Poll: Fielder Out? | Page 18 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Poll: Fielder Out?

Should Jay Fieldler Remain a Dolphin?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 121 51.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 93 39.9%
  • Uncertain.

    Votes: 19 8.2%

  • Total voters
    233
  • Poll closed .
Originally posted by Asphyx


No it was because Jay was INCAPABLE should NOT have been forced on Norv...you want to change from a SUCCESSFULL system to somthing a SCRUB could do but god forbid we should change the SCRUB who couldn't run ANY NFL system put in front of him!

That SCRUB is by your (intermittant) admission the best guy we had over Norv's two years. If that is the case, then I absolutely expect Norv to adjust the system. He wouldn't have run as much as he did if the RB was Bernie Parmalee, would he?

I am all for changing the "SCRUB" just as soon as we know we have a better solution. I keep saying this over and over again, and yet you still say:

but the truth is you don'treally want to keep Jay as a backup...it is simply a way of trying to sound sane, but in truth you just want Jay around so he can start and say AJ was a failure so we need to keep Jay yet ONe MORE year after this!

Quotes like that just make you sound unstable, man. I have had just about enough of you impugning me in this way. I have no interest in this other than keeping this team in the hunt. This is probably going to be one of the last few years together for a lot of these guys. If you call me a liar or imply that I am one again, I will ignore you.

This is EXACTLY the point! Jay could NOT run ANY system...He SUCKS!

It would seem that you are again contradicted by more than one FO. The Jaguars felt he could run a system, and so did the Dolphins. I still stand by my opinion that he could run the WCO relatively well.

You blame Norv for not being able to make a pile of crap smell like roses instead of blaming the pile of crap for being crap!

I see no reason to blame anybody for failing to get the result I want when I know they have done all they can to get it. I hated seeing those horrid Royals punts, but I didn't blame him for being on the team or for giving each one his all. I'm glad he is gone, but I wouldn't have wanted to just get rid of him for somebody who quite possibly couldn't get the punting/holding duties done as well as he could have. I would want a competition if at all possible. Thankfully, Turk was a known quantity.


No Randy doesn't go out BECAUSE sending him out was worthless! If the QB can't get a ball to him then he might as well block! Why did we RUN so much? Because we couldn't pass..
And he had 49 Rec...I would like to see data that says he didn't go out on routes as much as he stayed in to block!
You make it sound like Norv didn't send him out for passes but that is just WRONG!
He sent him...he was not thrown to!

If Jay couldn't get him the ball, how did he get 49 catches? :rolleyes:

I am just frankly shocked that you don't believe we kept the TE in more often than we would have liked to due to the horrid offensive line. I guess it's just easier for you to believe that all the evil in the world comes from #9.


McNabb is a KNOWN GOOD Starter...is AJ?
So Detmer can be a wrose QB than McNabb because you HAVE McNabb who is a damn good QB...
Can you say without a doubt AJ is a DAMN GOOD STARTER?
McNabb you know will NOT be a failure but AJ might..He is an UNKNOWN! It is better to have someone else you don't know is WORSE or will FAIL to backup an UNKNOWN Quantity as starter!
If AJ fails you have NO potential starter you way...My way you DO!
Just another chance to hit success while your way is WELL KNOWN by now that it will fail!
And you still haven't fully addressed why you want a competition for starter here...Is Jay starter material or not?

I argue that it works exactly the other way:

When you have a known starter, you need a guy who can be a band-aid. When you have a guy who is a question mark, you have to have a backup who can start and be successful. Jay is that man, no matter how you personally feel about him. Under him as the starter, this team ended the season with 11, 11, 9, and 10 wins. That is success except by what is apparently your warped definition.


Why is that? Is it because he makes too much to be a BACKUP?

I would argue that it has more to do with the QB controversy he invites and the team's cap space. I'm sure salary is a consideration, just as I'm sure it is with Jay. I wouldn't be quite as opposed to releasing Jay after 6/1 because it might actually make some sort of cap sense at that point. I think it's certainly possible that Jay might take a pay cut if AJ looks good and it seems he will be the backup, though. I would want the team to at least extend that option before cutting him. I would also want to go after an experienced backup like Warner in that situation. Why is that? Because that is my interest in keeping Jay: having a known quantity in the midst of the uncertainty AJ brings.

Ok Follow me...
You way AJ fails...you put in a KNOWN failure...recipie for a loosing season....

You mean like the last four losing seasons? :rolleyes:

Asphyx, reality is on the phone for you. Look up our record. If Jay is the starter, we'll see 9-7 as a bare minimum. That is what Jay is capable of delivering. He is a known quantity.

My way AJ Fails...I put in another UNKNOWN Quantity who could be then next Brady or Garcia or Warner...I get SUCCESS!

NO YOU DO NOT You might get that, but you might get Vick going down and Doug Johnson/Kurt Kittner coming in. Don't throw away one of the final Taylor/Thomas/Bowens/Madison/Surtain seasons like that.


Yeah because your only worried about IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION you are NOT concerned with what is best for the team NOW or in the LONG TERM!

What I am concerned about is making a run for the playoffs if that is the team's purpose. If they want to rebuild, I am for that. We don't need to be buying guys like AJ or Boston if that is the motive, though. The team has chosen a course, and I want to see them stay on that course rather than going on some insane hunt for the next Tom Brady at the expense of a year.


Answer me this....
Which is better for the team?
Going 10-6 and missing the playoffs?
OR
Going 1-15 and missing the playoffs?
Which is better for the TEAM?
And tell me why!

Neither outcome is good for the team. I would argue that 10-6 is the better of the two because it wouldn't cause the sort of cancer that rips a good team apart like a 1-15 season would.

Well you said Jay wasn't starter material so why isn't feeley being named starter? Why isn't he practicing with the starters?

YOU DO NOT REPLACE A 4 YEAR STARTER WITH A PLAYER THAT HAS 5 GAMES EXPERIENCE BECAUSE DOING SO SHOWS DISRESPECT TO THE ESSENCE OF WHAT A STARTER IS

What has to happen is the sort of competition that the Dolphins have set up. Otherwise, you cause chaos in the team because every starter has to constantly watch his back every time a youngster is added. You must give a starter a chance to compete for his job at a minimum in this situation.

How can you INSTALL a new guy when you have some guy who is deemed NOT CAPABLE of being starter taking half the snaps away?

Ask the Panthers. You tell me how that isn't like Peete/Delhomme. I have more faith in AJ than I did in Jake (because McNabb is a harder guy to displace than Brooks), but I think the situation is otherwise pretty much similar. Where did the Panthers get last year?

What are you trying to keep stable?

I am trying to keep the streak of winning seasons alive. I'm also trying to keep the team alive for the playoffs. If Jay can get the team there, it is conceivable that AJ could come in late in the season and lead the team the rest of the way. It is also not impossible that Jay could pull a Trent Dilfer and end up with a ring as a starting QB. Anybody who says otherwise is just blinded by Jay hatred.

At least Sage deserves a shot...one he has never gotten...why should he get dumped BEFORE we know he sucks and Jay should stay TWO YEARS after we figured out he DID suck?

If our coaching staff blows so badly that you don't trust them to correctly evaluate Sage's talent as being less than Jay's, everybody from Wayne down needs to go before this team is going anywhere. This proposition is ludicrious.


The part you quoted was in reference to why didn't I post Jay's record vs playoff teams not win% and SOS....I'm still waiting to see your results on that question!

Even though I'm curious about this, I WILL NOT compile this information since you say you know what it is. I again call for you to post it.

I did explain in a seperate post why your calculations were wrong on Win%, Not because the numbers you used were wrong but because you didn't find a common denominator to make an accurate comparison...You need to find a common denominator in either SOS or Win Pct before you can say which one had the edge in the other...

Let's try this again:

Win% is the number of games out of 1000 that the QB would win.
SOS is the number of games out of 1000 that the opposing team would win.

We're just subtracting wins here. It is as legitimate as it comes. Jay would have 67 more wins than Brian against teams that have 32 fewer wins over that 1000 games. That makes 35 net wins of difference. Why is this conceptually so difficult for you?

ANSWER: The play was there I Just didn't get the job done!

I'm sure you would love that answer because it would just help spur on the riot against Jay that has been on the verge of happening ever since he came on. Why not have Jay give out his home address and when the police aren't generally patrolling his neighborhood, too?

No you took TWO DIFFERENT WinPctg based on TWO DIFFERENT SOS' ...If Jay played the SAME SOS that Griese had played he would most probably have a WORSE winning PCT!

The truth of the matter is that the numbers don't tell us anything of this nature. We would only know how Jay would have done against the Titans if Jay had played against the Titans. Same goes for the Patriots and Brian. Numbers are just easy to compare so they make a nice shorthand.
 
That SCRUB is by your (intermittant) admission the best guy we had over Norv's two years.
And that is Norvs fault how again?


Quotes like that just make you sound unstable, man. I have had just about enough of you impugning me in this way. I have no interest in this other than keeping this team in the hunt.

Lets get something clear right now...
Do you think Jay is a starter or a backup because you go back and forth on this more times than a shuttle bus!

And what is Jay keeping us in the hunt for? the Cellar?


It would seem that you are again contradicted by more than one FO. The Jaguars felt he could run a system,
OH BULL the Jags didn't think he could run the system and that is why they let him go! Wasn't he beat out by Dilfer? Stop making stuff up!

I see no reason to blame anybody for failing to get the result I want when I know they have done all they can to get it.
Funny you don't apply that thought to the WRs the OL or Norv Turner now do you?
Only Jay gets the well you did your best...not your fault you suck Jay....

If Jay couldn't get him the ball, how did he get 49 catches?
Yeah 49 recs in how many attempted throws? Missed him half the times he threw to him!

I am just frankly shocked that you don't believe we kept the TE in more often than we would have liked to due to the horrid offensive line
It's easy to not believe what isn't true...Post some stats to prove we did that!

When you have a known starter, you need a guy who can be a band-aid. When you have a guy who is a question mark, you have to have a backup who can start and be successful. Jay is that man,
ROFLMAO Jay is that man...YOU have said he is not suited to be a successfull starter now you say this crap...your losing credibility fast here...

You mean like the last four losing seasons?
I answered the phone it WAS reality...he wants to talk to YOU...
Wants to know what we WON the last 4 years.....

NO YOU DO NOT You might get that, but you might get Vick going down and Doug Johnson/Kurt Kittner coming in
And you way you KNOW your getting Doug Johnson Kurt Kittner...
My way I at least have a CHANCE to get something good...your way we KNOW alright what we will get....SCRUB!

What I am concerned about is making a run for the playoffs if that is the team's purpose
And once we get into those playoffs what will happen?
See the stats on Jay vs Playoff teams you had all weekend to work on but refuse to post because you would have to post the stats that show he sucks and you can't bring yourself to do that!

Neither outcome is good for the team. I would argue that 10-6 is the better of the two because it wouldn't cause the sort of cancer that rips a good team apart like a 1-15 season would.
WRONG ANSWER!!!!!! Going 1-15 makes the team say enough is enough and we get the top overall pick to fix the problem with....
going 10-6 gets players pointing fingers at each other saying if this guy did this and that guy did that we would have won...and all you get to correct the problem is a 20th ranked Pick which YOU claim isn't enough to get a GOOD QB with....

YOU DO NOT REPLACE A 4 YEAR STARTER WITH A PLAYER THAT HAS 5 GAMES EXPERIENCE BECAUSE DOING SO SHOWS DISRESPECT TO THE ESSENCE OF WHAT A STARTER IS
But you said Jay was a backup not a starer didn't you?
So then we are replacing a BACKUP not a 4 year starter now aren't we?
Shuttle bus is back I see...

Ask the Panthers. You tell me how that isn't like Peete/Delhomme.
Neither peete or Delhomme had failed 4 year straight! And showed they couldn't run the system yet!



I am trying to keep the streak of winning seasons alive. I'm also trying to keep the team alive for the playoffs. If Jay can get the team there,
Jay can't get the team there....hasn't done it in 2 years...
So all your keeping stable is Jay's employment not our winning seasons...our winning seasons are because of the defense NOT Jay...and since the Defense is basically the same the stability is already there...Jay will only hurt that stability by blowing games like Houston!

Even though I'm curious about this, I WILL NOT compile this information since you say you know what it is. I again call for you to post it.
NO! I asked YOU for the info...either post them or admit you don't want to because you refuse to post the stats that show Jay sucks and can't beat anyone but scrubs!
If you refuse to post them everyone here will know it is because you refuse to admit the truth about Jay and just want him here forever despite all your going back and forth on him eing here a starter and a backup!
If you intend to DUCK a direct question than at least admit your ducking it!

Win% is the number of games out of 1000 that the QB would win.
SOS is the number of games out of 1000 that the opposing team would win.
How stupid are you?
SOS is STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE not how many games out of 1000 an opposing team would win...It is HOW STRONG the teams he played against are!
IE Jay plays 10 games against .500 teams
Griese plays 10 games against .540 teams...
Griese beat BETTER TEAMS than Jay beat and if he had played 10 games against .500 teams his WIN PCT would probably be HIGHER than it was against the .540 teams...
You obviously don't have any clue what SOS is or how Win Pct only tells half the story...a typical Jaybot affliction!

I'm sure you would love that answer because it would just help spur on the riot against Jay that has been on the verge of happening ever since he came on
Well if he was capable of making the plays he wouldn't have to say it that often now would he?
You see if you do GOOD most of the time then he wouldn't have to explain a BAD play that often would he...he also wouldn't be starting a riot over him being here if he did that but you forgot that point didn't you?
This is what happens when you keep a guy that sucks....NO ONE but the incredibly STUPID still want him around!

The truth of the matter is that the numbers don't tell us anything of this nature
From your previous statement it shows you don't even know what the numbers mean so it is pointless to debate with someone who is too ignorant to grasp the concept of SOS in relation to Win Pct...

But I'll try one last time...

QB A plays 10 games against 4-10 teams and wins them all...
QB B Plays 5 games against 8-8 teams and 5 against 12-4 teams and wins 9 of them....Who is the better QB?
The guy with the 10 wins against scrubs or the guy with the 9 wins against much tougher competition?

Get it now?
DOUBT IT...I WANT MY JAY!
I can't wait for his *** to get cut!
Then I won't have to listen to the Jaybotic crap anymore!
 
Originally posted by Asphyx

And that is Norvs fault how again?

Is your position seriously that coordinators should be held blameless unless they have ideal talent? While Norv didn't choose the guys he got, it was still his job to make the offense work. Norv failed just as much as all of the players combined did because they at least put in effort on the field. Norv's effort to adapt the offense was apparently limited to throwing away half the playbook and getting all upset when things didn't go right on the field. He should have put some of that destructive energy into improving things, particularly from year 1 to year 2.


Lets get something clear right now...
Do you think Jay is a starter or a backup because you go back and forth on this more times than a shuttle bus!

I think that Jay is a good backup for this year and that he is the starter until AJ or somebody else who is brought in shows us that they're ready to take over. I keep saying this over and over. It's not a confusing position. I do not want to see Jay enter the season as the starter because I think the team can do better than him as the starter. With that said, I think he is adequate if the team doesn't get somebody better in here. He is better than just throwing away the year looking for the next Tom Brady like you're suggesting we do. If AJ is the next Tom Brady and can demonstrate that in camp/preseason, I will be a huge AJ supporter and won't look back. Otherwise, we have to go with the horse that has done well for us over the past 4 years.


And what is Jay keeping us in the hunt for? the Cellar?

This is the sort of ludicrous statement that is destroying any credibility you had. We haven't even been in sniffing distance of the cellar in a very long time. Jay keeps us in the hunt for the playoffs. You're going to say that he can't win it for us, but I will suggest that we'll worry about that once we're in. You have to be in it to win it.


Funny you don't apply that thought to the WRs the OL or Norv Turner now do you?
Only Jay gets the well you did your best...not your fault you suck Jay....

I didn't blame any player in this manner. I can see where you would think the Norv thing is similar, but I blame Norv because I know he can do better. I know his history in Dallas as an OC.


Yeah 49 recs in how many attempted throws? Missed him half the times he threw to him!

Even Peyton Manning missed on 33% of his throws last year. I agree that Jay's 2003 57% completion percentage is hardly ideal, but we have to be realistic about the pass not being a sure thing. The problem is not that Jay misses 43% of the time -- it's that in comparison to others, he misses probably 6-7% more often than a guy we'd prefer to have starting.


It's easy to not believe what isn't true...Post some stats to prove we did that!

I don't have stats for this. In fact, I don't know that stats for it even exist. I just know it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize that when the line sucks, the TE stays in to protect.

ROFLMAO Jay is that man...YOU have said he is not suited to be a successfull starter now you say this crap...your losing credibility fast here...

My position is that Jay can be a starting QB if we need him to be but that he is better suited to a backup role because we would all like to see improved performance out of the QB position.


I answered the phone it WAS reality...he wants to talk to YOU...
Wants to know what we WON the last 4 years.....

11, 11, 9, and 10 games. I wouldn't trade away a single one of those wins for higher draft picks like it seems you would. We'll get there, though.


And once we get into those playoffs what will happen?
See the stats on Jay vs Playoff teams you had all weekend to work on but refuse to post because you would have to post the stats that show he sucks and you can't bring yourself to do that!

You're the one who says he has the stats but won't post them. I refuse to even compile them since you have them available.

Let's just say that the stats show that Jay is 0-13 against playoff teams, though. That really sucks, and I wish there were more wins. At the same time, it doesn't change the dynamics of this argument. This is about me wanting to retain a known modestly successful QB so the team doesn't fall off a cliff and you wanting to entertain that cliff dive just so you don't have to see Jay Fiedler in a Dolphins uniform.


WRONG ANSWER!!!!!! Going 1-15 makes the team say enough is enough and we get the top overall pick to fix the problem with....
going 10-6 gets players pointing fingers at each other saying if this guy did this and that guy did that we would have won...and all you get to correct the problem is a 20th ranked Pick which YOU claim isn't enough to get a GOOD QB with....

You can get a good QB far later than the 20th pick. My contention is that you can't get a QB who will start off the bat even with the 1st pick. You have to let guys season in today's NFL.

I really pity you if you think going 1-15 is a good thing. That would be the end of this Dolphins team as we know it. This defensive core deserves far better. They deserve a shot at the playoffs, and who knows what can happen when they get that.

Neither peete or Delhomme had failed 4 year straight! And showed they couldn't run the system yet!

:roflmao:

Peete is an old, old man. You'd really rather have him than Jay? If I were you, I would be horrified that he would break a hip.


Jay can't get the team there....hasn't done it in 2 years...

With a more effective offensive scheme, I really do believe that changes. The two years prior with Chan kind of hammer that home, don't they? Isn't it odd that Chan's O took the team to the playoffs with the same scrub QB that Norv's O had?

NO! I asked YOU for the info...either post them or admit you don't want to because you refuse to post the stats that show Jay sucks and can't beat anyone but scrubs!

This is childish -- you said yourself you had them. If your next response does not include these numbers, you won't see another response from me because I will be ignoring you from that point on. You have them, and I have expressed both my desire to see them and my reaction to a hypothetical that is likely far worse than the actual results. I'm not going to waste more of my time than I already am on you by running around and generating statistics.

How stupid are you?

I am obviously dumb enough to keep responding to you. I'm starting to wise up about that, though.


SOS is STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE not how many games out of 1000 an opposing team would win...It is HOW STRONG the teams he played against are!

SOS is the combined record of the teams played. It is in a very real sense how many games out of 1000 the hypothetical consolidated opponent would likely win based on the smaller sample.

IE Jay plays 10 games against .500 teams
Griese plays 10 games against .540 teams...
Griese beat BETTER TEAMS than Jay beat and if he had played 10 games against .500 teams his WIN PCT would probably be HIGHER than it was against the .540 teams...

It would likely be .040 higher. That was the entire basis of my numbers.

You obviously don't have any clue what SOS is or how Win Pct only tells half the story...a typical Jaybot affliction!

Another baseless attack, huh? I'm not going to stand for them. HOW DARE YOU say that I don't get how Win Pct tells only half the story -- I combined SOS and Win Pct to create a truer measure. Do you even stop and realize what you're writing?
 
Is your position seriously that coordinators should be held blameless unless they have ideal talent? While Norv didn't choose the guys he got, it was still his job to make the offense work
Mechanic says your engine is shot and can't be fixed...is it HIS fault it can't be fixed or YOUR fault for giving him such a crappy car to fix?

I think that Jay is a good backup for this year and that he is the starter until AJ or somebody else who is brought in shows us that they're ready to take over.
And square that with your assertion that he can't run the system please?

Jay keeps us in the hunt for the playoffs.
How by throwing INTs to Houston and giving NE 7 more points than they could score off our defense?
How does he do this pray tell?

I didn't blame any player in this manner. I can see where you would think the Norv thing is similar, but I blame Norv because I know he can do better. I know his history in Dallas as an OC.

OH so it's Norv's job to polish a turd....
Put all the whipped creme on a turd pie and when you bite into it, it still tastes like ****! You blame the OC because Jay sucks so much he couldn't succeed, not Jay for sucking in the first place!

Even Peyton Manning missed on 33% of his throws last year
Peyton Manning
566 Atts 68 Poor Throws 36.4% of INC 12.0% of Atts
Jay Fiedler
314 Atts 61 Poor Throws 45.2% of INC 19.4 % of Atts

About a 3rd of Peytons INCs come from poor throws and on only 12% of all atts
About half of Jay's INCs come on poor throws and nearly 20% of all Atts that means 20% of the time Jay doesn't even get the ball NEAR a WR!
Add to that
Peyton 10 INTs 5.3% of INC 1.8 % of ATTs
compared to
Jay 13 INTs 9.6% of INC 4.1% of Atts
Manning has less than HALF the INTs per att than Jay does...All those passes that should have gone to one of our WRs!



11, 11, 9, and 10 games.
Wrong first off Jay didn't win all those games he wasn't even playing for some of them...Second even when he was which game did JAY win that someone else wasn't already winning for us...I can name you all the games Jay cost us all by himself if you like....

You're the one who says he has the stats but won't post them. I refuse to even compile them since you have them available.
Can't bear to tell the truth about Jay can you?
Chicken!

You can get a good QB far later than the 20th pick. My contention is that you can't get a QB who will start off the bat even with the 1st pick. You have to let guys season in today's NFL.
EXACTLY which is why we should cut Jay and draft a QB as high as we can so he WILL be ready next year in case Feeley fails...And if Feeley fails then we also have the opportunity to get his rookie mistakes out of the way by starting him halfway through the season so not only will the youth be GROOMED but EXPERIENCED...You don't want to do any of that...you want to keep Jay and delay that operation as long as possible so you will have a poor excuse to keep Jay yet ANOTHER year!

I really pity you if you think going 1-15 is a good thing. That would be the end of this Dolphins team as we know it
OH yeah sure it would just like it was the end for Dallas when they won 3 SBs right after going one and something! It was just so tragic for them!


Peete is an old, old man. You'd really rather have him than Jay? If I were you, I would be horrified that he would break a hip.
I would rather have YOU as QB than Jay...enough said? I don't know that YOU suck as much as I know Jay sucks!

With a more effective offensive scheme, I really do believe that changes. The two years prior with Chan kind of hammer that home, don't they? Isn't it odd that Chan's O took the team to the playoffs with the same scrub QB that Norv's O had?
Well guess what slappy...We are running the SAME system...
It's Norv's playbook!
And Chan was successful at getting us to the playoffs how long did we last? And how much did Jay score for us?
Total in 3 games? 7 points!
Yeah Jay is going to GET us to the WILDCARD and then we go home because he sucks!
Can't beat playoff teams...you should look it up instead of ducking the stats!

It would likely be .040 higher. That was the entire basis of my numbers.
Right which makes his 3-2 record 4-1...Who has the higher winning percentage then Jay or Griese?
You came out with Jay in YOUR calculation....

But I'll try one last time...

QB A plays 10 games against 4-10 teams and wins them all...
QB B Plays 5 games against 8-8 teams and 5 against 12-4 teams and wins 9 of them....Who is the better QB?
The guy with the 10 wins against scrubs or the guy with the 9 wins against much tougher competition?

I notice you skipped this completely...

I'm not attacking you I'm just tired of you making stuff up like with the Jags and the SOS calcs and blaming everyone in the world but Jay...
It's everyone else's fault BUT Jay's...Norv the OL the WRs next it will be Ricky for taking away all the extra atts Jay should have had to get his numbers up...
No one gets any slack but Jay!

I'm done with you...your hopeless and it is quite obvious after 250 some odd posts that all you REALLY care about is that Jay be on the roster and we don't call the scrub a scrub!
 
I think the record stands for itself here. You have ignored what is being said and called me names quite enough.

Good riddance, Asphyx. Don't even bother responding because you are gong on my ignore list immediately after this is posted.
 
I ignored you?

I have been waiting since friday for you to come up with Jay's stats vs Playoff teams...

I didn't call you ANY names....
Unless you want to count slappy...

You have avoided every question put to you...

Ducked every challenge!
You even avoided my last post to you....Giving up?

I'm not going to reply to you until you post what his record is against playoff teams....

Cause if you duck it then I know your just blowing wind and not willing to have a honest discussion of the facts!

No sense trying to have a conversation with someone who refuses to post the truth about the guy he is defending...

Don't even bother responding because you are gong on my ignore list immediately after this is posted.
Once again you just RUN AWAY....

I'll take this as a win in the argument!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally posted by Asphyx
I ignored you?

I have been waiting since friday for you to come up with Jay's stats vs Playoff teams...

I didn't call you ANY names....
Unless you want to count slappy...

You have avoided every question put to you...

Ducked every challenge!
You even avoided my last post to you....Giving up?

I'm not going to reply to you until you post what his record is against playoff teams....

Cause if you duck it then I know your just blowing wind and not willing to have a honest discussion of the facts!

No sense trying to have a conversation with someone who refuses to post the truth about the guy he is defending...


Once again you just RUN AWAY....

I'll take this as a win in the argument!

Quote :lol:
 
Wow, who could have forseen that this thread would end badly??? :eek:





Well, Jay topics stir up a lot of emotions. :lol:
 
I would have gotten better responses from a wall!

But then again a wall even knows Jay just doesn't deserve to be here anymore!
 
Originally posted by Deus Ex Dolphin
Wow, who could have forseen that this thread would end badly??? :eek:

I shudder to think how we kept on going this long. It's difficult to argue with a brick wall. I regret that I even tried.
 
Originally posted by Asphyx
I would have gotten better responses from a wall!

Okay, it is funny enough that we both feel the same way about the topic that I'm un-ignoring you. I'm still calling an end to this, though. If you think there is actually something I didn't answer that you brought up, re-read this massive thread. I assure you that it's in there. For the past couple of pages worth of posts, we have both been saying the same damn thing almost every time we posted.

I'll give you a hint: my position is complex. You're reading things to contradict each other when they are not intended in that way and are not mutually exclusive. I understand that it is tough to overcome your initial prejudice (I have the same trouble), but there is a way to read what I have written that reconciles the issues you think are present.


But then again a wall even knows Jay just doesn't deserve to be here anymore!

No comment. You know exactly how I feel on this by now, or you probably never will.
 
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If you think there is actually something I didn't answer that you brought up, re-read this massive thread

How about Jay's record and stats vs playoff teams?
Did you answer that? And if you do tell us all how Jay would keeep us in the hunt for a playoff with those numbers

How about how is Norv supposed to make a bad QB look GOOD?
If Jay can't throw a pass then how is Norv supposed to make him do it? Norv TRIED to run a system that Jay could run...
He got blamed for being too conservative because that system Norv came up with was to run ricky and keep Jay from throwing INTs....


Neither of those two questions were ever touched or explained by you!
There is more but it isn't even worth revisiting I would settle for an answer to both of those!

If you can't answer them then please by all means put me back on the ignore list so I won't have to go through this again with you!
 
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