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Our defense

Egnew the GOAT said:
Im saying Wheeler is bad. Ellerbe has underperformed, and Koa Misi isnt good.

So basically... yes.
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I seem to recall that CK immediately flagged his concerns re Wheeler's coverage skills, upon his top $ signing as a free agent. After 11 games, we look perplexed and hope that he will get better, but this looks like a major preventable bust. Ireland had some FA wins in Grimes and Gibson, but he should be accountable for the expensive busts as well. It would be interesting to know how much Philbin/Coyle were involved in stating what they wanted from the LBs. If they lobbied hard for blitzing LBs like Wheeler, Ireland may have a scapegoat, that he was trying to get what the Defensive Coordinator said he needed. At any rate, if CK knew they likely issue, Ireland should have known it as well.

BTW - we agree to disagree re Koa Misi. I see a player who has steadily improved. I don't think he's a problem.
 
DANTODUPER said:
Hopefully we let both (Starks and Soliai go next year) and substitute them with cheaper same quality players until we hit one solid DT on the draft..
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Seriously ???? Let both go? We have two interior lineman that 85% of the league would kill for, and you think we should let them go. These guys are not the problem, they are studs. They are starting to get up there in years, but probably have two to three years left. Guys like this do not "grow on trees". They don't get the big stat lines, but we have two of the better ones in the league.
 
DANTODUPER said:
Ellerbe is not the problem, Wheeler, Misi, Clemons, Starks and Soliai are. Hopefully we let both (Starks and Soliai go next year) and substitute them with cheaper same quality players until we hit one solid DT on the draft. I believe on Ofense we only need a power running back and a good RT. But on defense we need lots of help; SS, 2OLB, 2DT and a healthy CB.
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It's post like this and the OP that remind me that most people don't have a clue about what they see on the field.
 
Atila said:
This thread is so off base... our defense has been pretty damn solid this season. We are CONSTANTLY playing from behind and CONSTANTLY having to attack on the defensive side of the ball. Imagine if we even had 1-2 games where our offense was getting a nice lead and the defense was allowed to pin their ears back?

Every single game we are putting pressure on our D to have to make a big stop instead of getting anything done on offense. Just look at last week... in the first half the defense set up our offense on Carolina's side of the 50 THREE times... and we got 6 total points from it... that game shouldn't have come down to the final drive, our defense had given up 13 points all game AND put our offense in a position to score a lot of points...

This defense has been causing turnovers, been great against the pass, and strong up front. If we had even an average offense, you'd see how much better our defense would look.
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I would have to agree with you pretty much entirely. Good post.

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This defense would be close to elite if the offense could sustain a drive. The D gets worn out from being on the field and in the second half we get ran on bad.

Wheeler is terrible but we don't have anyone who's better. Those of you who don't see Misi as a strong LBer need to reevaluate that or need to educate yourself. He's not a quick twitch athlete, but he is strong, very good tackler, sheds blocks, can read and react.

If the offense could sustain drives in the second half, the defense would be capable if performing into the fourth quarter. Our red zone defense has been putrid because of this as well as 4 th quarter defense. Have we stopped any game winning drives in the last month?
 
First 3 quarters the defense have been physical and fierce. There have been a few games where they were capable of performing through the game. This defense is very good our poor offense had held us back, yet again, causing this unit to be stuck on an underachieving unit as a whole yet again. Sustain drives and score TDs this team is an 8 or 9 win team at this moment with how great that defense is.

I'd take another Misi or Burnett over Wheeler any day and twice on Sundays!
 
spiketex said:
I seem to recall that CK immediately flagged his concerns re Wheeler's coverage skills, upon his top $ signing as a free agent. After 11 games, we look perplexed and hope that he will get better, but this looks like a major preventable bust. Ireland had some FA wins in Grimes and Gibson, but he should be accountable for the expensive busts as well. It would be interesting to know how much Philbin/Coyle were involved in stating what they wanted from the LBs. If they lobbied hard for blitzing LBs like Wheeler, Ireland may have a scapegoat, that he was trying to get what the Defensive Coordinator said he needed. At any rate, if CK knew they likely issue, Ireland should have known it as well.

BTW - we agree to disagree re Koa Misi. I see a player who has steadily improved. I don't think he's a problem.
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FWIW, I watched Burnett yesterday vs Dallas. He was good vs the run, no pass rush, was thrown at 3 times for 3 completions, 30 yds, 20 YAC and 2 missed tackles. For the year, Wheeler is better in coverage and pass rush but worse vs the run. Wheeler has 16 missed tackles, Burnett has 15 with one more game. The same was true last season.

NOT saying that Wheeler is playing well at all but, we got what we made the move for in what they each do better than the other. Also there are not many good 4-3 OLB out there. I do expect to see improvement next year to where Wheeler was in Oakland, which was better than what he has shown us. JMO
 
Southbeach 2 said:
FWIW, I watched Burnett yesterday vs Dallas. He was good vs the run, no pass rush, was thrown at 3 times for 3 completions, 30 yds, 20 YAC and 2 missed tackles. For the year, Wheeler is better in coverage and pass rush but worse vs the run. Wheeler has 16 missed tackles, Burnett has 15 with one more game. The same was true last season.
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Don't forget that Burnett has 2.5 sacks, Wheeler has .5. Burnett has 3 FF, Wheeler has 0.
 
Anybody else thinks Jenkins is better than Wheeler/Ellerbe?

He looked better imo with the little playing time they gave him.
 
DANTODUPER said:
Ellerbe is not the problem, Wheeler, Misi, Clemons, Starks and Soliai are. Hopefully we let both (Starks and Soliai go next year) and substitute them with cheaper same quality players until we hit one solid DT on the draft. I believe on Ofense we only need a power running back and a good RT. But on defense we need lots of help; SS, 2OLB, 2DT and a healthy CB.
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What a joke of a post
 
DANTODUPER said:
Ellerbe is not the problem, Wheeler, Misi, Clemons, Starks and Soliai are. Hopefully we let both (Starks and Soliai go next year) and substitute them with cheaper same quality players until we hit one solid DT on the draft. I believe on Ofense we only need a power running back and a good RT. But on defense we need lots of help; SS, 2OLB, 2DT and a healthy CB.
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If we let both of them go we will be screwed in 2014. Btw, who's playing on the OL if we get 6 new guys on D.
 
vagrantprodigy said:
Don't forget that Burnett has 2.5 sacks, Wheeler has .5. Burnett has 3 FF, Wheeler has 0.
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Burnett has 3 sacks, 3 hits, and 12 hurries, ranked #12 on pass rush. Wheeler has 1-4 and 17, ranked #3. Last year, Burnett had 2-6 and 7, ranked #8, Wheeler had 3- 14 and 13, ranked #2. PFF does not give half sacks.

Also interesting to note is that in the first 4 games Gave up 22 catches of 26 throws for 239 yards and 2 TD's. In the last 7 games, he gave up 14 of 21 for 115 yards and 0 TD's. In addition, he had 6 missed tackles in game #3. He has improved.
 
Phinsfan93 said:
Anybody else thinks Jenkins is better than Wheeler/Ellerbe?

He looked better imo with the little playing time they gave him.
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No, but I like his athleticism and upside. I like it when they bring him in on obvious passing situations, although that's rare.
 
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