Rick Spielman and Jeff Ireland's post-Dolphins success.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Jerrysanders, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:49 AM.

  1. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-dolphins-kelly-column-20171206-story.html

    It’s probably fair to say being a general manager was too overwhelming for Ireland because of all the politics involved with that position. Now he’s back where he’s comfortable, evaluating college talent and engineering the team’s offseason strategy.

    Both Spielman and Ireland’s had power struggles in Miami that damaged their working relationships. But they’ve clearly grown from those battles considering their second acts serve as proof there’s light at the end of the tunnel if you’re remain patient and stay true to who you are, and what you believe.

    It doesn’t change what happen with the Dolphins. Neither needed to be in Miami a second longer than they were. But seeing them thrive somewhere else should provide us with an important lesson.

    The educational component can’t be overlooked in any of these management positions, whether you’re a general manager like Chris Grier, or a head coach like Adam Gase.
     
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  2. TheWozz

    TheWozz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Spielman never had a fair shake here. Wannstedt called the shots and drove the team into the ground.
     
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  3. Tiko377

    Tiko377 A True Fan

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    Spielman is doing a extremely good job. Ireland can kick rocks.
     
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  4. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

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    I remember when Ireland passed on Earl Thomas, a future All Pro at a position of need, so he could trade down for Jared Odrick and Koa Misi. What an eye for talent that guy had. And who can forget 2013. But it was the politics that did him in.

    Good times!
     
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  5. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    The amount of talent he has assembled in Minnesota is unreal.
     
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  6. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I remember thinking at the time that Speilman deserved more than one off season to show what he could do with this roster. As for jeff, not a great comparison, because he's not the GM down there.
     
  7. Tiko377

    Tiko377 A True Fan

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    Zimmer is also a excellent coach...Ireland passed on him to get McCoy OR Philbin....kind of full circle.
     
  8. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    Ireland was a general manager with the Ddolphins and he did horrible,;Ireland is now an assistant gm and college scouting director and has been very successful thats why the point about politics was made.
     
  9. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

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    Yes, and my point is that his talent evaluations were horrible while he was here. It wasn't just politics. Both his drafting and his free agent acquisitions doomed the team.
     
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  10. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    Yea and now his talent evaluations have been great in New Orleans, why is that ? In Miami he was a GM-which entails a lot more than just talent evaluation, now he's a scouting director and he's been one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL; thats the point the author was making; IDK if thats the reason for his newfound success but I understand how the author came to that conclusion.
     
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  11. dolfan91

    dolfan91 Starter Donator

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    Spielman is the guy who they blew it on. He’s been nothing short of fantastic in Minnesota. Ireland is back to basics as a scout. He did well in that role in Dallas. He’s just not GM material. Perhaps in NO he’s learned how to be better. But I wouldn’t count on it, mainly because of his serious lack of people skills. Spielman has been fantastic and wish him all the best. Coughlin although never in Miami is another guy I’d have liked running things.
     
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  12. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

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    He was basically in charge for one year. The year Wannstedt quit. But he was responsible for the awful trade with Philly for their 3rd string QB AJ Feeley in which he gave up a 2nd round pick and also the panic move to get Gordon the 3rd string RB of the Rams when Ricky Williams quit which cost us a 3rd round pick.

    His early years in Minnesota were bad too...it all changed when they hired Zimmer. He's had some 1st round stinkers though, Christian Ponder, Sharrif Floyd, Cordarrelle Patterson, Teddy Bridgewater, Laquon Treadwell, TJ Clemmings. His saving grace is that he's drafted some studs too. Stefon Diggs, Eric Kendricks (if only they were picking after us in that draft...2 spots ahead of us), Xavier Rhodes, Matt Kalil (now with the Panthers), Harrison Smith, Kyle Rudolph, Anthony Barr, Dalvin Cook and Pat Elfein.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 1:29 PM
  13. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    You mean the guy who fleeced the rams for Lamar Gordon?
     
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  14. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    Seems like every time Minnesota loses a key player, they've got another quality starting caliber player to fill in. Spielman has done an excellent job building a Super Bowl caliber defense and a competent offense.

    They're gonna be a lot of fun to watch with Bridgewater, Dalvin Cook, and two 1,000 yard receivers next season. That plus the best defense in the NFL.....
     
  15. TheWozz

    TheWozz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Maybe I'm wrong but I always was under the impression that Spielman was given a mandate by Wannstedt to get a QB and a replacement back...and that Spielman was backed into a corner.
     
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  16. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You don't know who or what he's recommending, and how much the actual GM in NO and Sean Peyton are agreeing or disagreeing with his assistant GM choices. It's hardly an apple to apples much less apples to oranges comparison to his choices while he was the GM of the dolphins.

    Spielman is a much better example of success in the same position with a different organization having more success doing there was he wasn't given a chance to do here. Patience with Spielman might well have been rewarded, were as patience with Ireland was proving to be a recipe for failure.
     
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  17. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    is his percentage of success or failure with the vikings in line with other successful franchises?
     
  18. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    That Rick Spielman tenure was the single most unnerving and embarrassing period in franchise history from a value standout. Far worse than Ireland in that regard. The most incompetent poker player in the world wouldn't panic and give up that 4th round pick to move ahead of the Vikings in the first round. I nearly drove off the road between Palm Springs and San Diego when those details were announced on ESPN radio.

    Lamar Gordon should be the eternal example of what not to do during troubled times. Then as now you could find running backs of that caliber down the draft if not on the streets. There was also the Ogunleye trade, which was only favorable in comparison to anything else Spielman managed.

    After the A.J. Feeley move, Spielman actually bragged that prior to the decision he watched every snap Feeley had taken in the league. That screams you have no idea what you are doing. You are essentially trying to talk yourself into something. There are vital characteristics and tendencies at quarterback and every other position that show early and often. You don't need to watch every play or even a majority of plays. It should be big picture scope and logic. Feeley was seldom a starter at Oregon and was backup to Joey Harrington as a senior, despite being the starter a year earlier. Dating to the Fiedler move and other than Culpepper/Brees we've generally pursued quarterbacks whose resume suggested middle of the road starter at best. No reason to be surprised at any of it.
     
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  19. gunn34

    gunn34 Pro Bowler

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    I've said this before that Ireland wasn't as bad as some on this site say. He always drafted guys with high floors who would be good (not great) players. He definitely did what he was uncomfortable doing when he drafted guys with "potentially" high ceilings in 2013. A guy like Jordan was a high reward/high risk player that he usually stayed away from and caught the wrath of the fan base for it. When he did do it, the players ended up being bust. That was the end of his ride in Miami.
     
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  20. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    Oh, this is one of those 2 out of 100 so-called "successes" that we should have had, gave up on too early and should have kept threads. It's been awhile and also lets see if the OP is going to make a thread of the 98 others that we rightly walked away from.
     
  21. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    In the real world those talent evaluations rely a LOT on an influential HC. Thus, in Miami it was not difficult to pay little heed to the HC. Try that in NO. Yup, that's what I thought, a good HC can judge talent and be a BIG help in the draft. Same is true of NYJ, Tbaum ignored Rex at his peril. I'm not arguing Baum is a good talent evaluator, but blaming him for all the NYJ draft picks is ignoring the elephant in the room. Anyway, Spielman, Ireland, Baum, Zimmer . . . always helped by a HC with an eye for talent. I believe there was a report of of Ireland asking Philbin of his draft targets/priorities and Philbin's response was similar to 'not my job.'
     
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  22. Mrmeeseeks

    Mrmeeseeks Active Member

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    Spielman was bailed out by the Zimmer hire. Throwing a 1st and 4th at Sam Bradford was a garbage move unless you have a coach that could win with Case Keenum.
     
  23. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    Did omar actually said that ireland had only ONE bad draft? He's delusional if that's what he thinks. I don't care what he's doing now but he totally sucked when he was here and BTW, omar sucks too

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  24. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

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    You may be right about the RB but not the QB. Wannstedt hated Feeley, didn't even want to play him but when we that season 0fer (think we were 0-7 when Wannstedt quit) he played him to try and get a spark but Feeley and Fiedler were in and out of the lineup. I remember Fiedler starting, then Feeley staring then he went back to Fiedler. It was a bad situation. And Gordon was never even an adequate backup.
     
  25. TheWozz

    TheWozz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    It was definitely ugly...the cliff that we fell off of as a franchise...and still trying to climb back
     
  26. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

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    I've always blamed Wannstedt for starting the decline. He killed this franchise. Some of the worst personnel decisions ever. I know a lot of people wanted him to take Drew Brees the year we took Jamar Fletcher but I wanted Reggie Wayne in that draft. There was all of the picks we gave up to either move up in the draft or trade for players (AJ Feeley and Lamar Gordon are two mentioned in this thread but we also gave up two 1st rounders for Ricky Williams and a bunch of other picks in his 4 drafts), there was some awful picks in the draft like Fletcher, Eddie Moore, Todd Wade, Ben Kelly, Morlon Greenwood, Seth McKinney, Wade Smith, Taylor Whitley...all those guys taken in the first 3 rounds of his 4 drafts...including Chris Chambers and Travis Minor...Minor actually didn't do much either but at least he got on the field.

    Out of Wannstedt's 29 draft picks the only ones that did anything were Donald Lee, Yeremiah Bell, Randy McMichael, Chris Chambers, and Arturo Freeman. Those were his best picks....5 out of 29.
     
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  27. TheWozz

    TheWozz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Yep, I place the blame on Wannstedt for everything going to hell and can't forgive Jimmy Johnson for pushing him on Huizenga. To this day, I see Wannstedt on the college football programs and get pissed.
     
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  28. Jay131866

    Jay131866 Scout Team

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    I was one of the very few on here that thought Ireland was OK, not great but not bad like most feel he was. I think the bigger issue was coaching, and also switching from player types he liked to players Philbin liked (basically pussies who wouldn't challenge his authority, and were more finesse). Most of the players we got rid of went on to have successful careers on other teams with better coaching. I think he went all in that last year bc he knew they were all on the hot seat with the Dion Jordan thing, that was never his style before then. He also rarely lost out on any trade value wise which is something Tannenbaum is AWFUL at, and hated giving away picks.

    I might go out on a limb and even say I'd rather have Ireland here than Tannenbaum/Grier, especially now that we have a decent coach and QB.
     
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  29. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Exactly. There is a lot of revisionist history. Spielman has one of the worst performances as a Dolphin GM, and that's saying something. His trades that year were worse than Tannenbaum. You didn't even mention the trade where he traded up ONE SPOT with Minnesota to draft Vernon Carey because the Patriots hinted they might move up for him... Instead, the Patriots stayed where they were and drafted Vince freaking Wilfork. He got completely hosed in every trade and didn't draft any good players whatsoever.

    I think he was largely helped in Minnesota by his no-brainer first pick Adrian Peterson. Without that pick I think his career would have gone much differently. That one pick covered for a lot of his other failures. And he has been in a much easier division than the Dolphins have been in...
     
  30. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    And yet I remember defending him when some were calling him a loser and hot garbage.
    I always felt that Wannstadt pressured him in to making some those panic trades the year RW was suspended/retired.
    There were ecstatic to see him gone
     
  31. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    Omar is an idiot.
     
  32. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    Smh at Philbin.
     
  33. JEDIJ007

    JEDIJ007 It's a trap! Finheaven VIP

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    i was up in arms about that. you can look in this board where i thought that was the 2nd dumbest thing he ever did that year. could have had earl or dez.
     
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  34. Kingdom Come

    Kingdom Come Well-Known Member

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    Ireland is a completely worthless piece of shizer.
    Giving Ireland credit for New Orleans having a good year is like giving the bat boy credit for Stanton's home runs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2017 at 6:02 AM
  35. Zounds

    Zounds CPA4LYFE Donator

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    The only people that have power struggles are the people who suck at what they do. Spielman may have assembled a semi-talented roster in Minn (I give more credit to their HC), but he flat out sucked as our GM. Ireland clashed with people because he made bad choices. If the guy was a genius at what he did, then people wouldn't have clashed with him.
     
  36. Chuck-182

    Chuck-182 Well-Known Member

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    To this day, I'm still extremely bitter about passing up Thomas and trading down for Odrick.
     
  37. TKAllDay

    TKAllDay Seasoned Veteran Donator

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    I am still mad Hickey was railroaded. He was a true professional.
     
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  38. maralieus

    maralieus Lets get those balls deep!!

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    Ireland imo only did one thing well when he was with us and that was play hardball on other teams. He did a great job of getting teams to bend over the barrel. Too bad it was always on bad ideas.
     
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  39. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Spielman and Hickey didn't get fair shots. Ireland has more than enough opportunity and dug his own grave. Both he and TBum left messes in their wake and were lucky to have turned their chickenshit into chicken salad. I suspect that if or when the Fins front office gets disbanded neither bozo will ever see close to the same level job each had lucked into. Hindsight is also 20/20 but it looks like Spielman is far and away the cream of our GM crop.
     
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  40. randomname

    randomname A True Fan

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    And we replaced him with Tannenbaum, a guy who easily takes the #1 worst GM ever spot from a long list of failed GMs.
     

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