bullseyeguy
Heart of A Champion
Someone answer this...Where would the Suns and Lakers be if they swapped Kobe/Nash??
NBA Mvp
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bullseyeguy said:
i dont think theres a question the teams would be in the near same situation.
Without Nash, Suns have no one to run the offense, no one to handle the ball. Kobe can do that. Suns would be better with Kobe IMO. Lakers a little worse. Nash can not carry a team by shooting the ball, which he would definitly have to do.
Alex44
Chicago Bears GM
Nappy Roots said:
Lamar Odom is one of the most inconsistent players I have ever seen, you cant depend on him for anything
Alex22 said:
he has been inconsistant this year. but its hard to maintain consistantly when your not consistantly involved in the offense.
i do admit, i may have went overboard with the championship contender, but they would definitly have a much better chance.
bullseyeguy
Heart of A Champion
I completely disagree...Nash wouldnt have to carry the team by shooting, he makes average players better. Cook, and Brown are 2 players that I think would absolutely become better with Nash running the point for them....Then there is Odom, who would be a stud with Nash...Nappy Roots said:
Now Kobe on the Suns, the whole team would be different, and people would be saying the same thing about the Suns that they are about the Lakes...No one besides Kobe on the team....Diaw, Bell, Jones, House wouldnt be anywhere near where they are....
Alex44
Chicago Bears GM
Nappy Roots said:
I agree they would probally have a better chance, but I dont think it would be a greatly better chance, they would play a little better defense, but you cant really say they would be any more clutch because Kobe has been one of the most clutch players in the league
Metal Panda
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Blueprint said:
MVP doesn't mean "player who offensively/defensively performs the best", it means the player whom without would be entirely different, and would probably be nowhere near as successful.
The Suns without Steve Nash simply don't function. The Lakers without Kobe? they wouldn't be great, but then again, they aren't great with him, they're average. And despite the thinking that without him they'd be nowhere, I have to wonder if it's a case of the whole being less than the sum of the parts, if Kobe isn't there.
Keep mind the Magic lost their leading scorer in a trade, and lost Hill to an injury (granted neither of them were playing anywhere near Kobe's level but still, that's a lot of offense), and now are comprised largely of young inexperienced, but hungry players, and they've won 16 of their last 20. Point being everybody thought when their two main offensive contributors were gone that they were through and it was time to rebuild, yet the team caught fire.
I don't necessarily know that the Lakers WOULD be 'horrible' without Kobe. Last year they went 34-48 overall, and during that stretch from 1/13-2/13 where Kobe missed all those games, the team went 6-8. It's hard to say.
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Nappy Roots said:
there's no way in hell the Suns are better with Kobe. The distribution would be terrible.
Ferretsquig
Perennial All-Pro
RobFins2005 said:
MVP means whatever you want it to mean. Poll the voters and I'm sure you will come up with 10 different answers to what it means to them.
The main problem with a Nash vote is that the Suns do function without him...Barbosa has been a very capable PG for them when Nash is out. On the other hand without their stars, the Heat and Lakers are pathetic. This plays out in their +/- stats. Kobe - 12.6, Wade - 15.5, Nash - 7.7. Without Wade or Kobe, their respective teams lack any offensive continuity. It can be argued that if the teams were allowed to play without their star for an extended period of time they would adapt and still be able to win. But given the fact the MVP is a reward for the achievements of a season, you cant disregard the effect those two have on their teams, and how Nash's impact pales in comparison.
bullseyeguy
Heart of A Champion
We Must not be watching the same games...Barbosa has been good when hes playing the 2 along side Nash, and when hes getting garbage minutes at the point....Suns are 0-3 this season without Nash....Ferretsquig said:
bullseyeguy said:
suns havent exactly looked lost without him. they where winning through halftime of the warriors game.
Buddwalk
The Jukebox Hero
Nappy Roots said:
one game doesnt decide an mvp award :rolleyes2
oh wait 81 points by kobe against the raptors
maybe it does :hmmm:
Buddwalk said:
i missed where i said that :rolleyes2
3 games dont decide a mvp award either. being 0-3 in the games hes missed is a small sample size. theyve played well at times while hes been out.
Steve Nash. He was the MVP last year and he had a better year this year doing more with less talent around him. With amare out more of the load fell on his and Marions shoulders and to show proof of how much better he makes his teammates simply look at the Phoenix roster; one full of exiled players who in past stops were booed out of town...guys like Timmy (the Tin Man...cause he has no heart) Thomas, Boris Diaw, Pat Burke (LOL!)....
#2 is Lebron. Without Lebron, the Cavs are another Knicks. No other player in the league combines the Jordan-esque scoring and actually makes his teammates better...and that specifically means Kobe
Kobe fits the first part of the equation; the team certainly depends on him to score. But he hardly makes his teammates better. Part of the problem is that his teammates pretty well stink aside from Odom. A larger part of the problem is that the team is so dependant on Bryants ability to score that he really doesnt get the chance to make his teammate better. Still, an MVP isnt the best player on a 7 seed. An MVP candidate has to at least finish in the top half of the conference imo.
Dirk is the #3 guy imo. The Dallas offense has slumped at times this year and seen scoring droughts for the first time in about half a decade. And when those times have hit hes been the guy to carry them through. Hes also a very good passer for a 7 footer.
Honorable Mention:
Melo: Because no player has been more clutch this season. Still has to work on making his teammates better.
Kobe: Because without him the Lakers would be fighting with the the Hawks for a top 5 draft slot.
Arenas: See Kobe
Billups: Best player on the best team
Duncan: cause hes too good to leave off even in an injury filled year.
I love Dwayne Wade but Im not sure hes in the top 7. Shaq is stilla top 10-12 player in the league when healthy and affects the game in ways only Tim Duncan can among big guys.
#2 is Lebron. Without Lebron, the Cavs are another Knicks. No other player in the league combines the Jordan-esque scoring and actually makes his teammates better...and that specifically means Kobe
Kobe fits the first part of the equation; the team certainly depends on him to score. But he hardly makes his teammates better. Part of the problem is that his teammates pretty well stink aside from Odom. A larger part of the problem is that the team is so dependant on Bryants ability to score that he really doesnt get the chance to make his teammate better. Still, an MVP isnt the best player on a 7 seed. An MVP candidate has to at least finish in the top half of the conference imo.
Dirk is the #3 guy imo. The Dallas offense has slumped at times this year and seen scoring droughts for the first time in about half a decade. And when those times have hit hes been the guy to carry them through. Hes also a very good passer for a 7 footer.
Honorable Mention:
Melo: Because no player has been more clutch this season. Still has to work on making his teammates better.
Kobe: Because without him the Lakers would be fighting with the the Hawks for a top 5 draft slot.
Arenas: See Kobe
Billups: Best player on the best team
Duncan: cause hes too good to leave off even in an injury filled year.
I love Dwayne Wade but Im not sure hes in the top 7. Shaq is stilla top 10-12 player in the league when healthy and affects the game in ways only Tim Duncan can among big guys.