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Paradigm Shift for Miami

It's a tough game trying to make the right draft picks. I remember when Cam picked Ted Ginn over Brady Quinn, Mr All World Notre Dame QB who played in Charlie Weis's pro style offense that he coached with the Patriots. He can't miss!!!!!!!!!! We all wanted the guy, admit it. Brady Quinn couldn't even stay in the NFL as a clip board holder so at the end of the day there's a lot of luck involved. I believe Miami should draft a QB and if the right one is sitting there, just pull the trigger. We need a young star QB to groom behind Tannehill. We also need a oline and a TE buts who's counting?

If everyone here were honest, most of our dream draft picks end up being average or worse. Many wait until late in the season or the following year and, then, with benefit of hindsight, tell us who Miami SHOULD have taken. Of course, fans of 32 teams play that game. 'We took x and COULD have had Landry.'

I'm in favor of getting a QB to groom, but not day 1. Too many critical needs. Matter of fact, I'm in favor of signing a FA QB to replace Moore. He's a good backup, but not obscene millions good. Can you imagine the uproar if Miami drafted a QB in R1 who would play behind Tannehill (particularly if it required a trade up) and passed on the draft's best OLB, pass rush DE, or TE? You're right, the draft is tough. For me, I enter draft day with a list of the 3 critical needs. If Miami gets two of those in R1/R2, I'm happy. I was happy this spring.
 
1) It IS a critical need. There is no guarantee RT can even play next year and every one of our remaining QBs on the roster are D players or lower.

2) This is the exact line of thinking that has put us in the position we have been in since Marino. We have always held off on drafting QBs in the first round and now have **** to show for it.
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Wasn't Tannehill 1st round
 
How many truly elite QB's are in the league? I can count only 2, Brady and Rogers. There are maybe 4 or 5 that are close. There are another 10 or so QB's that are winners and yet still not above the bad day that the first two only have every other year. My point: There's not enough even good QB's out there to fill up the league. That is why the high QB draft choices are at such a premium but still a crap shoot at best. To me the quest is to build a team that the QB doesn't have to 'win' every game, but if he's good enough to be the difference in 2-3 games and 1-2 in the playoff's then you have a every year contender. # 17 looks to me to be the part, although I'm not happy he didn't get fixed last years off season.
 
The first one since Marino.

And Tannehill is hurt. I cant believe you are willing to roll the dice that Tannehill will be healthy next year.

/shrug
Let's see what happens.

It's not me, it's what I expect Gase to do. If Tann's recovery is on schedule and Drs give a 'go,' the day one QB is DOA
 
How many truly elite QB's are in the league? I can count only 2, Brady and Rogers. There are maybe 4 or 5 that are close. There are another 10 or so QB's that are winners and yet still not above the bad day that the first two only have every other year. My point: There's not enough even good QB's out there to fill up the league. That is why the high QB draft choices are at such a premium but still a crap shoot at best. To me the quest is to build a team that the QB doesn't have to 'win' every game, but if he's good enough to be the difference in 2-3 games and 1-2 in the playoff's then you have a every year contender. # 17 looks to me to be the part, although I'm not happy he didn't get fixed last years off season.

Agree...I think the fix is to throttle back the QB position to the point they can no longer dominate the outcome of games. How to do it? Allow much more contact down field #1 and allow the QB to be hit like the rest of the players on the field (like the original game was played) instead of placed in a protective bubble. That alone will make them rush passes and fear the contact that is surely to come. The coddling of QB's and the elevation of their position to untouchable status in the game has allowed them to overtake the league to its on determent
 
Agreed. People LOVE to dump on Miami's scouts (somewhat justifiably), but forget how many times and how many teams passed on Russel, Prescott, and an endless number of All-Pro players. Conversely, how many teams saw Bortles as 'can't miss' or the majority of R1 picks who end up being average or worse? IIRC, Jordan was nearly universally ranked in the top 8, but it was ONLY Miami that was inept for drafting him (I opposed the pick, because it required a trade up). And we all remember the future HOFr, Ghoulston(?). For me, until QB is one of the top 3 CRITICAL needs, skip on a day one QB.
Prescott w/o Zeke and with a decent, but not great OL this season and the same receivers has actually done less with more than Tannehill when contending with porous OLs, bipolar running games and throwing to Wallace and Hartline. Dak's been bordering on pathetic at times. I think those who last season pined for that particular 4th round QB should understand why he went that low... and appreciate Tannehill all the more.
 
I will ask this, the qb's that have been elite recently, Peyton Manning, Brady, Ben,Rodgers, Brees and Russell, how have they remained successful, year after year? Are you saying these ab's have had elite linemen, defenses and coaching every year? we spend too much time trying to develop a star in every position, when the qb is the one that can make up for holes in teams. here is an example, Pats struggled in pass defense their first 6 games. They were shredded. But Brady kept in every game, and carried them. it bought enough time to where in the last 4 weeks, the pass defense is fixed and Brady is still playing at a high level. How can GB this bad with Rodgers out? That is even more of a miracle.
 
For those elite players: they have a higher intuition and creativity at the position. Also there is some core of consistency, season to season.
 
I will ask this, the qb's that have been elite recently, Peyton Manning, Brady, Ben,Rodgers, Brees and Russell, how have they remained successful, year after year? Are you saying these ab's have had elite linemen, defenses and coaching every year? we spend too much time trying to develop a star in every position, when the qb is the one that can make up for holes in teams. here is an example, Pats struggled in pass defense their first 6 games. They were shredded. But Brady kept in every game, and carried them. it bought enough time to where in the last 4 weeks, the pass defense is fixed and Brady is still playing at a high level. How can GB this bad with Rodgers out? That is even more of a miracle.

Agree with Planning and Brady mostly.
Ben, Brees, Wilson, and their teams have had stretces where they looked pedestrian. People seem to confuyse the rare,'elite' (and Brews WAS elite) with 'top (those who need help).
 
The first one since Marino.

And Tannehill is hurt. I cant believe you are willing to roll the dice that Tannehill will be healthy next year.

/shrug

Let's see what happens.

I have seen, on multiple occasions, your suggestions that this team needs to prepare to be without Tannehill in 2018, as though expecting him to return is foolish. The guy has already been in workouts, throwing in shorts, and running stadium steps. It's almost ten months until the start of next season. People can create an ENTIRELY NEW HUMAN and start on another in that much time. Do you have any information that suggests he will not come back from his injury like almost every other QB who has had a similar injury and repair?
 
I have seen, on multiple occasions, your suggestions that this team needs to prepare to be without Tannehill in 2018, as though expecting him to return is foolish. The guy has already been in workouts, throwing in shorts, and running stadium steps. It's almost ten months until the start of next season. People can create an ENTIRELY NEW HUMAN and start on another in that much time. Do you have any information that suggests he will not come back from his injury like almost every other QB who has had a similar injury and repair?

Exactly. I can understand people WANTING Tan gone, but, barring setback, he IS 2018 starter and there is no day one QB
 
To me the quest is to build a team that the QB doesn't have to 'win' every game, but if he's good enough to be the difference in 2-3 games and 1-2 in the playoff's then you have a every year contender.

I agree. IMO, Miami's recent (Philbin and Gase regimes) offensive philosophy is the reason why their offense is so bad, and it will continue to be bad until either Gase changes his offensive scheme or he is replaced. I believe you should use the old-school method of building a team with big, mean, and physically dominating players in the trenches, a strong running game, and a nasty, hard-hitting defense. (Football is a tough, physical sport... why wouldn't you want tough physical players?) Add to this a good QB who can make all the throws and you'll have a competitive, well-rounded team. If you happen to have a decent, game-manager type QB you can still win games without putting too much pressure on the QB.

But, Philbin and now Gase are into "finesse". (I guess it's because so many view the NFL as strictly a passing league, and copying fancy college offenses is trendy.) This is what I believe is Philbin's offensive philosophy (and Gase admitted to liking the same): The short pass is the basis of the entire offense. The short pass for the most part replaces the running game. Multiple receiver sets are meant to create mismatches. The QB should be able to recognize these mismatches and throw the ball to the receiver with the most favorable mismatch almost immediately after the snap. The success of this style of offense is then reliant upon the receiver getting yards after the catch. (The proof of this is seeing Miami repeatedly throw 3 or 4 yard passes when they need 7 or 8 yards for the first down.) I firmly believe the entire reason for the o-line woes is because they're getting the wrong type of o-linemen and running the wrong blocking schemes. They don't want old-school road-graders; they want quick, athletic linemen who can execute their zone-blocking schemes and get out to the second level to block for the receiver or the occasional run. Because the QB should be getting rid of the ball almost immediately after the snap there is no need for the linemen to sustain their blocks for too long, so big, strong, powerful linemen aren't wanted for this style of offense. However, the end result of Philbin and the Front Office building a line to suit their scheme/philosophy is a line that allowed Tannenhill to be sacked more than any other QB over a 4 year period. Philbin's "finesse" line was extremely weak, and was constantly pushed around and dominated by tough, physical d-lines. As for relying on the receiver making yards after the catch, Philbin's offense placed far too much emphasis on the short pass. This allowed defenses to move up and stack the box, putting them in position to both stop the run and limit the yards after the catch. Add to this a weak o-line that couldn't block a girl scout troop and the results were pathetic. The fact that Miami occasionally had a good running game or numerous successful deep balls was in spite of the offense... not because of it.

Today, Gase is running a similar style of offense, and using most of Philbin's o-linemen. Yes, they did add a few band-aids to the o-line, but it doesn't seem to be working because they're adding the wrong type of players and running the wrong style of blocking schemes. To actually achieve success with this style of offense you need an elite QB, a competent o-line, and a strong defense for when the offense stalls. Miami doesn't have an elite QB, and their defense is like their offense; weak and ineffective. They were using three first round draft picks on the o-line, and yet still couldn't effectively and consistently run block and pass block. Tannehill is NOT elite, but evidently his skillset was able to mask a lot of deficiencies on this offense... especially on the o-line. Without him, we can see that this style of offense run by an average (or worse) QB is worthless. Being probably the worst offense in the league is proof!

Miami needs to completely change its philosophy on both offense and defense, replace a lot of players on the roster, and get new Front Office personnel. This finesse garbage isn't working, so go back to "real" football. But, I don't think that Gase will ever change, so it looks like I'll have to wait until the next regime change and hope for improvement.
 
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I have seen, on multiple occasions, your suggestions that this team needs to prepare to be without Tannehill in 2018, as though expecting him to return is foolish. The guy has already been in workouts, throwing in shorts, and running stadium steps. It's almost ten months until the start of next season. People can create an ENTIRELY NEW HUMAN and start on another in that much time. Do you have any information that suggests he will not come back from his injury like almost every other QB who has had a similar injury and repair?

Any time you injure ligaments and tendons it creates scar tissue which makes the area less elastic and more susceptible to future injury. If he comes back there is no guarantee he will either play to his pre-injury level, or that he will be able to avoid missing a significant number of snaps due to future injury.

If I am Gase I am not banking my coaching career on the possibility that one guy comes back and plays at a high level without having an insurance policy waiting in the wings.

We have seen how Gase's offense works without very good QB play, even with a healthy Tannehill early last year it was ugly.

If Gase knowingly goes into next season without highly skilled depth at the QB position he is tying his own noose. There will be no excuses if Tannehill misses extended time and he could have taken a top flight QB but passed over him for some other position.
 
Any time you injure ligaments and tendons it creates scar tissue which makes the area less elastic and more susceptible to future injury. If he comes back there is no guarantee he will either play to his pre-injury level, or that he will be able to avoid missing a significant number of snaps due to future injury.

If I am Gase I am not banking my coaching career on the possibility that one guy comes back and plays at a high level without having an insurance policy waiting in the wings.

We have seen how Gase's offense works without very good QB play, even with a healthy Tannehill early last year it was ugly.

If Gase knowingly goes into next season without highly skilled depth at the QB position he is tying his own noose. There will be no excuses if Tannehill misses extended time and he could have taken a top flight QB but passed over him for some other position.

I'm sorry, but this argument simply doesn't hold water. First, some athletes come back better after ACL surgeries. Second, there is no guarantee that a new QB would not suffer a similar injury. Is the risk higher coming back from ACL surgery? Sure. But it's hardly a coin flip. One of the major factors to keeping that (and the other knee) healthy is proper rehabilitation. And Tannehill, by all reports, has been doing that religiously. Finally...where is this highly skilled depth going to come from this offseason? The Fins aren't going to be bad enough to draft Rosen. Lamar Jackson? Sam Darnold? They're not someone this team should invest a first round pick in, IMO. There are simply too many other needs. Now if you want to talk about Josh Allen or Mayfield in the 3rd-4th, fine. But they're probably going to be overdrafted.

This being said, I am all for drafting a QB every second or third year at some point no matter what...but based on value. Overdrafting one because of Tannehill's knee injury would be silly.
 
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