OPINION: dolphins will take glenn dorsey #1 mark it down | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

OPINION: dolphins will take glenn dorsey #1 mark it down

PExcell1 said:
Dolphins will select Glenn Dorsey with their 1st round pick they
need help up front they couldn't stop the run last yesar after his
pro day he's over the injuries they claim he had we dont need
Chris Long he's a tweener we have bunch of those.
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You really think that?
 
PExcell1 said:
Dolphins will select Glenn Dorsey with their 1st round pick they
need help up front they couldn't stop the run last yesar after his
pro day he's over the injuries they claim he had we dont need
Chris Long he's a tweener we have bunch of those.
Click to expand...

:ponder: I doubt it...
 
I would be a little disappointed if we did. But, he is a great player at a position of need. However your comment on Long is complete opinion and ignorance if you ask me. I would like to state that ignorance means "uniformed on the matter" and don't mean it as a insult just that you should get more information and do a little research on the matter.
 
PExcell1 said:
Dolphins will select Glenn Dorsey with their 1st round pick they
need help up front they couldn't stop the run last yesar after his
pro day he's over the injuries they claim he had we dont need
Chris Long he's a tweener we have bunch of those.
Click to expand...




:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:
 
Geforce said:
Then how do you explain Jason Ferguson being a good NT for 11 seasons in the NFL?
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Well for starters he hasnt been a 3-4 NT for 11 seasons, he was drafted by the Jets in 1997 who did not run a 3-4 defense, being a NT in a 3-4 is alot different then being a 4-3 NT...The "ideal" 3-4 NT is huge, ie Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams and Vince Wilfork, can you be smaller and still be a productive NT, the answer to that is yes...Would you spend the #1 overall pick on a guy where his main job would be to suck up double teams and stay strong at the point of the attack and he's undersized for that position? No, we will never see a 3-4 NT get taken that high just because of what his job duty is.

Dorsey would be a bad fit in DE at that spot also, just imagine Warren Sapp as a DE in a 3-4, he would be out of place...Dorsey is a 4-3 UT, a penetrator, a guy who gets after the qb and will collapse the pocket, he needs to line up next to a Grady Jackson type tackle who will eat up the double teams, and let Dorsey wreck havoc, it would be a waste of talent to place him in any 3-4 scheme.
 
Well for starters he hasnt been a 3-4 NT for 11 seasons, he was drafted by the Jets in 1997 who did not run a 3-4 defense, being a NT in a 3-4 is alot different then being a 4-3 NT...The "ideal" 3-4 NT is huge, ie Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams and Vince Wilfork, can you be smaller and still be a productive NT, the answer to that is yes...Would you spend the #1 overall pick on a guy where his main job would be to suck up double teams and stay strong at the point of the attack and he's undersized for that position? No, we will never see a 3-4 NT get taken that high just because of what his job duty is.

Dorsey would be a bad fit in DE at that spot also, just imagine Warren Sapp as a DE in a 3-4, he would be out of place...Dorsey is a 4-3 UT, a penetrator, a guy who gets after the qb and will collapse the pocket, he needs to line up next to a Grady Jackson type tackle who will eat up the double teams, and let Dorsey wreck havoc, it would be a waste of talent to place him in any 3-4 scheme


Agreed !!
 
LonghornsLegend said:
Well for starters he hasnt been a 3-4 NT for 11 seasons, he was drafted by the Jets in 1997 who did not run a 3-4 defense, being a NT in a 3-4 is alot different then being a 4-3 NT...The "ideal" 3-4 NT is huge, ie Casey Hampton, Jamal Williams and Vince Wilfork, can you be smaller and still be a productive NT, the answer to that is yes...Would you spend the #1 overall pick on a guy where his main job would be to suck up double teams and stay strong at the point of the attack and he's undersized for that position? No, we will never see a 3-4 NT get taken that high just because of what his job duty is.

Dorsey would be a bad fit in DE at that spot also, just imagine Warren Sapp as a DE in a 3-4, he would be out of place...Dorsey is a 4-3 UT, a penetrator, a guy who gets after the qb and will collapse the pocket, he needs to line up next to a Grady Jackson type tackle who will eat up the double teams, and let Dorsey wreck havoc, it would be a waste of talent to place him in any 3-4 scheme.
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The Jets opened the 1997 season running the 4-3 defense but after the first month switched to the 3-4. The Jets then went back to the 4-3 for the 1998 season before switching back to the 3-4 in 1999. When Al Groh took over in 2000, they continued to run the 3-4 defense. When Herman Moore took over in 2001, the Jets moved back to the 4-3 defense. Ferguson stayed in NY until Dallas called him in 2005 where they started to make the transition from their long running 4-3 to the 3-4.

Jay Ratliff, the present NT in Dallas is even smaller than Ferguson at 6'4" 300. San Francisco's NT Aubrayo Franklin is 6'1" 320 and Pittsburgh's Casey Hampton is also in that 6'1" 320 to 325 lb range.

Needing a huge NT really depends on what type of 3-4 defense you want to run.


At 6'2" 299, I agree that Dorsey's talent would be wasted at NT in the 3-4. However, to say that he cannot play DE in the 3-4 is a little shortsighted. The San Diego used someone of similar size at on of their DEs position when Luis Castillo was out with an injury. In fact Castillo isn't much bigger himself at 6'3" 305.
 
I dont think you have to be bigger to play DE in a 3-4, what im saying is that it would be a waste of his talents to do it, you dont ask your DE's to get after the qb, its more about taking on blockers which as I said would be wasting alot of Dorsey's abilties.


As far as Jay Ratliff, yes he is smaller, but for 1 we moved him back outside to DE, but even when he was playing NT along with Tank, both guys were out of position and not big enough which leads me to my original point, yes certain guys "Can" play NT, but they are not "true" nose tackles, sometimes you work with what you have...Dallas has not had a true NT since we started the 3-4 and it shows, now by "true NT" I mean the prototype, not in terms of height but ideally you want guys over 320 but of course guys under that weight can play I never said it cant happen unless your a certain size.

You mentioned Franklin for SF, he is another case where he is playing there because he has to, if you check with SF draft boards they are in the market for a "true" NT also...Ferguson is not a true NT either, but he is solid and better then anything you guys had so he is a solid guy to play that spot, still does not change the fact that if you specifically draft a guy to play NT in the 3-4 he's going to be alot closer to the prototype, look around the league, any team who has an undersized 3-4 NT probably struggles in their defense(Cleveland, San Fran, Jets) and the ones who true NT's(Pats, Chargers, Steelers) all perform better, teams will plug in who they have to(as will Dallas this season) but we still dont have the ideal guy in the middle.


As far as Dorsey playing DE, its not about size, its about his responsibility in that role and the fit for the defense...Dre Moore makes alot better 3-4 DE, Red Bryant makes alot better NT, but Dorsey is the far superior UT and probably the best one to come along in the past 10 years, but just because he's an elite talent you cant play him out of position otherwise you will not reap the benefits you expect from a top pick, ie Oakland playing Michael Huff at SS.
 
PExcell1 said:
they will used him at DE not at NT same as Patriots used Seymour and Ty Warren
remember Parcells drafted Eric Dorsey from N.D years ago it starts up front it's not
a sexy pick but guys it starts up Chris long is to much of a tweener, try hard guys
we have that in Matt Roth also Q.Moses, Abe Wright, Porter, we need help up front
before he got injured he was the 1 player in this draft dont be surprise again this
year like you were last year
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I hope glenn dorsey is our pick also. he is the best player in this draft period.
 
LonghornsLegend said:
I dont think you have to be bigger to play DE in a 3-4, what im saying is that it would be a waste of his talents to do it, you dont ask your DE's to get after the qb, its more about taking on blockers which as I said would be wasting alot of Dorsey's abilties.


As far as Jay Ratliff, yes he is smaller, but for 1 we moved him back outside to DE, but even when he was playing NT along with Tank, both guys were out of position and not big enough which leads me to my original point, yes certain guys "Can" play NT, but they are not "true" nose tackles, sometimes you work with what you have...Dallas has not had a true NT since we started the 3-4 and it shows, now by "true NT" I mean the prototype, not in terms of height but ideally you want guys over 320 but of course guys under that weight can play I never said it cant happen unless your a certain size.

You mentioned Franklin for SF, he is another case where he is playing there because he has to, if you check with SF draft boards they are in the market for a "true" NT also...Ferguson is not a true NT either, but he is solid and better then anything you guys had so he is a solid guy to play that spot, still does not change the fact that if you specifically draft a guy to play NT in the 3-4 he's going to be alot closer to the prototype, look around the league, any team who has an undersized 3-4 NT probably struggles in their defense(Cleveland, San Fran, Jets) and the ones who true NT's(Pats, Chargers, Steelers) all perform better, teams will plug in who they have to(as will Dallas this season) but we still dont have the ideal guy in the middle.


As far as Dorsey playing DE, its not about size, its about his responsibility in that role and the fit for the defense...Dre Moore makes alot better 3-4 DE, Red Bryant makes alot better NT, but Dorsey is the far superior UT and probably the best one to come along in the past 10 years, but just because he's an elite talent you cant play him out of position otherwise you will not reap the benefits you expect from a top pick, ie Oakland playing Michael Huff at SS.
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Draft boards? Fans are not the best indicator of what a team needs or wants. If the posters on those boards think the 49ers are in the market for a true NT, then they have forgotten about the $20 million they paid to Isaac Sopoaga (6'2" 330) last month.
 
Geforce said:
Draft boards? Fans are not the best indicator of what a team needs or wants. If the posters on those boards think the 49ers are in the market for a true NT, then they have forgotten about the $20 million they paid to Isaac Sopoaga (6'2" 330) last month.
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Who said anything about fans or posters on boards? I said San Fran's draft board they will be targeting a true NT, doesnt really have anything to do with the fans on the niners or people posting.


Sopoaga is a backup tackle, whether they paid 20 million or not he's still admittantly a backup by San Frans standards and nothing more, with that being said he's still the ideal size you look for in a NT, but size isnt the only criteria in a NT, its not like if your a big guy your automatically going to be solid.


But I dont want to stray too far, this isnt about the niners its about Dorsey, which brings me to my main point that it wouldnt be smart to draft someone #1 overall and play him out of position, this is one scouting report of him:

Weighing in at less than 300 pounds at the 2008 NFL Scouting Combine, Dorsey lacks the ideal bulk of an interior lineman in the NFL. He needs to improve his base as teams at the collegiate level had some success at running right at him and washing him out of the play. He is more of a one-gap player and could be a less than ideal fit for those teams operating out of the 3-4 defense.
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That about sums it up, less then 300 he wont even sniff a NT, and the latter part of that explains why DE in a 3-4 would not be smart at all, especially with so much money tied into a guy.
 
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