Retooling The Offense

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PhinsAllDay, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. PhinsAllDay

    PhinsAllDay Active Member

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    This offense is horrible and i cant see how adding Tannehill to it next year. With the possible chance of us not winning another game and getting a high draft pick , should we draft a QB if a top prospect is available at our pick ? TE has to be addressed because the JT is not cutting it . I think Landry is gone next season and Devante Parker is in his 3rd season and still hasnt looked like a top pick. The O Line has to be redone because its just awful. How should the Dolphins go about retooling the offense ?
     
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  2. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    No chance of a high round QB. Everything else, maybe
     
  3. GreenMts

    GreenMts Seasoned Veteran

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    We need to fix the O-line and add a real tight end. I wouldn't focus anywhere else on that side of the ball (obviously need to resolve Landry). With decent line play and RT back at the helm what we have can and will work well enough.
     
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  4. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    It's pretty complicated now. I don't think people realize just how far the Ajayi "trade" set us back. So, we would have at least gotten a 4th for Ajayi if we had let him leave when he becomes a free agent. So, we literally gained nothing by getting rid of him, except the message that Gase sent that demoralized the team.

    Now, we pretty confidently know we are not keeping Ju'Wuan James, so good news, his salary is off the books; but bad news, we need a RT. Jesse Davis has the job until further notice. We definitely know we can't throw money after Bushrod after this fiasco of a season. So, that's our entire right side of the OL to be replaced--two so far. Looking hard at Pouncey, who we either keep and pay through the nose, or cut and pay through the other end ... bad contracts always gonna bite ya there. So, that's maybe 3. Now we have the injured journeyman Ted Larsen ... I have an open mind, but thus far I'm not convinced. I'm guessing that one of Larsen and Pouncey will be replaced, but not sure which one honestly. So that's definitely 3. Tunsil likely stays, although we've been disappointed with him.

    Fasano has been as good as advertised, but unfortunately that's been almost exclusively as a blocking TE. We still need a chess piece who can pass protect, run block, and be a seam threat and a big red zone target. That's 4. We probably need to replace Landry, and my preference would be to keep him, but if we must move on from him, I'd replace him with another chess piece TE. Yeah, that's TWO TE's, but I think we have the WR corps to do that and still have flexibility. So, that's 5. Oh yeah, and we need to replace Ajayi, because Williams is a 3rd down back, Drake is an injury-prone (knocking on wood that I'm wrong!) speed back. So, that's 6.

    Six starters on offense alone .... assuming Tannehill comes back healthy.

    On Defense Wake continues to defy Father Time, but remember, Father Time is still undefeated ... so it's a big gamble every year. Hayes will be what, 33? AWOLrence Timmons will be old if he returns, as will Reshad Jones, so that's 4 definite starters who are old in the middle of a defense rebuild that isn't finished yet. Sure, we're doing well with Tankersley, X Howard (well he hasn't been to great this year, but he's talented), Lippett (OK for a 3rd boundary CB), McMillan (projection, but I have faith), and Harris (shown flashes).

    Assume we bring in 3 FA's and get rid of Ju'Wuan James, Julius Thomas, and (it pains me to say it ... but also ...) Jarvis Landry on offense. Yeah, even with draft picks, we can't fully rebuild this next offseason. Too much need.
     
  5. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    This offseason has to be about fixing the offensive line above all else. Gase will never have a chance to succeed as a head coach with this unit and, more specifically, Miami won't contend unless it's upgraded. I'd spend at least one premium pick on the offensive line and get a sure thing starter in free agency. I'd let Asiata play the rest of the year to see if he might be the answer at one guard spot. If so, that would be huge.

    I think the 10-6 playoff run last year set the expectations really high, but the truth is this team doesn't have a strong foundation. Some veterans have slipped a bit this year as well. Wake is still a good player, but he's not making as many game changing plays. The Dolphins have no one that steps up when Suh is double-teamed and that is a shame and a waste of his talent.

    I keep saying this should be a foundation draft coming up for Miami. The Dolphins are honestly right up there with the worst teams in the league and it's because the team is not winning in the trenches.

    Prioritize getting a difference maker on the defensive line and building the offensive line. All other needs can wait, unless the team gets lucky with middle to late round picks.
     
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  6. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    He really hasn't been, actually. I'd bring him back at league minimum salary only because our TE room is a disaster and at least he'll do his job, even if he's not doing it well.
     
  7. Ray R

    Ray R Well-Known Member

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    I believe you design a new offensive line starting with the center. Centers are the quarterback of the offensive line. They are usually in charge of checking that the line assignments are understood and inplace after a play has been called. I saw Paul Brown use this approach when he started the Bengals franchise, and then again a few years latter I saw Forrest Greg do the same thing when he became the Bengals coach. Two years after that they were in the Superbowl. Clearly single position replacements has not worked for us; probably because this offensive line has been a shambles for years.

    Once you have a center, you select a tackle based on whichever hand the QB throws with - left tackle for right handed QB's or a right tackle for left handed QB's. After that you replace your remaining tackles and guards based on the best available lineman candidate and how they compare to the current player we have on the team at that position. There is no point in drafting a player who isn't potentially an equal or better replacement just because you are re-establishing most of your personnel. This is not quite a cut and dried approach, but it is a method that should yield the best offensive line you can get based on the talent of the available players, using either draftees, free agents or someone currently playing on the team.

    I feel it will take two years to establish a new offensive line because you usually can't get all the linemen you want at the skill levels you need in a single year. It makes sense to replace an existing offensive line over two years in order to allow the new players to work with an established group their first year, which allows the second years new players to step into a working group. This should also minimize the drop off in coordination and execution that you would expect to experience when changing the whole line all at once.

    This approach would use at least the first 3 draft positions of 2018 on the offensive line. The selections for the remainder of the draft should be best player available compared to who we have and the degree of need for a given positions replacement. The second year would also require 2 to 3 high draft choices for the offensive line. After that we will probably need to replace the backups. We still have a lot of holes to fill so using a prime part of the draft for just one side of the ball needs to be limited in order to allow us to take advantage of the strength of the draft instead of grabbing whoever is available just to fill a hole. Otherwise we will be forever chasing our tail to fill holes rather then using the draft to build depth everywhere which would eventually provide our future starters.

    I am more interested in how we choose who we draft rather than who it is we draft. I will be interested in how we use free agency in conjunction with the draft to help fill some of our holes. I will also be interested in seeing how the new players are used: will they be starters or redshirted? I am not as jaded about the front office as many on this board are. I felt we had a good draft last year and expect that we will have a successful draft next year. I have no expectations as to the quality of the players in this draft, I only hope we can make the best out of what is available.

    Every team has its ups and downs but lets face it, this year was a perfect storm of absurd personnel events, injuries and weather dragging down a lot of initial hope I had for a great year. Makes me think of the sinking of the Edward Fitzgerald. I refuse to let this blind me to the potential we have in making improvement to the team and fully expect to see a competitive team next year. Possibly even this year although our injury situation will probably keep us out of any contention for a playoff berth.
     
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  8. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think we will keep Landry.
     
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  9. finfan41

    finfan41 Rookie Finheaven VIP

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    My thing is if we are picking top 7 and one of the top DE is sitting there you have to take him, wake will be older, and we need more youth there, and I am not taking a guard that high
     
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  10. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    In the offseason we will need to acquire starters at TE, RB, LG, RG, and C.

    Oh, and the defense gets no pressure on the QB and we are atrocious against the pass.

    What a mess.
     
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  11. DuderinoN703

    DuderinoN703 We? What the **** we? Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Fix the OL. Get an OL coach who doesn't do speed and crack. Get a TE who can do something. Get a real running back and compliment him with Drake/Williams. Get Tannehill healthy while grooming a rookie who will take over down the line.
     
  12. Ray R

    Ray R Well-Known Member

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    A little more succinct than my post, but yes.
     
  13. matt11390

    matt11390 Starter

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    All good thoughts. IMO the roster needs a major rebuild. The OL is the biggest key and it will take a couple of years if they build through the draft. They shouldn't try to replace 4 starters in one season. Specifically target 2 positions like RG and LT and keep Pouncey and Davis for one more season. By the way I much preferred Tunsil at LG instead of LT. He played better and seems to be much more effective in small space work. His punch and body frame fits the guard position better. Then in 2019 I would draft a C and RT (if Davis isn't cutting it). The next two drafts I would focus on OL and the front 7 on defense.
     
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  14. TannDaMan17

    TannDaMan17 Well-Known Member

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    All that matters after this disaster of a season.
     
  15. matt11390

    matt11390 Starter

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    You used way too much common sense. You made sound simple.
     
  16. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    They need to make O-Guard top priority in FA (I am not talking more 2nd or 3rd rate, last year of their career either), and depending on how the draft falls (Where Miami Picks...who will be declaring early...chances of someone special falling if Miami does not pick in the top ten), Miami needs to get a quality TE that can be a redzone nightmare for team.

    AS for Tannehill, if he looks on schedule, and able to come back, you get a quality QB that can be a back up, and maybe in the future a starter in the later rounds, but if Tannehill's return looks iffy, then you may need to try and get a QB in the 1st or 2nd at worst.

    You will needs to also get another guard or Center (depending if Pouncey will restructure his contract) in the 3rd or 4th.

    Come out of FA with at least one quality Guard that can start right away, and come out of the draft with at least a QB (Backup or possible Starter depending Tannehill), a top or the top TE candidate in this draft, and another quality interior linemen that can start right away...after that Miami can try and find more help at positions like FS, DE, and LB.
     
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  17. Dolph N.Fan

    Dolph N.Fan A True Fan

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    TE Gary Barnidge is still a FA. I don’t understand why Cleveland cut him unless it was for money issues. Maybe Miami should sign him for a year or 2 until they can finally find a TE in the draft after dealing with other holes that need fixed.
     
  18. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    As others have said, I think it's reasonable to think one of Brendel, Larsen, Asiata, Smith can fill one of the needs. As for FAs, I don't think Miami NEEDS an elite OG. Get a top third OG and that will solve a lot of problems. TE and a fast LB would help a lot. THere are a number of positions that could use upgrades, but I see few that fall to crisis mode.
     
  19. vcip

    vcip Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Sign
    TE Trey Burton
    RB Alfred Morris
    WR Jordan Matthews (to replace Landry if too much money)

    Obviously redo OL as needed
     
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  20. montequi

    montequi Middle Timer

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    We have to start in the middle of the O-Line, at Center. In recent memory, the best this line has played overall was when we brought back Samson Satelle to play Center and put Pouncey at Guard. Playing Center requires more than athletic ability...it requires smarts (to be in-sync with the QB, to call the right blocking schemes)...and Pouncey just doesn't have that...he never has. In our history, we've been blessed with 2 of the best Centers ALL-TIME (Langer and Stephenson). Very few NFL teams can claim something like that. Good teams are built from the middle-out (QB, Center, MLB), but we've spent more time and money on the outside (LT, WR, DE) than the core of our team. To me, that's one of the biggest flaws.
     
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  21. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    The problem with fixing the offense is that the defense needs help too and we don't have a lot of money under the cap and only one extra pick in the 7th round. I know we have two picks in round 4 but none in round 5 and with t-dumb and Grier in charge we can't expect much. We gotta hope that Tannehill comes back 100% healthy AND doesn't get hurt again and RM and Lippett comes back 100% healthy too but we still need help at
    DE,TE,RB, all over the o-line and we need a young QB to groom

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  22. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Though what you say about the O-line makes sense, I am tired of things happening to yet again give us an O-line that is not ready for prime time, I really think a good O-line miraculously fixes most ills on the offense, so overkill or not, I do hope to get a top Guard in FA.

    We absolutely need to get a TE that can be relied on to do his job, not fail when needed, and another LB would help a lot...preferably a LB that is good in coverage.
     
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  23. vcip

    vcip Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    lets see more of Fede the rest of season
     
  24. Snoop

    Snoop A True Fan

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    Draft a QB in the 1st, trade Tannehill for two 2nds (or a 1st if anyone is desperate enough to offer it), use the extra picks to address the OL and sign a guard in free agency with all the money you save from removing Tannehill's contact. If Landry's asking for too much you tag and trade him. We're gonna need all the picks we can get, we need a QB of the future, multiple OL, another RB, a TE, likely WR if Landry is moved, might need a new RT if they decide JuWan James isn't worth $9.3 million, I mean this joke of an offense needs to be completely blown up.

    This is all a lot more likely to happen with a new leader in the front office so hopefully after we finish 4-12 or 5-11 with a 2-3 more blowouts along the way Ross decides to boot Tannenbaum out of here.
     
  25. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    IMHO, he 's definitely been the best blocking TE we've had since .... well since he left. He has been far better than any other blocking TE we've had. But that's his role now, strictly blocking. He's no longer a pass catching threat unless he's uncovered.
     
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  26. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    Not sure whether it was true or not, but I heard from a friend that he may have concussion issues.
     
  27. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    My question is ... who is scouting and picking this guard? Our track record is very consistently bad. I'm all for putting some resources into getting the guard position right, because every good run game starts with talented guards. Pass protection is all about tackles, and a center definitely helps from an organization standpoint ... but at the end of the day, there are very few centers that can generate offensive push like most guards. Those guys are highly valued if they can do that and organize the OL at the line of scrimmage.

    Scouts are kinda like the hidden gems of an organization. They never get credit for personnel hits or misses, but they are almost always the reasons the GM's select guys. I've noticed a few things about our scouts.

    1. They don't seem to put enough weight on character ... we keep adding players who screw up.
    2. They're now good at scouting WR's, from Rishard Mathews to Jarvis Landry to Kenny Stills (FA) and Jakeem Grant (late pick), they've made some good recommendations.
    3. They're good at spotting DL talent. Soliai (mid round draft pick), Starks (mid level FA), Vernon (developmental draft pick), Suh (high level FA), Godcheaux (late draft pick). Sure, there have been misses too, but we're finding talent.
    4. They're good at spotting CB's for this system. Tankersley was a hit. Howard has been mixed but shows promise. Lippett was a gamble that is developing (when he heals up). Maxwell played some good games while he was here too.
    5. Theyr'e pretty decent at picking RB's. Miller, Ajayi, Williams, Drake.
    6. They don't value TE's. Clay and Sims were mid to late round picks, Julius Thomas and Fasano were cheap FA acquisitions, we're shopping in the B and C pile.
    7. They're horrible at identifying OL talent. Sure, they spot all-everything guys like Jake Long and Laremy Tunsil, and twins of proven players like Pouncey, but they overpay for guys like Albert and Pouncey, and overdraft guys like James, and consistently spend 3rd round picks on guys who suck. We spent a 3rd rounder on Tankersley this year ... and it worked out soooooo much better!

    I'm not saying our scouts are garbage. But I'm saying get someone else to evaluate OL. Ross has the money, find some good talent scouts. Then let the new, better scouts pick some new OL.
     
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  28. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    Sign Kirk Cousins and trade Tannehill for picks.

    There is a golden opportunity here to get one of the league's best QBs in free agency, while garnering more high draft picks by trading the current one. That won't happen often.

    Imagine coming out of the offseason with a better starting QB, as well as a greater than normal number of high draft picks who can possibly address other areas of need. Talk about improving the team quickly.
     
  29. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

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    Gase is married to Tannehill and Cutler. How does this turn out? The OL either needs a stud coach or the players are just not that good. That falls on the GM. Tunsil was a steal, and maybe he plays lights out on another team (Like a lot of players do when they leave) but our line coach needs to be highly thought of.

    I miss Clay, the guy was a star. With him catching and Fasano blocking, it's awesome.

    Asiata needs to be ready next year to start.

    One day we will go through the process of drafting a team and coaching them to win (Green Bay). Start young, make trades, and get the line up. Trade Suh for some picks. For example just get a young LB corp. McMillan and two other high picks. Just let these guys battle together and in a couple of years they'll gel. Same goes for offensive units.

    The part on offense that I stll can't believe is that the 2 guys who gave so much heart to the team are going to be gone. Ajayi is already out, and Landry isn't coming back. Face it. If we wanted to keep him, he'd be here. Miami is playing the game where if Landry has a bad season, they can get him for the cheap. Unfortunately other teams with need of his services will not see it that way *See Olivier Vernon.
     
  30. Mrmeeseeks

    Mrmeeseeks Active Member

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    It's all irrelevant without coaches that can put together a game plan and cultivate talent. With or without Tannehill, the team will tread water with the current staff.
     
  31. Namor

    Namor Pro Bowler Finheaven VIP

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    Re-tool the front office first!!!!!!
     
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  32. Fin Fan in Cali

    Fin Fan in Cali Joanne Shaw Taylor Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    Good morning brother. I believe you will need to look at RB, and WR at some time in the draft, UDFA, and or FA.
     
  33. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I don't know, but I go and find the guy who recommended UDFAs Eric Smith and Jesse Davis and I tell him he's in charge of picking OL from now on.
     
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  34. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    I agree with Digital and whoever else thinks its more than a one year rebuild. I mean you don’t have a ton of cap space and you have needs all over the offense and defense.

    We already know you will not hit on all of FA and draft picks - not possible- you would almost need to hit on them all to fix this team in 2018.

    Some of the younger OL are going to get a shot, I can’t see them usuing three picks on the OL.
     
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  35. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    Andrew Norwell is your top guard
    but will cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    and I find it hard to believe that the way we've been valuing
    guards with bargain basement has-beens we'd spend the cash needed to
    sign a top free agent guard
     
  36. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think this could be a one year rebuild if we do it right. However, we are the Dolphins. We will not do it right.

    But there are pieces to work with and things you can do here.

    Restructure Tannehill, cut Pouncey, cut Thomas, make other moves that will net you some cap space, and then pay Jarvis Landry. Evaluate how much cap space you have left over after signing Jarvis Landry and then look cheap FA pieces on the OL, at LB, and at RB. Prioritize those positions and DE in the draft.

    Also, at tight end, I think it's time for this organization to take a page out of the Steelers' playbook and if we can't find a damn mismatch player, just spend a mid round draft pick on one of those 6'6" cornfed blue collar boys that can block his *** off and catch the football as a huge target. A Heath Miller or Jesse James type of player.
     
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  37. dirkey

    dirkey FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Hmm ... as mentioned above though, we know we won't hit on all FAs or draft picks. In fact, isn't it basically 50/50 across the league, with regard to hits on both those spots?

    And then, the amount of needs we have (all my own opinion obviously, others have their own opinions)
    LG, C, RG, RT (OK, hopefully Asiata, Smith take a couple of those spots, maybe even Brendel too? That'd be the ideal world)
    RB, TE

    On D:
    LBs (across the board in my opinion)
    DE
    Safety

    That's a lot of holes to fill in one offseason!
     
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  38. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    You're right that free agency and the draft won't be enough so what we need is for several players that are already on the team to take a step forward or two in 2018

    We need Tannehill back healthy of course
    Davis
    Asiata
    Young
    Brendel

    we need two of those 4 guys to become at least solid starters. 3 would be great
    LT-Tunsil
    LG-?
    C-Brendel
    RG-Asiata
    RT-Davis

    If those 3 could start there then you only need a LG in free agency or the draft and you'd save money but getting rid of Pouncey, James and Bushrod

    If Landry leave then Carroo and Scott need to get a chance

    We do need a RB and a TE. Maybe a RB in free agency and draft the TE

    On defense we have RM coming back
    It'd be great if Anthony could be a solid starting LB for us. He looks stronger and faster than Kiko for sure. That'd only leave one LB spot and Timmons could start there and draft a LB to groom

    Harris has to take a big big step next year at DE
    I believe with Suh and the 3 young guys we're good at DT, specially since Phillips has played better this year and DG has been a nice surprise

    We still need another DE tho

    And last but not least we need Howard, Tank AND Lippett to take the next step

    What I'm saying here is that we do have some players already here that just need a chance to play and show what they can do. If most of the stuff I just mention happens then we'd not be that far as long as we draft well but those young guys have to make great progress first

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  39. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Danny, I think I'd sooner pencil in Larsen as part of the solution than Asiata. Larsen is not a great player, and was bad at run blocking on Sunday, but his pass protection was adequate. I think you can pencil him in as the starting LG, and even if you don't feel good about it, you know he is not Dallas Thomas over there. We have not seen Asiata at all, and at this point there's no way we can assume that he's going to step in and be good.
     
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  40. dirkey

    dirkey FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Isn't this kinda what we do every year? Fool ourselves into thinking there's so much talent etc. Then every year we end up disappointed as we realise players aren't half as good as we thought?
     

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