Official Heat-Pistons Series Thread!

[nick1]

It's a shame that we couldn't see what would of happened if the Heat were healthly

 

[TerryTate]

With a healthy Wade and a healthy Shaq, does Miami win this series? Probably. That said, Detroit's frustrating habits of playing down to the level of their opponents and not playing hard until their backs are to the wall definitely didn't help matters. The game 3 implosion was particularly embarassing.

And the thing I'd note about a "healthy Shaq" is this (I've made this point before, and think it bears repeating): if you bet your season on a 33 year old center (going on 36, given all the extra games he's played over the years) with a lengthy injury history and who's played the previous five seasons between 50 and 80 pounds overweight, you're often going to be disappointed. I couldn't believe the amount of bellyaching about Shaq being healthy, personally. Why would you expect him to be healthy? He's missed about 20 games a season over the last 5. It's like me counting on Rasheed Wallace NOT to get a technical foul at the worst possible time. The timing sucks, from your POV, but in betting on Shaq being healthy, they took a big risk and it backfired. Shaq's mediocre rebounding was a huge reason Miami lost this series.

Wade's injury was unfortunate, and he ran out of gas at the wrong time. That's a legitimate gripe, I think. If it had become apparent early on that he couldn't go, maybe Keyon Dooling could have stepped up and gotten into the flow of things. As it was, Wade played some excellent ball on offense in the third, but burned his reserves and was a complete liability at both ends by the fourth quarter, and the Champs took advantage. I'd note that Wade also did a poor job of creating shots in this one; 3 assists for your primary ballhandler is not a good sign, injured or no. They needed a "Jordan with the flu" game from him and didn't get it. Not his fault; he did the best he could, but like the "next MJs" before him, he's got a long way to go.

BTW, for the record, Detroit doesn't have a bench. They have Antonio McDyess and three deeply flawed players. Hunter is effective for short spurts, but that's all. Arroyo is a good player but Larry Brown hates him, so he doesn't play. Campbell's only value was in the six fouls he had to give Shaq; he'll be stapled to the bench for the Finals.

Den54 take a note...Phunwin knows what he's talking about, and he is a fan of the team that beat the Heat....

Let me throw another example in of your logic Den54.....

Oh god, what do we have here? Michael Jordan has gone down with a freak injury....its the 1993 Finals....gosh....we must not be a real championship team if Trent Tucker, BJ Armstrong, and Scottie Pippen cant compensate for the airness

 

[nyjunc]

With a healthy Wade and a healthy Shaq, does Miami win this series? Probably. That said, Detroit's frustrating habits of playing down to the level of their opponents and not playing hard until their backs are to the wall definitely didn't help matters.

That's why I don't think Miami would have won even healthy b/c Detroit plays to the level of their opponent.

BTW, for the record, Detroit doesn't have a bench. They have Antonio McDyess and three deeply flawed players. Hunter is effective for short spurts, but that's all. Arroyo is a good player but Larry Brown hates him, so he doesn't play. Campbell's only value was in the six fouls he had to give Shaq; he'll be stapled to the bench for the Finals.

Campbell gave Detroit some very valuable minutes and although he fouled alot he played very good D on Shaq. Detroit is definitely thinner than Miami but I think they had the best player coming off the bench in McDyess.

 

[TerryTate]

That's why I don't think Miami would have won even healthy b/c Detroit plays to the level of their opponent.



Campbell gave Detroit some very valuable minutes and although he fouled alot he played very good D on Shaq. Detroit is definitely thinner than Miami but I think they had the best player coming off the bench in McDyess.

I probably could total McDyess's miss total for the series on my hands, he shot lights out whenever he came in....he deserves a starting spot somewhere but with his injury history teams just dont want to take that gamble...

 

[nyjunc]

Den54 take a note...Phunwin knows what he's talking about, and he is a fan of the team that beat the Heat....

Let me throw another example in of your logic Den54.....

Oh god, what do we have here? Michael Jordan has gone down with a freak injury....its the 1993 Finals....gosh....we must not be a real championship team if Trent Tucker, BJ Armstrong, and Scottie Pippen cant compensate for the airness

Michael Jordan wouldn't go down, he would have toughed it out(that's not a knock on wade it's a compliment to the greatest player of all-time) and Chi would have won.

 

[nyjunc]

I probably could total McDyess's miss total for the series on my hands, he shot lights out whenever he came in....he deserves a starting spot somewhere but with his injury history teams just dont want to take that gamble...

Before his injuries he was an an all-NBA player and an all-star before his injuries and now he is healthy, he's not back to where he was but he's a very good player coming off the bench. They don't have the great depth they had last year but he's a load coming off the bench and when he and Sheed were down low it was very difficult for Shaq to deal w/ b/c they can pop out and hit the jumper.

 

[phunwin]

That's why I don't think Miami would have won even healthy b/c Detroit plays to the level of their opponent.

Campbell gave Detroit some very valuable minutes and although he fouled alot he played very good D on Shaq. Detroit is definitely thinner than Miami but I think they had the best player coming off the bench in McDyess.

I'm not sure if Detroit would have beaten a healthy Miami or not. Like I said, I've been saying all along (going back to the moment the Heat traded for him) that Shaq couldn't be counted on to be healthy anyway, so it seemed moot.

By pinpointing Campbell's accomplishments, you (inadvertently) raise the biggest problem with Shaq. Campbell is a big, strong center who, in a 94 foot sprint, could be timed with a sundial. But he can deliver a hard foul as well as anyone. And he's one of the few centers around who's fairly effective against Shaq. But, in a perfect world, there's no way on God's green earth that Campbell should be able to hang with Shaq, even for the five minute stretches he's assigned to.

Here's the thing that frustrates me about Shaq (alert: tangential rant). Obviously, I'm no great fan of the Heat, nor the Lakers. But I am a fan of well-played basketball. The Shaq of 2000 (maybe 2001, too) was COMPLETELY different than the current version of Shaq. The Old Shaq was a 7-1, 315 lb (or so) big man who had exceptional quickness for his size and still had some serious hops. He was big, powerful and explosive. I remember the Finals where they played Philly, and poor Dikembe Mutombo, the best defensive center in the NBA, was about ready to hang himself in the shower after the series. That's how thoroughly Shaq embarassed Deke. When Shaq called himself "Most Dominant Ever", he had a point.

After that, he got fat on his success. He added bulk and lost his explosiveness, a loser tradeoff if there ever was one. His added body weight contributed to more injuries, and the fact that he was still winning titles only fed the "I can eat what I want, work out when I want and get in shape when I feel like it" line of thought. He didn't care about his in-season injuries, so long as he could get ready for the playoffs. I don't blame him; the guy's got 3 rings and probably has a net worth in the nine digits. But still, it's frustrating as a basketball fan.

Then last year came, when Detroit DESTROYED Shaq and the Lakers in the Finals, in the single most one-sided five game series in recorded history. Shaq got run out of town and realized that he had to get back in shape, but it was too late. That quickness is long gone. Shaq has almost no hops now; relying on his bulk to outmuscle players for rebounds. His knees are probably shot, though (to his credit) he's never complained. He rebounds in a phone booth at this point, healthy or injured. Did he get a single rebound in this series that didn't come right to him? On offense, he's still unstoppable inside 8 feet, but his game is so limited compared to what it used to be, and what it still could be. His defense, save for the occasional highlight reel block, is mediocre. That's why Rasheed and McDyess had so many open jumpers; Shaq won't dare venture outside the paint.

Like I said, it's frustrating to me as a basketball fan. I can't imagine how frustrating that would be to a Heat fan. </rant>

 

[Section126]

Michael Jordan wouldn't go down, he would have toughed it out(that's not a knock on wade it's a compliment to the greatest player of all-time) and Chi would have won.

And of course...Jordan would have shot lightning bolts out of his azz to kill everyone on the court.

 

[Den54]

Den54 take a note...Phunwin knows what he's talking about, and he is a fan of the team that beat the Heat....

Let me throw another example in of your logic Den54.....

Oh god, what do we have here? Michael Jordan has gone down with a freak injury....its the 1993 Finals....gosh....we must not be a real championship team if Trent Tucker, BJ Armstrong, and Scottie Pippen cant compensate for the airness

Translation, your bench sucks starting with Zo and ending with Dooling.

 

[Den54]

Translation: You're absolutely right TerryTate....these are observations, not excuses.

What you should do now is stop pooping on a team that you envy, you being a tragic fan...and should go on your merry way :www:

I'll do as I please Thank You. I have'nt pooped on any team. I gave Miami there props they just were'nt the better team. Deal with it.

 

[TerryTate]

Translation, your bench sucks starting with Zo and ending with Dooling.

:shakeno:

 

[TerryTate]

I'll do as I please Thank You. I have'nt pooped on any team. I gave Miami there props they just were'nt the better team. Deal with it.

By saying this you are saying that if Michael Jordan fell to injury and the Bulls lost in 7 to the Blazers, the Blazers were the better team?

If the Lakers lost Shaq in game 6 during any of their three championship runs and lost to the challenger that they were a better team?

Bottom line: you'll never know

This series when it came down to it was decided by game 7 and the margin of victory was 6 points for detroit...Phil the Detroit fan came to accept that his team couldve and may have lost if it wasnt for D-Wade's freak injury....you the jealous magic fan cant come to terms with that.

Detroit is a hell of a basketball team and like I said before, they are a good enough team where they can take advantage of a golden opportunity like that. They did in game 6 and in game 7 with Wade fizzled, it was smooth sailing with a few minutes left in the game.

 

[Den54]

By saying this you are saying that if Michael Jordan fell to injury and the Bulls lost in 7 to the Blazers, the Blazers were the better team?

If the Lakers lost Shaq in game 6 during any of their three championship runs and lost to the challenger that they were a better team?

Bottom line: you'll never know

This series when it came down to it was decided by game 7 and the margin of victory was 6 points for detroit...Phil the Detroit fan came to accept that his team couldve and may have lost if it wasnt for D-Wade's freak injury....you the jealous magic fan cant come to terms with that.

Detroit is a hell of a basketball team and like I said before, they are a good enough team where they can take advantage of a golden opportunity like that. They did in game 6 and in game 7 with Wade fizzled, it was smooth sailing with a few minutes left in the game.

Denile is not a river.

 

[Section126]

Denile is not a river.

and the Orlando Magic is not a pro basketball team.

 

[Den54]

and the Orlando Magic is not a pro basketball team.

Is that the best you guys can come up with? Attack my team because yours did'nt make it to the big dance? Whatever....if it helps with your grieving process more power to you. :D