MERGED 2X: Samuels/AO deal | 'Skins fans here | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

MERGED 2X: Samuels/AO deal | 'Skins fans here

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Chrisbob

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Samuels/AO deal, 'Skins fans here

First off, hello again Phin fans, how's it going?

Second, thought you may like to look at this article, please note it will only be able to be viewed this weekend as it's an insider access article and they are running a free weekend:

http://redskins.theinsiders.com/2/271952.html

Anyway, I looked through another thread regarding this deal and whilst it is only a rumour for now it is a very possible deal. The Ogunlaye situation isn't good for your team as he is threatening to sit and leave next year as a FA. The Samuels situation is a pain for the 'Skins because he has had a slump in form the past two years and he is a cap burden. The article above explains the cap implications of a Samuels trade from a Redskins point of view.

As it is, any Dolphins fan who expects the 'Skins to give up more than a straight swap will be dissappointed. No way the 'Skins give up any more than a straight swap. Fact is, this is similiar than the Portis/Bailey trade, the 'Skins had to give up more ( a 2nd rd pick ) because Denver were in a situation where they did not have to deal straight away, which is what the situation is now for the 'Skins, whereas the Dolphins have to deal AO as a new deal appears far away and you risk losing him for nothing next year if no deal is done.

As it is, it would appear the 'Skins have a slightly better stance to ask for more than a straight swap, maybe a 3rd round draft pick as well? Of course, some of you are going to get mad at that (no offense is meant) but I would say that is how most 'Skins fans would see it.

Some of their opinions are here:

http://mb9.theinsiders.com/fcpndhardcorefrm1.showMessage?topicID=34461.topic

Not long 'til the season guys, enjoy!
 
Samules is too expensive, you can keep him.
That artical also seems to have no sources of facts backing up its claims, other than numbers. It's just this guys opinion and I'm not taking it for much.
And I'm not sure I agree with LT's being harder to find than a premier pass rusher.
 
As I said in my original post, it's all rumour, but a lot of it makes sense IMO.
 
Chrisbob said:
First off, hello again Phin fans, how's it going?

Second, thought you may like to look at this article, please note it will only be able to be viewed this weekend as it's an insider access article and they are running a free weekend:

http://redskins.theinsiders.com/2/271952.html

Anyway, I looked through another thread regarding this deal and whilst it is only a rumour for now it is a very possible deal. The Ogunlaye situation isn't good for your team as he is threatening to sit and leave next year as a FA. The Samuels situation is a pain for the 'Skins because he has had a slump in form the past two years and he is a cap burden. The article above explains the cap implications of a Samuels trade from a Redskins point of view.

As it is, any Dolphins fan who expects the 'Skins to give up more than a straight swap will be dissappointed. No way the 'Skins give up any more than a straight swap. Fact is, this is similiar than the Portis/Bailey trade, the 'Skins had to give up more ( a 2nd rd pick ) because Denver were in a situation where they did not have to deal straight away, which is what the situation is now for the 'Skins, whereas the Dolphins have to deal AO as a new deal appears far away and you risk losing him for nothing next year if no deal is done.

As it is, it would appear the 'Skins have a slightly better stance to ask for more than a straight swap, maybe a 3rd round draft pick as well? Of course, some of you are going to get mad at that (no offense is meant) but I would say that is how most 'Skins fans would see it.

Some of their opinions are here:

http://mb9.theinsiders.com/fcpndhardcorefrm1.showMessage?topicID=34461.topic

Not long 'til the season guys, enjoy!
Click to expand...

It is an interesting idea, but I really don't see it happening. We have Wade Smith who the FO is very high on. Although I am sure Samuels could also play RT I really don't see them giving up the AFCs leading sacker last year for a overpriced LT when they already have someone here who they are happy with. We to are in some cap hell next year as you guys are in and would probably have to let him go in order to resign Chris Chambers.
So to me it is something they probably looked at but I really can't see either side being overly happy with such a trade. Besides that you really need to keep your OL intact. Gibbs puts high premiums on good OLman, and will need them to keep Portis alive.
At least that is the way this dolphin fans sees it.
 
Well, if you got Samuels you would be able to work a new deal with him and lower his cap numbers, giving a new bonus out and spreading it over any new deal and keeping the salaries low for the first few years. Players perfer deals with big bonuses as it's the only sure money they get, nothing else is guaranteed.
 
Samuels base salary is 5.1mil. His prorated signing bonus is 2.66mil/year for the next 3 years. A trade accelerates all the signing bonus money into this years cap meaning the Skins would LOSE nearly 3mil in cap space in 2004. Add that the the cap hit Wale would cost (about 3mil/yr in signing bonus alone) and the trade would cost you guys about 6mil in 2004 assuming you dont replace Samuels. If you have the space then more power to ya...I just dont think you do.
 
Thanks for the link but the writer is an absolute "boob".

A second rounder or Seth Mckinney? Not a chance.
 
One of the better links ever posted on this site, tons of info on that site! thanks bud.
 
From the link I posted above:

6) Trading Samuels would also save the Skins nearly $2.1m against the 2004 salary cap – if the trade is consumated by July 15 when Samuels is due a $1.0m roster bonus – and count nothing in future years.
Click to expand...

Trades do not have the same rules as post June 1st cuts as you said. It all counts on the 2004. We do save money though. We already have about $5M in cap room with Taylor to sign as well. With about $7M in cap room we can easily afford AO, Taylor and the rest of our draft picks.
 
ZOD said:
Thanks for the link but the writer is an absolute "boob".

A second rounder or Seth Mckinney? Not a chance.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but you gotta remember he's a Skins fan. There's people here that want Samuels AND a 1st rounder for Ogun. Skins fans would laugh at that.
 
If Samuels were to restructure I don't understand why Fins fans wouldn't give him a look...I'D LOVE to get a bona-fide 25 yrs old pro-bowl LT that would go a long way in fixing our problems along the line...
He's underachieved somewhat but that's only because expectations were so high for him coming out fo the draft...
 
There might be some merit exchanging a couple of cap problem players,but please giving up Ogun plus a second round pick is ridiculous.It should be the other way around.Ogun was best DL in NFL last year is at the top' of his game.On the other hand Samuels has had 2 off years in a row and its easy to blame Spurrier.

I also dont buy the theory that a top rush DE is easier to find than a LT.It took over 20 yrs for the fins to find one.Now they have two.

Samuels is not a top LT .Maybe if he were it would be OK to trade straight up.It does fill a need though.
 
Out of interest, and purely hypothetical of course, would you take the Redskins first rounder next year straight up for AO?
 
I would definilty take that in a heart beat if I were Miami...... Samuels is one of the best Tackles in the league and your offensive line is not looking good.

While with Ogunleye you really have no idea how good he really is being opposite Jason Taylor.
 
CrunchTime said:
There might be some merit exchanging a couple of cap problem players,but please giving up Ogun plus a second round pick is ridiculous.It should be the other way around.Ogun was best DL in NFL last year is at the top' of his game.On the other hand Samuels has had 2 off years in a row and its easy to blame Spurrier.

I also dont buy the theory that a top rush DE is easier to find than a LT.It took over 20 yrs for the fins to find one.Now they have two.

Samuels is not a top LT .Maybe if he were it would be OK to trade straight up.It does fill a need though.
Click to expand...

What you have to remember is not so much how good each player is, but who is more in danger of losing their respective player for nothing? In this case it's the Dolphins, the 'Skins have at least 2 years with Samuels, the Dolphins have until arounds November. It was the same when we traded for portis, Bailey is the better player at his position and All-Pro CB's are harder to find than All-Pro RB's but if the player holds all the cards you have to get the best you can.
 
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