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me vs ogunleye

Ogun does what he does because Jason Taylor garners all the attention from other O-Lines. Taylor get the double team which leaves Ogun free. Not to mention Taylor got double teamed all last year ans still had almost as many sacks as Ogun. Taylor is twice the DE that Ogun is. Ogun is good, but to say he is as good or better than Taylor.......well, that's just silly.
 
Gary Miles said:
Remember the player (forgot his name) that went to the Raiders as a free agant after posting great sack numbers the year before? I think it was two seasons ago,,,, but I haven't heard anything about him since. Go figure? I say spend the money on CC and RM.
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TRACE ARMSTRONG :confused:
 
I think it's understandable that Ogunleye is looking for big money. I mean, he could get hurt at pretty much any time and have his career ended. He's right to try and milk it for all he can but the way he's going about it probably doesn't help him. Threatening teams you're going to sit out ten games isn't something I imagine helps your value when you're looking for a new team.
 
I think O-Gun is getting bad advice from his agent. Basically if he sits he makes no money this year (or very little). If the new LE does great and gets like 9-10 sacks then OG looks expendable by the time he "rides in to save the day" with six games left. If that's the case I see the Dolphins using him in a limited way, or not at all depending on how they are doing. He basically makes no money, doesn't showcase his talent, and looks bad in the eyes of most GM's. If he'd just play for the tender he's a million bucks richer, can out-do last years performance, can regain some dignity as a team player and could sign for a larger contract than he's trying for now when he becomes a UFA. Truth of the matter is OG and his agent don't see another big season like last year on the horizion, not that he won't play well, just that he'll garner new attention from O-lines. I sense a player trying to cash in while the irons hot, at the bequest of his agent.
 
Iamlegend said:
Jason Taylor... JT didnt play as great in '03 as he should have. I hope this season JT proves he just had an off season...
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:roflmao:

This may be the most rediculous statement I've seen on this board.

Just because JT didn't equal or exceed his '02 sack total doesn't mean he had an off year. I thought he was more effective against the run than ever before. 2003 was his best season! He was doubled every passing down.
 
:roflmao: ROFLMAO

This may be the most rediculous statement I've seen on this board.

Just because JT didn't equal or exceed his '02 sack total doesn't mean he had an off year. I thought he was more effective against the run than ever before. 2003 was his best season! He was doubled every passing down.
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IMO Iamlegend is right and you're wrong. His so called <ridiculous statement> seems pretty correct to me.

2002:
JT had 76 tackles, a team-high 18.5 sacks for 162.5 yards in losses, eight passes defensed, seven forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries in 2002.
Ranked first in the AFC and in the NFL in sacks, becoming the first Dolphin in club history to lead the NFL in sacks.
JT was arguably the most dominating DE in the game during the 2002 season
( One could argue in Strahan's case of course)


2003:
JT had 71 tackles including 13 sacks for 70 yards in losses, two fumble recoveries (including one returned for a touchdown), and three forced fumbles.Taylor finished second in the AFC and fourth in the NFL in sacks.

While JT improved against the run last year (doesnt show in the numbers but looking at game tape he was more of a factor), he was the first to admit he had an off year compared to 2002 when he was absolutely dominating...
 
I really don't know what Wale is thinking. If he sits out this year has anyone told him that no teams contacted the Fins for his services. Yes I know they would have had to give up a first and a third but no one even contacted them to negotiate. If this guy sits out and doesn't play there is a big chance he won't get his payday next season.
 
Pink_Dove said:
IMO Iamlegend is right and you're wrong. His so called <ridiculous statement> seems pretty correct to me.

2002:
JT had 76 tackles, a team-high 18.5 sacks for 162.5 yards in losses, eight passes defensed, seven forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries in 2002.
Ranked first in the AFC and in the NFL in sacks, becoming the first Dolphin in club history to lead the NFL in sacks.
JT was arguably the most dominating DE in the game during the 2002 season
( One could argue in Strahan's case of course)


2003:
JT had 71 tackles including 13 sacks for 70 yards in losses, two fumble recoveries (including one returned for a touchdown), and three forced fumbles.Taylor finished second in the AFC and fourth in the NFL in sacks.

While JT improved against the run last year (doesnt show in the numbers but looking at game tape he was more of a factor), he was the first to admit he had an off year compared to 2002 when he was absolutely dominating...
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:shakeno:
I hate looking a stats here. But you post two 'meaningful' stats. Tackles and sacks.

According to your stats, he had 5 less tackle in 2003.....insignificant decrease from 2002.

He had 5.5 less sacks in 2003 than 2002. He was doubled all the time. He had 14 sacks in 2001 when he wasn't doubled.

A decrease in forced fumbles has to do with him being doubled. He got less shots to strip the QB. Passes defended for a DE is a stupid stat to look at because it depends on the defensive play calls (often dictated by the side of the field the ball is spotted on). So, that doesn't mean anything.

By listing those stats all you have done is shown that you really didn't think about (or don't know) what the stats meant.

I watched every game. JT simply had a great year...given the circumstances (doubled). I don't care what you claim he admitted. Despite a slight slight statistical drop-off, he was arguably the best DE playing in the NFL last year, period.
 
By listing those stats all you have done is shown that you really didn't think about (or don't know) what the stats meant.
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You're absolutely right I shouldn't look at stats and I don't know what stats mean...BUT I should probably consider that last year O-Gun was dominating, creating more chances for JT to shine as opposed to 2002... :)
O-Gun was still virtually unknown in 2002, therefore JT was doubled A LOT MORE in 2002 than 2003...Nevertheless he still managed to put up better numbers that year than last year...

But whatever, JT own admission that he had an off year isn't enough proof...
Refuse to look at facts, statistics and a players own admission over what you ('I've watched every game') think...
:cooldude:
 
You can't always look at stats in JT's case because I've seen him completely take over games with his disruptive nature, ruining timing, getting in the opposing QB's face all day long. He could have no sacks but he simply wreaks havoc. He is full of energy and goes hard all game long.
 
Iamlegend said:
I think its wrong to say Ogunleye is nothing without Jason Taylor... JT didnt play as great in '03 as he should have. I hope this season JT proves he just had an off season.... .
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You're missing the big picture here. JT is double teamed, that leaves his end mate (Ogun) with the chance to break one. He did. Without someone to get double teamed does Ogun still have it? We know JT does, that's why he gets double teamed. Anyone that's decent should be able to get good numbers as long as we have JT (or similar) getting double teamed every play.

So JT didn't have the #s because he was double teamed, but I'd take about half of Oguns sacks and give them to JT because if not for the double team JT would have gotten those sacks. Where does that leave Ogun? Sitting because he and his agent can't figure out his success is due to JT's.
 
Juice_56 said:
the way these negotiations are sounding and the way the contract is looking that ogunleye wants us to sign, id look him in the eyes and say hell no. id rather have chris chambers signed long term, and who knows how big that contract might be. and mcmicheal, whos contract isnt going to be a small one either.id love to sign the guy but i wouldnt sign him for near as much as KGB much less MORE than him. i mean ogunleye is good, he solid and could get 9 sacks a year i think for the rest of his career, if he was on another team. basicly ogunleye is the one whos back is to the wall. the phins dont need him. david bowens is almost as good or as good when not injured, jay williams provides excellent off the bench talent. personally if i were with drew rosenhaus and he spoke of those numbers id instantly slap him in the face. the reason oguns back is to the wall is that no one knows how well he can play with out jason taylor. once he hits the free agent market next year, yeah the media will be all over it and talk about how great of a defensive end there is out on the market. but he cant expect to get the contract like jevon kearse's. jevon kearse is a proven player that brings intensity and talent. no one is completely sure on ogunleye. if i were rick id use all our money to resign mcmicheal and chambers and say bye to ogunleye.2 great players are better than one great player. i am now done ranting...:yell:
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I would agree if they weren't so badly overpaying Jay Fiedler
 
If Jason Taylor had an off year last season, I would be happy to see him have an off year every season. I thought, in any games I saw, he was tremendous.
 
Jason Taylor will still be a Pro Bowl caliber DE without Wale on the other side, but Wale will only be a very good starter without a JT on the other side. JT didnt have as many sacks last year, but if you watched every game he was extremely close several times. Teams game plan to move the pocket away from JT not Ogun. Teams dont change their offensive game plan for Ogun like they do for JT. Without JT, Ogun would just be a very good starter, no where near JK, GW, and JT type of money.
 
Pink_Dove said:
You're absolutely right I shouldn't look at stats and I don't know what stats mean...BUT I should probably consider that last year O-Gun was dominating, creating more chances for JT to shine as opposed to 2002... :)
O-Gun was still virtually unknown in 2002, therefore JT was doubled A LOT MORE in 2002 than 2003...Nevertheless he still managed to put up better numbers that year than last year...

But whatever, JT own admission that he had an off year isn't enough proof...
Refuse to look at facts, statistics and a players own admission over what you ('I've watched every game') think...
:cooldude:
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:rolleyes: Seriously PD,

I'm looking at the facts, the stats mean nothing for that position. Disruption is his job. There is no stat for that. Go look at some film. JT was not doubled nearly as much in 2002 as he was in 2003. Ogun got the chances....not JT. You are speaking nonsense....and everyone knows.

As far as stats go, JT had an off year for SACKS ONLY.

You should not reply unless you agree with me fully to avoid embarrassment....again.;)
 
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