Jimmy James
You sit on a throne of lies!
Originally posted by Asphyx
No it was because Jay was INCAPABLE should NOT have been forced on Norv...you want to change from a SUCCESSFULL system to somthing a SCRUB could do but god forbid we should change the SCRUB who couldn't run ANY NFL system put in front of him!
That SCRUB is by your (intermittant) admission the best guy we had over Norv's two years. If that is the case, then I absolutely expect Norv to adjust the system. He wouldn't have run as much as he did if the RB was Bernie Parmalee, would he?
I am all for changing the "SCRUB" just as soon as we know we have a better solution. I keep saying this over and over again, and yet you still say:
but the truth is you don'treally want to keep Jay as a backup...it is simply a way of trying to sound sane, but in truth you just want Jay around so he can start and say AJ was a failure so we need to keep Jay yet ONe MORE year after this!
Quotes like that just make you sound unstable, man. I have had just about enough of you impugning me in this way. I have no interest in this other than keeping this team in the hunt. This is probably going to be one of the last few years together for a lot of these guys. If you call me a liar or imply that I am one again, I will ignore you.
This is EXACTLY the point! Jay could NOT run ANY system...He SUCKS!
It would seem that you are again contradicted by more than one FO. The Jaguars felt he could run a system, and so did the Dolphins. I still stand by my opinion that he could run the WCO relatively well.
You blame Norv for not being able to make a pile of crap smell like roses instead of blaming the pile of crap for being crap!
I see no reason to blame anybody for failing to get the result I want when I know they have done all they can to get it. I hated seeing those horrid Royals punts, but I didn't blame him for being on the team or for giving each one his all. I'm glad he is gone, but I wouldn't have wanted to just get rid of him for somebody who quite possibly couldn't get the punting/holding duties done as well as he could have. I would want a competition if at all possible. Thankfully, Turk was a known quantity.
No Randy doesn't go out BECAUSE sending him out was worthless! If the QB can't get a ball to him then he might as well block! Why did we RUN so much? Because we couldn't pass..
And he had 49 Rec...I would like to see data that says he didn't go out on routes as much as he stayed in to block!
You make it sound like Norv didn't send him out for passes but that is just WRONG!
He sent him...he was not thrown to!
If Jay couldn't get him the ball, how did he get 49 catches?
I am just frankly shocked that you don't believe we kept the TE in more often than we would have liked to due to the horrid offensive line. I guess it's just easier for you to believe that all the evil in the world comes from #9.
McNabb is a KNOWN GOOD Starter...is AJ?
So Detmer can be a wrose QB than McNabb because you HAVE McNabb who is a damn good QB...
Can you say without a doubt AJ is a DAMN GOOD STARTER?
McNabb you know will NOT be a failure but AJ might..He is an UNKNOWN! It is better to have someone else you don't know is WORSE or will FAIL to backup an UNKNOWN Quantity as starter!
If AJ fails you have NO potential starter you way...My way you DO!
Just another chance to hit success while your way is WELL KNOWN by now that it will fail!
And you still haven't fully addressed why you want a competition for starter here...Is Jay starter material or not?
I argue that it works exactly the other way:
When you have a known starter, you need a guy who can be a band-aid. When you have a guy who is a question mark, you have to have a backup who can start and be successful. Jay is that man, no matter how you personally feel about him. Under him as the starter, this team ended the season with 11, 11, 9, and 10 wins. That is success except by what is apparently your warped definition.
Why is that? Is it because he makes too much to be a BACKUP?
I would argue that it has more to do with the QB controversy he invites and the team's cap space. I'm sure salary is a consideration, just as I'm sure it is with Jay. I wouldn't be quite as opposed to releasing Jay after 6/1 because it might actually make some sort of cap sense at that point. I think it's certainly possible that Jay might take a pay cut if AJ looks good and it seems he will be the backup, though. I would want the team to at least extend that option before cutting him. I would also want to go after an experienced backup like Warner in that situation. Why is that? Because that is my interest in keeping Jay: having a known quantity in the midst of the uncertainty AJ brings.
Ok Follow me...
You way AJ fails...you put in a KNOWN failure...recipie for a loosing season....
You mean like the last four losing seasons?
Asphyx, reality is on the phone for you. Look up our record. If Jay is the starter, we'll see 9-7 as a bare minimum. That is what Jay is capable of delivering. He is a known quantity.
My way AJ Fails...I put in another UNKNOWN Quantity who could be then next Brady or Garcia or Warner...I get SUCCESS!
NO YOU DO NOT You might get that, but you might get Vick going down and Doug Johnson/Kurt Kittner coming in. Don't throw away one of the final Taylor/Thomas/Bowens/Madison/Surtain seasons like that.
Yeah because your only worried about IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION you are NOT concerned with what is best for the team NOW or in the LONG TERM!
What I am concerned about is making a run for the playoffs if that is the team's purpose. If they want to rebuild, I am for that. We don't need to be buying guys like AJ or Boston if that is the motive, though. The team has chosen a course, and I want to see them stay on that course rather than going on some insane hunt for the next Tom Brady at the expense of a year.
Answer me this....
Which is better for the team?
Going 10-6 and missing the playoffs?
OR
Going 1-15 and missing the playoffs?
Which is better for the TEAM?
And tell me why!
Neither outcome is good for the team. I would argue that 10-6 is the better of the two because it wouldn't cause the sort of cancer that rips a good team apart like a 1-15 season would.
Well you said Jay wasn't starter material so why isn't feeley being named starter? Why isn't he practicing with the starters?
YOU DO NOT REPLACE A 4 YEAR STARTER WITH A PLAYER THAT HAS 5 GAMES EXPERIENCE BECAUSE DOING SO SHOWS DISRESPECT TO THE ESSENCE OF WHAT A STARTER IS
What has to happen is the sort of competition that the Dolphins have set up. Otherwise, you cause chaos in the team because every starter has to constantly watch his back every time a youngster is added. You must give a starter a chance to compete for his job at a minimum in this situation.
How can you INSTALL a new guy when you have some guy who is deemed NOT CAPABLE of being starter taking half the snaps away?
Ask the Panthers. You tell me how that isn't like Peete/Delhomme. I have more faith in AJ than I did in Jake (because McNabb is a harder guy to displace than Brooks), but I think the situation is otherwise pretty much similar. Where did the Panthers get last year?
What are you trying to keep stable?
I am trying to keep the streak of winning seasons alive. I'm also trying to keep the team alive for the playoffs. If Jay can get the team there, it is conceivable that AJ could come in late in the season and lead the team the rest of the way. It is also not impossible that Jay could pull a Trent Dilfer and end up with a ring as a starting QB. Anybody who says otherwise is just blinded by Jay hatred.
At least Sage deserves a shot...one he has never gotten...why should he get dumped BEFORE we know he sucks and Jay should stay TWO YEARS after we figured out he DID suck?
If our coaching staff blows so badly that you don't trust them to correctly evaluate Sage's talent as being less than Jay's, everybody from Wayne down needs to go before this team is going anywhere. This proposition is ludicrious.
The part you quoted was in reference to why didn't I post Jay's record vs playoff teams not win% and SOS....I'm still waiting to see your results on that question!
Even though I'm curious about this, I WILL NOT compile this information since you say you know what it is. I again call for you to post it.
I did explain in a seperate post why your calculations were wrong on Win%, Not because the numbers you used were wrong but because you didn't find a common denominator to make an accurate comparison...You need to find a common denominator in either SOS or Win Pct before you can say which one had the edge in the other...
Let's try this again:
Win% is the number of games out of 1000 that the QB would win.
SOS is the number of games out of 1000 that the opposing team would win.
We're just subtracting wins here. It is as legitimate as it comes. Jay would have 67 more wins than Brian against teams that have 32 fewer wins over that 1000 games. That makes 35 net wins of difference. Why is this conceptually so difficult for you?
ANSWER: The play was there I Just didn't get the job done!
I'm sure you would love that answer because it would just help spur on the riot against Jay that has been on the verge of happening ever since he came on. Why not have Jay give out his home address and when the police aren't generally patrolling his neighborhood, too?
No you took TWO DIFFERENT WinPctg based on TWO DIFFERENT SOS' ...If Jay played the SAME SOS that Griese had played he would most probably have a WORSE winning PCT!
The truth of the matter is that the numbers don't tell us anything of this nature. We would only know how Jay would have done against the Titans if Jay had played against the Titans. Same goes for the Patriots and Brian. Numbers are just easy to compare so they make a nice shorthand.