Pass Rusher in the 1st round......is it the best option?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Dolphinator530, Jan 29, 2011.

  1. Dolphinator530

    Dolphinator530 Well-Known Member

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    I personally think that the Dolphins are in a terrible position come this year's draft. At 15 we are out of the hunt for the only elite QB, the 2 top WR's no lineman are worthy of the 15th pick TE is too high, because while Rudolph is good he isnt THAT good. Not to mention that i think that while Ingram is good he is not worthy at the 15th pick and this is a deep draft for the RB so no need to get one at 15 and there is one player like a Peterson out of LSU would be a great addition but again the Dolphins will be out of the running for him.

    And if by some miracle the NFL creates a new CBA prior and we trade down Ingram will be gone and probably Leshoure as well, Titus Young will be a reach as will any QB at this point and some O-lineman will be available but i think FA is a better option for this position.

    So looking at how bad our position seems to be and even if we trade down (which only happens with a new CBA) it looks like getting a big time pass rusher might be the best option for this team.

    I was unable to see the senior bowl but from what i heard on here and saw posted Von Miller is an absolute monster, Justin Houston is a freak as well and has experience in the system and there are other options like, Aldon Smith, Akeem Ayers, Ryan Kerrigan. Though i think Miller and Houston are the two best prospects at the rush OLB spot and i think that Miller will probably be gone by 15 but a guy can dream but if he is there at 15 there needs to be a vapor trail up to the stage picking him and i know Houston would be there at 15 (reach?) and probably if we were able to trade down.

    So looking at all of our options I think that taking a pass rusher is the best option in the 1st round unless something completely unforeseen happens an example being if Gabbert or AJ Green falls to 15
     
  2. Pinkboy

    Pinkboy Banned Hammered

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    Kind of what I'm hoping for. You're not going find great pass rushers in free agency because that position is so valuable..., but you will find a boatload of WR's, plenty of RB's, and a good amount of offensive linemen in free agency for our offense.

    By bringing in another fierce pass rusher opposite Wake and moving Misi to ILB next to Dansby... essentially you're upgrading 2 positions with one move. Nothing would improve our defense more than adding another really good pass rusher. Good pass rushers are worth their weight in gold and we definitely need more of them.

    A linebacking corps consisting of:

    Wake-Misi-Dansby-Quinn

    or

    Miller-Misi-Dansby-Wake

    would be fine by me.

    * Edds is strictly a coverage guy as he cannot blitz at all or play downhill as he's too weak and gets brushed off by OLinemen.

    Both of your ILB's are excellent coverage ILB's (what a huge difference from 2 years ago with Crowder and Ayodele).. and both your ILB's can blitz and be a threat for offensive lines to worry about and prepare for -- opening up the outside backers even more. (notice that the Jets get a lot of their pressure from their interior LB's Scott and Harris and play alot of mindgames with O-lines that way - but the Dolphins will have much better OLB's to compliment them)

    you can also play a lot of mind games on opposing O-lines by faking a Misi blitz and shooting a safety through with a D-line twist or stunt.. Or, fake a safety blitz and have O-lines struggling to figure out which of Dansby or Misi will come in on the blitz ( having such versatility in your front 7 lineup puts offensive lines on their heels).. and you don't lose anything in coverage with Misi as he's better than Crowder in coverage when Misi retreats after showing blitz.. Crowder doesn't strike fear into any O-line as far as blitzing so they don't come into games preparing for him at all.. Misi is a smart hardworking guy so I think he can handle the transition better than most.

    This would drive offensive lines and QB's absolutely crazy as all 4 guys can get to the QB.. I think Misi could do better blitzing from the inside as he doesn't have elite pass rusher speed and can't bend from the arc very well, but he is quick enough to beat interior linemen - and he has experience against interior linemen from his college days. And of course Dansby can get to the QB as he's shown in his career by looking at his QB pressure numbers (quite high) and sack totals.

    Couple that with the very strong defensive line rotation we have (which is the strength of the team) and a linebacking corps like this would expand Nolan's playbook immensely. And it would be the first step into truly making Miami's D an elite level defense.

    Nolan is BY FAR the best and smartest coach we have so we should continue to give him good players as he knows how to put them in the best possible position to succeed. I have no faith that Sparano and Daboll can do that for the offense, and have absolutely no trust in them devoloping a QB or putting this offense in the best position to succeed. If you handed them the Patriots offensive unit they'd figure out a way to have them ranked 10 spots lower offensively.

    You'll get double the bang for your buck by giving Nolan a good young player on his defense than you will giving Sparano a good young player for the offense.
     
  3. Roonnette

    Roonnette Banned Hammered

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    The best "option," if there is such, is to trade down, get a second rd pick, and draft Mallett (rated 39) and Henkerson (52).
     
  4. Dolphinator530

    Dolphinator530 Well-Known Member

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    Well if you want to trade down you need to start praying that a new CBA is stricken here in the next 6 or 8 weeks. Which will be hard considering that I dont think the sides are very interested in speaking with each other for a few months and probably wont come to a deal until right before the season if at all this year.

    And Mallet is not our best option, he has to many flaws and runs a wide open 1 read system at Arkansas. While he can go through multiple reads he is not great at and i do not think the Dolphins are high on him.

    Like grey said, Quinn, Houston, Miller would make our D scary and you can get speedy skill players in rounds 2 (through player trades) and 3 along with FA to boost the O
     
  5. Dolphinator530

    Dolphinator530 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Grey or any draft guru's, have you heard anything about Quinn. With being out a year and missing all that chance to show off and continue to develop I dont know about him as a viable pass rusher in the NFL. While i know the skill is there I just see guys Mike Williams and Maurice Clarett who plummet of the face of the earth after missing a year.

    Is there good things coming out of Quinn's camp about how he has been preparing.
     
  6. Roonnette

    Roonnette Banned Hammered

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    I disagree. What's gonna make us scary is players who can score, and DBs who can break on the ball and take it to the house.
     
  7. Pinkboy

    Pinkboy Banned Hammered

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    1) A great defense gives the offense the ball more - to score

    2) DB's will have a lot more chances at INT's when you have a linebacking corps and defense (like the one i described) that can seriously get after the QB making his life a living hell.

    ps - there's plenty of good WR's, backs and OL in free agency, but you don't find great pass rushers available in free agency often because... guess what.. they're an extremely valuable commodity.
     
  8. Dolphinator530

    Dolphinator530 Well-Known Member

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    There are options on players who can score during FA players like Mike Sims Walker, Zach Miller, James Jones, Mercedes Lewis, Owen Daniels, Malcom Floyd are targets and can be added to beast up the O.

    I have no quarrel with getting a speedy play making guys in the draft but i think in the 2nd (if possible) getting a WR/PR/KR and maybe get a multiple treat RB the 3rd is the best way to do that.

    All i am saying is in the first round there are alot of very talented pass rushers that could benefit this team faster than getting a Qb who needs 2 or 3 years to develop into a starter.
     
  9. Roonnette

    Roonnette Banned Hammered

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    I agree with that.

    I have no confidence in Henne, Bess, Hartline to score, to stretch the field, to keep drives going consistently and take us to the ultimate level, even with Steelers D. I love Von Miller. Von Miller is the safe pick. Von Miller is not a winning pick however.
     
  10. Pinkboy

    Pinkboy Banned Hammered

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    But we have the rest of the draft and all of free agency to go offense.

    we are not saying that the offense should be ignored here.

    Four of the last 5 super bowls were won with defense. The 2 teams in the super bowl this year have the #1 and #2 ranked scoring defenses.. all the talk of their offenses, but a good part of it is because those defenses give their offenses the football so much for more (and better) opportunities to score.
     
  11. Roonnette

    Roonnette Banned Hammered

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    True. Our D gave our O so many opportunities, and they failed though. I can see it your way. There are some O players I like in later rounds, so bottom line is it depends on the whole draft and FA. Look, a draft could be structured where first 4 players are on D, and I'd be happy with, but it depends on players taken.
     
  12. SCOTTY

    SCOTTY Well-Known Member

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    With the 30th worst offense and investing so much in the D already. I never considered going defense again with the 1st pick. Dolphinator530-why do we have to hope for a CBA if we want to trade down-am I misreadin your 2nd paragraph? A CBA does not need to be in place to trade draft picks, just to trade player.
     
  13. Pinkboy

    Pinkboy Banned Hammered

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    remember that our D looked best against some real crappy backup QB's.. the backup on the raiders, trent edwards (lucky we didn';t face fitzpatrick and Campbell who are better and they're starters).. delhomme instead of Mccoy. a bad kerry collins, etc etc. Guys who don't belong in the league.

    I like our defense but let's face it, they got real lucky with the qb's they faced pumping their numbers. I am not as confident in the defense as it currently stands in the playoffs against the good QB's. We can't ignore the D because although it's improved, it isn't as good as their ranking shows this year imo.

    I'm all-in for Von Miller.. adding a great player at a very valuable position that's worth gold is never a bad move. When you hold teams to 14-16 pts per game you have a great chance to win most of your games.. especially if that defense creates a lot of turnovers giving the offense the ball in good field position, and/or gives them the ball more period.
     
  14. Roonnette

    Roonnette Banned Hammered

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    I agree that it could be improved. I just feel that the improvements needed are more in the secondary, specifically the Clemons, Smith, and Bell spot. No hands, no play making ability.

    The fact that Von Miller is an OLB, which is an important and difficult position, and is so highly rated, would make me think twice before drafting any offensive player. But I think I'd still take Mallett.
     
  15. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Miller is the most interesting defensive player I've seen in a few years. I can't see him falling to 15, but if he's there, and if we're not going QB anyway - because we're idiots - then I'd love to have him. If we trade down because we're not going QB anyway, I'd love to have Houston.

    But, if we go with Kaepernick, I'll blow my brains out.
     
  16. Elliott 1

    Elliott 1 Banned Hammered

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    I agree with drafting Von Miller, but if Kerrigan runs a 4.7 I would spend the 15th on him as well. I think he would make a seemless adjustment to OLB in the 3-4, but if he doesn't have the athleticism needed, he would be just as lame as Mike Vrabel was this year.
    All the smarts and intangibles in the world don't help if you just can't get there. However, didn't I see Kerrigan cut Locke off in the senior bowl today? A slow guy would not have made that play, and he made it easily.

    I would also acquire Mathias Kiwanuka in FA. Risky because of his injury history, but a seasoned veteran who played both LB and DE for the Giants. A healthy Kiwanuka could turn out to be one of the best situational pass rushers in the NFL, in the mold of Bertrand Berry.

    I would also look to acquire Shaun Rogers. Collapsing the middle of the pocket on 2nd, and 3rd and long is severely underrated.

    In the new age of the NFL, making QB's like virgin hymens, the defensive pass rush must be prioritized. Pressures and hits must become just as valueable as sacks.

    Misi is going to be a great football player but I would give him a year to transition from DE/OLB to ILB. Takeo Spikes would be an affordable acquisition to give Misi a little time to become the next Urlacher.
     
  17. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Von Miller wouldn't have fell to the 15 spot before the Sebior Bowl showing. He was a top 10 pick the moment he declared.

    You dudes not watch college football at all? This dude is insane. He's probably the third or fourth best player in this year's draft behind Patrick Peterson, Nick Fairley, and Da'Quan Bowers.
     
  18. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    BPA and that will more then likely be a pass rusher, don't reach for a QB or RB just for the sake of need!
     
  19. Dolphinator530

    Dolphinator530 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i was just saying he is the best of a good class of pass rushers, Houston and the rest are all potentially very good pickups, though with quinn i am not sure because he missed the season. And lke some have said getting that pass rusher wold allow us to either have depth at OLB or move Misi and improve 2 position with one move.

    So your argument is right and Miller will probably be gone, the only reason i said was because he weighed in smaller than expected but then went into beast mode and made himself a lock for top 10.
     
  20. ROADRUNNER

    ROADRUNNER FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Von Miller is your pick at #15............
     
  21. MisiDressing

    MisiDressing Banned Hammered

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    Von Miller will never make it to 15. The OP is right that we're gonna be in a tough spot at 15.

    I see these players being gone.

    QB: Gabbert, Newton
    WR: Green, Jones
    DT: Fairley, Dareus
    DE: Bowers, Quinn
    CB: Peterson, Amukamara
    LB: Miller

    Those 11 are probably a lock to be off the baord with Newton just needing a good combine. After that, I'm not even so sure Mark Ingram makes it to our pick. I wouldn't put it past DET to scoop him up. Jahvid Best didn't prove that he can be a featured back. And so many teams are running two RB systems that, Ingram could go just about anywhere outside the top 10.

    There are a few more pass rushers who will compete for that top 15 and Ryan Mallett could still improve his stock. The other guy who could be top 15 (and particularly make sense for us) is OT Derrick Sherrod. He's more of a RT but at least he had a good showing at the Senior Bowl (much better than Solder and Castanzo). Finally, we could also look at Baylor NT Phil Taylor. He dominated at the Senior Bowl but has off field concerns.

    Anyway, I still doubt we pick at 15. I see us trading down.

    I'm afraid they'll trade down and take Kaepernick (who I think is getting too much hype now). I'd rather we trade down and take Christian Ponder, Leonard Hankerson or Mikel Leshoure.
     
  22. Dolphin Dave

    Dolphin Dave Scout Team

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    This had me scratching my head as well. What does the CBA have to do with our ability to trade draft picks up or down?
     
  23. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    How do you figure Sherrod's more of a RT prospect?
     
  24. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Yeah 15 isn't looking real good right now, unless teams reach for some of the quarterbacks which will probably happen. I don't think Miami is in the best trade down position either, but you never know what other teams might do and who slides if those top four qb's go faster than expected. As to Miller, I think he vaulted himself into the top 10 with his senior bowl performance. Ryan Kerrigan is an interesting prospect and seems like the type this front office would like. We do need another pass rusher for sure so I agree with you there, but I think Mark Ingram may end up being the best talent on board.
     
  25. Roonnette

    Roonnette Banned Hammered

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    Every year there is some defensive phenom who gets the hype. Last year it was Eric Berry is a must, or you are an idiot. This year it's Von Miller, end all be all solution to defensive problems. Brandon Graham opposite Wake. Odrick was compared to Ngata. Soliai couldn't cut it. Oh lord, spare me please!
     
  26. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    What's the scouting report on Houston? Is he considered a 1st rounder?
     
  27. MisiDressing

    MisiDressing Banned Hammered

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    IF WE COULDN'T TRADE DOWN, I know Kerrigan would be a solid pick but I'd really rather go offense - either Mark Ingram or Leonard Hankersom or Mikel Leshoure.
     
  28. MisiDressing

    MisiDressing Banned Hammered

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    Feet a little but more b/c on our team he obviously wouldn't unseat Jake Long so he'd be drafted to play RT. (And give us a backup LT if Long got hurt.)
     
  29. utahphinsfan

    utahphinsfan Puck Fitzburgh

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    Like Seattle?

    Lets hope Philly gets anxious and really wants Solder or Sherrod. Reid & Co have been known to move up i.e. Graham last yr. The phins could then acquire Kendricks from Wisconsin & a 2nd round pick.

    Agreed, but, Mayock hit the nail on the head when he said Kerrigan is a 4-3 LDE. If Edwards leaves in FA Minny could grap him.

    If Miller is gone, Ayres (UCLA) should still be on the board.
     
  30. Dolphinator530

    Dolphinator530 Well-Known Member

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    So not only has he had experience in a true 3-4 system he has excelled. If he has good workouts he will easily be a 1st rounder
     
  31. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    If Kerrigan and Ingram are both on the board and Miami can't trade down, I also would take Ingram. He's not flashy, but he's an awfully talented back. Could do a lot worse and I think he's pretty close to a sure thing.
     
  32. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I think Ayres is an overrated prospect. In my view, he just seems to coast sometimes.
     
  33. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Thanks. He sounds really good.
     
  34. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    love von miller...love him...he displayed things yesterday in that game that took his already top 20 grade likely into the top 10 imo...he's a top 20 pass rush talent alone...you add in those hips and that cod and fluidity in space and wow...kids awfully impressive...gonna light the lb drills on fire at the combine

    if he's not on the menu i'd use a late round pick on brooks reed who has some things in his arsenal to work with...

    ayers is overrated...he looks really fluid and good in space but he's not half the edge pass rusher that von miller is imo...

    as for kerrigan i think he's a 4-3 end all the way...and i'm a fan
     
  35. retarmyfinfan

    retarmyfinfan Brave Rifles Donator

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    I don't think there is any elite QB's in this years draft.
     
  36. Pinkboy

    Pinkboy Banned Hammered

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    Stay away from Ayers... Ayers will be a total bust.. I can spot busts at LB a mile away.

    People thought I was nuts when I laid out all the reasons why Gholston would be a total bust before the 2008 draft, and I said it with total and unquivocal conviction that he would not only be a bust, but a TOTAL bust (there's a big difference). LAst year my bust special was Sergio Kindle and wrote 100 posts on it just like I did Gholston. Kindle had an uncommon injury but rest assured he's a worthless football player in the pro's as a OLB in the 3-4 if he played.

    I hated Aaron Maybin and look at him, they're talking about cutting him after being a 1st rounder just 2 years ago..and there's many more lb's I've called out who'd bust and did.. I never miss.,

    I was the top Cam Wake supporter on this board after the signing ( knew him well).. arguing incessantly with people here who said he'd be lucky to see backup duty in the NFL, and were trying to tell me I was crazy because they were saying how a CFL defensive player never made a real impact in the NFL, and yadda yadda yadda... while I was saying how Wake will be an elite pass rusher in this league.. DLockz and I went back and forth for 2 months arguing about it.

    I said he can make the pro bowl in this league before he ever suited up for a single practice with the Dolphins, .. and lookit, he played in it today.

    Stay 1000 miles away from Ayers. The bust OLB special of 2011.
     
  37. PhinsPhan11

    PhinsPhan11 Phins & Philly Sports

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    Miller would be a solid pick for this team because with him this would be a real good LB core. I am hoping that he would be at our pick.
     
  38. dr.jake

    dr.jake Rookie

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    what's the general consensus on clemson's jarvis jenkins. this dude seems like a wrecking ball on and off the field. where do you project he'll go?
     
  39. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    jarvis jenkins flashed some things at the senior bowl for me...not sure he's a nose tackle at the next level though...maybe more 4-3 dt

    he's got some potential no doubt
     
  40. WelcomeBack

    WelcomeBack A True Fan

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    Personally, I don't see Brooks Reed getting out of the 2nd or 3rd round. I heard nothing but positives about his motor, work ethic and ability to stand up at the Senior Bowl. He'll shine at the Combine as well. Not as fast or fluid as Von, but damn impressive in his own right.
     

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