Thanks southbeach, we'll see if I am re-banned by then
Banned? Really? How come?
Philbin vs Sparano?
- Thread starter So Be
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Banned? Really? How come?
As I've said before, Sparano could gameplan. The first 20 or so plays are scripted. And for most of his time as our coach, we looked at least competent during those scripted plays. It's just once he had to do in game coaching and make adjustments, he failed. Maybe not as much in 2008/09 (though he was aided by Pennington, and Joey Porter each having one last great year and Andre Goodman having a great 6 games) but it was a case quite a bit.
And he coached scared at times. It was a joke around here, but going back and rewatching some of his games, it's alarming how many times we actually passed quite a bit to get into or near the redzone, and then Tony would go into a shell and play for a field goal. I'll also never forget after we actually beat the Packers in OT a few years ago when asked why he didn't try a hail mary at the end of the game he said "what if the Packers got an interception in the end zone and ran it back?" too much worrying about something unlikely.
Now I like Philbin, but he's made some obvious mistakes (mostly from man management). I feel he laid an egg at the end of the season after the Pats game. I also put a lot of the offenses lack of adjustments on him. (I think Sherman's playcalling was an issue, but he didn't help)
And he coached scared at times. It was a joke around here, but going back and rewatching some of his games, it's alarming how many times we actually passed quite a bit to get into or near the redzone, and then Tony would go into a shell and play for a field goal. I'll also never forget after we actually beat the Packers in OT a few years ago when asked why he didn't try a hail mary at the end of the game he said "what if the Packers got an interception in the end zone and ran it back?" too much worrying about something unlikely.
Now I like Philbin, but he's made some obvious mistakes (mostly from man management). I feel he laid an egg at the end of the season after the Pats game. I also put a lot of the offenses lack of adjustments on him. (I think Sherman's playcalling was an issue, but he didn't help)
He also got a raw deal as the OC with NYJ.....they didn't sign key pieces of OL and WR....then trade for Tebow and told him to make it work....not to mention they were in cap hell so they couldn't add pieces they desperately needed....I do think he and Ryan would be a good match with better players....
no need to get into it on here, if you want to know PM me.
---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------
In one way yes but the design of his O was atrocious. he had bad luck w/ injuries and the tebow stuff but instantly even w/ bad talent in 2013 we could see a difference w/ the design of the offense. I think he's best suited as a line coach.
So Be
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To explain further, I put up a very similar thread last year. It was ripped to hell, and the no thanks set the OP on fire. This year, a very reasonable discussion.
To a much lessor degree, I put up a "Second Guessing Hickey?" thread recently. I basically said that I would have much preferred filling 3 spots on the OL, and a much younger and better CB in Verner over Finnegen for about the same money.
This was met with 24 no thanks, which was surprising. Guess Hickey is beyond being questioned, in the minds of some, for some reason which I do not understand. Go figure.
the majority of fans on boards like this are homers so anything critical will not be looked at kindly.
So Be
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Not buying that. Most of the "Not So Silent Majority" love to be negative. They rip PFF for saying the OL was average in pass protect as well as Jerry being good, Wilson being good in slot cover, Tannehill for being #7, Clemons for being good in cover, Clabo, DT's being good vs the run, etc, etc.
They rip DT, Hartline, Wallace, LB's, Wilson, Carroll, and even wanted Miller cut after a first game preseason fumble, which was not his fault.
Nah, not buying that at all.
I guess, I think the average fan sways w/ the wind.
100% Dolphins
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Nice to see you back Junc, hardly noticed you were gone, just like the Jets are hardly going to notice any improvement in their run game with the recent addition of Johnson
. :brewskis:
We got our man Moreno.
. :brewskis:We got our man Moreno.
Nice to see you back Junc, hardly noticed you were gone, just like the Jets are hardly going to notice any improvement in their run game with the recent addition of Johnson
We got our man Moreno.
thanks for the kind words
did you know Moreno grew up a big Jet fan?
our RBs are better than yours, you still have the edge at WR at TE though but we are gaining.
You can pick good from Joe & Tony, but at same time take the bad and compare, if end result is the deciding factor then clearly Tony has the edge for many reasons, but since Joe's end hasn't come yet and only in year 3, kind of unfit to compare who was better.
When Tony came to Miami, he was a O-Line coach that eventually got our line situated in terms of playing hard given the pieces Jeff got him. The big thing is, when Tony saw stuff wasn't working, he was open minded to try whatever for the win and listened when Henning brought the wildcat package, we got wins from it. His downsides were he played to for lack of better wording, scared when it came to taking chances on around 3rd and a few yards when within the opponents 35yrd line and usually settled for a field goal & fist pump. It went off the tracks record wise for him due to that near the end but you could tell he was a players coach.
When Joe came, he was praised as a O-Cord that ran the west coast offense, but he took that over after a few years(I believe it was something like 4 years 07-11), so he walked into the role with good pieces in place, so he could run his style of the WCO from the get go, now compare that to coming into Miami HC role.. He stepped in and majority assumed he was going to be have us slinging the ball over the field, but he needed pieces for that(now that Lazor is here and may run something close to it, we are into year 3 of Joe getting his pieces to run this offense as he envisioned when he took the job i.e now that the foundation is there, let's see how the building compares to what Tony built here). The downside so far from Joe is, he seems to not be very much a players coach, more along the lines of a old school football coach approach to all business from otas till week 17), not saying players don't react to him, just it could have been a culture shock to those left over from Tony days. The biggest flaw that is now removed is, Joe doesn't have Sherman designing the plays and being stuck in ways of do it my way or not at all that Sherman always done since his so called golden days as a coach. So now we get to see what Joe and Lazor are building on Offense and how they can react halftime wise to their gameplan and changing/tweaking stuff on the fly instead of "ok running on 1st and 2nd down for 2 yards didn't work in the first half, bet it works the 2nd half".
Not many want to hear it, but with installing Joe's offense and not Sherman's with Lazor playcalling and designing, we will likely need this year and the following to see how it pans out, but it's a win now league. If basing Tony's whole run as coach to Joe's heading into 3rd season, goes to Tony but still can see Joe has building and see where he wants to place it for all to see, just a question of is he allowed to finish the building process or does he get told nope sorry putting up a motel here instead and we repeat the cycle of swinging doors.
When Tony came to Miami, he was a O-Line coach that eventually got our line situated in terms of playing hard given the pieces Jeff got him. The big thing is, when Tony saw stuff wasn't working, he was open minded to try whatever for the win and listened when Henning brought the wildcat package, we got wins from it. His downsides were he played to for lack of better wording, scared when it came to taking chances on around 3rd and a few yards when within the opponents 35yrd line and usually settled for a field goal & fist pump. It went off the tracks record wise for him due to that near the end but you could tell he was a players coach.
When Joe came, he was praised as a O-Cord that ran the west coast offense, but he took that over after a few years(I believe it was something like 4 years 07-11), so he walked into the role with good pieces in place, so he could run his style of the WCO from the get go, now compare that to coming into Miami HC role.. He stepped in and majority assumed he was going to be have us slinging the ball over the field, but he needed pieces for that(now that Lazor is here and may run something close to it, we are into year 3 of Joe getting his pieces to run this offense as he envisioned when he took the job i.e now that the foundation is there, let's see how the building compares to what Tony built here). The downside so far from Joe is, he seems to not be very much a players coach, more along the lines of a old school football coach approach to all business from otas till week 17), not saying players don't react to him, just it could have been a culture shock to those left over from Tony days. The biggest flaw that is now removed is, Joe doesn't have Sherman designing the plays and being stuck in ways of do it my way or not at all that Sherman always done since his so called golden days as a coach. So now we get to see what Joe and Lazor are building on Offense and how they can react halftime wise to their gameplan and changing/tweaking stuff on the fly instead of "ok running on 1st and 2nd down for 2 yards didn't work in the first half, bet it works the 2nd half".
Not many want to hear it, but with installing Joe's offense and not Sherman's with Lazor playcalling and designing, we will likely need this year and the following to see how it pans out, but it's a win now league. If basing Tony's whole run as coach to Joe's heading into 3rd season, goes to Tony but still can see Joe has building and see where he wants to place it for all to see, just a question of is he allowed to finish the building process or does he get told nope sorry putting up a motel here instead and we repeat the cycle of swinging doors.
roy_miami
2020 cant get here soon enough
I agree with all of this and would add that thanks to Ireland's ineptitude Philbin's transformation is probably a year behind where it could have been. It pisses me off that we squandered a great opportunity and with one or two key moves we very easily could have won the division and had a first round bye, at the very least it was a playoff team. On the other hand it all worked out brilliantly for me...Ireland and Sherman are gone and Philbin and Tannehill remain in tact. If Tannehill is the real deal I believe we have all the other pieces in place to get it done (obviously Hickey is an unknown but he can't be any worse).
It should matter at the/whenever his end of coaching Miami is(not saying it doesn't factor in now, just kind of unfit to go ok Joe forced the zbs scheme and then compare it to list of what Tony did). Having said that, here's a question for you, if Tony wasn't handpicked by "THE BIG TUNA", would we as fans have put so much pressure on expecting nothing less then amazing from the product he put on the field? I don't think Tony was as bad as many made him out to be, he made do with what he had. I asked the question because I know there Joe lovers and Joe haters, I'm neither, I just don't want a revolving door of 4 year cycle of new coach, new system, etc and watching it over and over, so at the end of the day if Joe was picked by Tuna, would people see him more of a failure then a let's see the process play out or no because that is what he seemed to be like for Tony
roy_miami
2020 cant get here soon enough
I still like the tuna so my hatred for Sparano has nothin to do with that. I think it comes down to personality types, I'm a very analytical person that rarely shows any outward emotion, which suits me well as a poker player, and Philbin is similar. Sparano was a fly by the seat of his pants nitwit. I have mad respect for Philbin's ability to almost always make the correct decision under pressure without wasting any time. I also appreciate the importance he places on not wasting timeouts and not taking stupid procedural penalties and false starts. I have all the confidence in the world that Philbin could handle the pressure of the superbowl. If Sparano was forced to decide between kicking a FG, punt or go for it on 4th and 2 from the opponents 38 yard line....
