floyd is cool with retiring having never fought the best fighter out there, his legacy will be that of a coward and his place in all time greats will take a nosedive. You got to believe any real champion of the past, Ali, Robinson, etc.. would have made this fight happen already JUST TO PROVE WHO IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD ALREADY.
and the reason you couldn't "get me to respond to your question" is simply because I have already said my points. I would just be repeating myself to someone who is obviously drinking the Mayweather kool-aid and... it appears doesn't care much about boxing history. I'd never be cool with any boxer, even if it was my favorite one, to duck and dodge a fight that clearly has to happen.
You can New Jack Swing on Manny's nuts! Your argument is still severely flawed. The business part cracks me up! Manny shouldn't sell his business short but Floyd should simply to satisfy your warped code of honor? Who is really drinking the Kool-Aid?
I sort of feel like Al Pacino in Godfather 3. Every time I try to get out, you draw me right back in! Ok, Manny was the P4P King until recently, made more money than Floyd in 2010 & 2011 and he brings a lot of value to the fight. Did I get all of that right?
Mayweather makes more per fight because he promotes himself. Manny has to pay for promotion. They both have to pay others outside of what was just mentioned. Have you ever asked yourself this? If Manny is such the huge draw that you claim he is that he deserves to get a 50 - 50 split with Floyd, why does he still have to pay for promotion? Why isn't he a free agent? Maybe he would wind up making less?
Furthermore, if the fight happens it should be the largest payday Floyd has ever had! That still doesn't mean Manny should get paid the same as he has never shown that he can generate the type of numbers that Floyd can. It has nothing to do with those silly assumptions of yours (fear, scared, ducking, etc.). Bring in the accountants. Let them take a look and determine what each should get. I'm with that and in my opinion, it's fair. You need some theme music to go with your swinging. I'm gonna help you out...
Why doesn't Floyd offer 60-40 and 40% of PPV? 60-40 and 100% of PPV is a duck deal. That's not a fair offer.
Expecting fighters to have championship heart and wanting to prove themselves is "warped code of honor" ? I feel very comfortable knowing I have the moral high ground over you on this one. Many people would agree with me, in fact.... if this could somehow be related to the Dolphins... we would all humiliate a guy who is all about the $$ and doesn't value championship competitive desire.
and I already repeated myself. I am a neutral fan. I don't even root for Pacquiao as I don't like his boxing style.
Because he doesn't have to! Got it?
That deal is evidently fair to enough people and they don't appear to be budging. You know, after doing the brief amount of research that I have regarding this topic I am convinced that Floyd's assessment is more accurate that Manny's camp. The numbers speak for themselves. Floyd's businesses consistently sell for substantially more that Manny's!
Man, you don't have moral anything over me! Floyd has already proven time and time again that as a fighter, he IS championship caliber! I'm sure many individuals agree with him or he would not have taken the stance that he has.
You keep making that neutral fan statement and now you say you don't like Pac's boxing style.
I challenge you find anything in this thread or others where I claim to be a Mayweather fan. My first post in your thread was basically a statement of me saying that both camps were at fault for the fight not happening. As I mentioned above, my opinion has changed since my first post. It is abundantly clear to me that Floyd deserves to make more if the fight should ever occur. That has nothing to do with my allegiance, which I STILL have not stated. The numbers convinced me.....
A fifty/fifty split would be the most money floyd ever made as well. None but manny could pull that amount of cash for him either. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
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But, paying a 50 - 50 split to someone who has consistently earned half of what Floyd has been able to earn is plain foolish. That's the way boxing has been for quite a while. The fighter that has more of an ability to draw the huge paydays gets the most money. The numbers show that Mayweather has that type of ability. Why should the practice change now? Sorry, that ain't a duck Bro...
anybody who paid to see mayweather fight cottos corpse isn't all there anyways...that's a joke...mayweather just keeps making a ton of money off of a dumb public...
No argument from me on that point!
They're both yellow!
This isn't any other fight, this is the biggest pvp event ever, and the biggest fight in decades. Even a 60/40 split of everything would be far more than what they're offering manny. Here's the thing though, without manny it's just another mayweather fight. Same thing if manny loses before the fight. Mayweather will never make more than he would off of this fight. This whole drama is one of the reasons why I'm much more of a mma fan at this point.
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True it's not. It would be a huge payday for each. I think that the suggestion about using the accountants is probably best at least to establish the parameters. Right now both camps are taking approaches that almost guarantee that the fight will never happen. I happen to feel that Mayweather should be the fighter who gets the most out of the deal. If the amount of money each had earned was closer to the same I would have less of a problem with a 50 - 50 split. As is though, Manny just has not shown that he can draw that fight as well as Floyd can. Just my opinion now based on the limited amount of research that I have done.
The same thing goes on in the MMA also. If you think that GSP does not make more than say Nick Diaz, before his suspension, then you're fooling yourself. The sport is still relatively young so they have not been able to generate the type of money that Boxing has up to this point. It may never do that as well. So, the differences between pay outs are less drastic. Again, just another opinion.....
Who you callin' yella!?
they agreed to 50-50 once, and Pac's position has only improved since. So 50-50 is obvious. Over thinking it beyond that is ridiculous. We're not talking a guy who sells 1.5 vs. a guy who sells 800k. We're talking 1.4 vs. 1.3, 1.4 vs. 1.1, close differences like that.
and don't even try to act like Floyd brings in this money himself. Canelo was on the card twice.
then you factor in that Floyd -needs- this fight if he wants his undefeated record to actually mean anything...... Floyd needs to accept 50-50 and go out there and fight Manny.
Floyd's ranting about preserving his health when talking about Manny Pacquiao..... quack quack quack
First of all, I have never heard anything about them agreeing to 50 -50 deal before. Got a link?
Second, while they may genarate similar numbers for tickets sales and such, the people that pay evidently pay more per as he sure has earned about double what Manny has since 2006. That's even taking into consideration 2010 & 2011 in which you say Pac earned more. So, 50 - 50 still doesn't get it for me when you compare the value of the two fighters.
Oh yeah, that Canelo is still an up an coming fighter but he is a HUGE draw! :rolleyes2:
in 2009. yes they agreed.
and again, don't act like floyd is doing it all. Just need to get Chavez and Martinez on the undercard and put in on Mexican Independence Day. Sounds like something Floyd would do to fiddle the numbers, then claim that they are all his.
also, found this today :
FORBES WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL CELEBRITIES LIST IS OUT: PACQUIAO - #33; MAYWEATHER - #52
The annual list of the influential Forbes Magazine world's most powerful celebrities list for 2012 has just been released with boxing superstar and Philippine congressman Manny Pacquiao landing on number 33. Pacquiao's boxing nemesis Floyd Mayweather, Jr made it to number 52. This year's list is topped by American actress Jennifer Lopez followed by perennial top contender Oprah Winfrey on number 2 and teenage singing sensation Justin Bieber on number 3.
Seventeen athletes made it to this year's list headed by Tiger Woods (#12), Lebron James (#15) and Kobe Bryant (#27).
View the complete list here: http://www.forbes.com/celebrities/
Pacquiao, who last year earned US$67M and who also made it to the list in 2010 (#55) and 2009 (#57), was described by the magazine as "a pay-per-view stud with five fights each generating at least one million PPV buys during the past four years. Pacman has expanded his endorsement reach by signing deals with Monster Energy and Hennessy. Other partners include Nike and Hewlett-Packard. Pacquiao was elected to the House of Representatives in the Philippines in 2010 in a landslide victory."
The magazine considers the ranking of candidates in the following area in determining the celebrity's final standing: earnings, TV/Radio, press, social media and web.
Forbes will do a live webcast featuring the writers who put this year’s list together which could be accessed on the following URL: http://www.forbes.com/sites/dorothy...e-live-unveiling-of-this-years-celebrity-100/
So you say. Got a link? And, if it's actually true it sounds like Manny should have jumped on the fight in 2009! What held it up? Manny not wanting to be tested?
Floyd promotes himself, right? That's what you said. Am I right? Well then, as a promoter he should pull out every trick in his arsenal to make the fight earn as much as it possibly can. Even you would have to agree with that! Maybe Manny should get rid of Arum and start promoting himself......
The Forbes stuff is cool but it doesn't have anything to do directly with what boxing fans are paying for fights. Or, who they are willing to pay more to see. Manny still doesn't make as much as Floyd on fights. Therefore, Manny should not be entitled to receiving an equal share of the purse in my opinion.
IMO opinion Pacman would not beat Mayweather. Im a huge fan of Manny's but when it comes down to it Floyd can back up all the **** he talks. I don't think anyone out trains him.
I am simply a boxing fan with no allegiances to either fighter but I also don't think that Manny would win. :idk:
if mayweather was to fight pac the same way i saw him fight cotto pac will whoop his ***
Here's something to think about though. Mayweather went up in weight to meet Cotto. Miguel went down in weight to fight Manny. I think that Pac would have to move up to fight Floyd. I really don't think that Floyd would get his *** whooped fighting at his preferred weight..... :idk:
My prediction would be a unanimous decision for Mayweather.
mayweather better have been taking all that leather he took from cotto to entertain the fans...i kinda think that's what it was...but if he lets pac hit him like cotto did it will be good night...pac has a lot more power and is technically a superior fighter to cotto...that better have been some just to entertain the fans stuff...that's all i know...
the fight will probably never happen anyways...especially if people keep chunking out big money to watch them work over some guy completely outclassed every 4 months or so...
i'd like to see my young favorite new fighter to the big stage alvarez take on one of the big boys...his power and straight ahead style is a big time draw...i'd pay to see it
Ok, I'll play!
If Manny takes all that leather that he took from Marquez when fighting Floyd, it will be good night! I hope that he was doing that just to entertain the fans. Mayweather is technically more superior than Marquez and has good power. That's all I know...
I actually don't think that either of them is going to fight for much longer.
I like Canelo but I don't think that he's ready yet to fight Floyd or Manny. Oh, he would be competitive but in my opinion, he would fall short. I really wanted to see Alvarez against Kirkland. That fight appears to be off now....
i don't agree that mayweather has good power...to me he outpoints guys with hand speed and then when he gets ahead superior defense...if he did have very good power i think a lot of guys that i've seen him land clean crisp shots on would be on the canvass...
i agree alvarez probably isn't ready yet for pac or mayweather and his handlers i think are doing the right thing to date with him and i'd also like to see a alvarez kirkland fight...kirklands a tough son of a gun and i thought the fight i saw of his recently where he got knocked down in round 1 and then came back like wild fire later on can't remember who it was against was a great fight...that said i think alvarez has enough going for him where he'd win that matchup...alvarez though for as much leather as he gives out and his power is rediculous he takes a lot also...
Mayweather is definitely not a knockout artist. That's for sure! But, his power is respectable. If it wasn't guys would just walk through him regardless of his defense which tends to be top shelf.
That Kirkland fight was against "Perro" Angulo (sp?). I thought he was out it early in round 1. He not only came back in the same round to knock down Perro but basically beat him like he stole something the rest of the fight! Check it here....
Kirkland's conditioning is always great and he is a very active fighter for the most part. The concern that I have with him against Canelo is that James can be a little careless. I don't think that he would get away with that against Canelo but if he controlled the pace of the fight, he has a shot....