Rick Spielman and Jeff Ireland's post-Dolphins success.

[Wildbill3]

Yea and now his talent evaluations have been great in New Orleans, why is that ? In Miami he was a GM-which entails a lot more than just talent evaluation, now he's a scouting director and he's been one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL; thats the point the author was making; IDK if thats the reason for his newfound success but I understand how the author came to that conclusion.

You don't know who or what he's recommending, and how much the actual GM in NO and Sean Peyton are agreeing or disagreeing with his assistant GM choices. It's hardly an apple to apples much less apples to oranges comparison to his choices while he was the GM of the dolphins.

Spielman is a much better example of success in the same position with a different organization having more success doing there was he wasn't given a chance to do here. Patience with Spielman might well have been rewarded, were as patience with Ireland was proving to be a recipe for failure.

 

[Wildbill3]

He was basically in charge for one year. The year Wannstedt quit. But he was responsible for the awful trade with Philly for their 3rd string QB AJ Feeley in which he gave up a 2nd round pick and also the panic move to get Gordon the 3rd string RB of the Rams when Ricky Williams quit which cost us a 3rd round pick.

His early years in Minnesota were bad too...it all changed when they hired Zimmer. He's had some 1st round stinkers though, Christian Ponder, Sharrif Floyd, Cordarrelle Patterson, Teddy Bridgewater, Laquon Treadwell, TJ Clemmings. His saving grace is that he's drafted some studs too. Stefon Diggs, Eric Kendricks (if only they were picking after us in that draft...2 spots ahead of us), Xavier Rhodes, Matt Kalil (now with the Panthers), Harrison Smith, Kyle Rudolph, Anthony Barr, Dalvin Cook and Pat Elfein.

is his percentage of success or failure with the vikings in line with other successful franchises?

 

[Awsi Dooger]

He was basically in charge for one year. The year Wannstedt quit. But he was responsible for the awful trade with Philly for their 3rd string QB AJ Feeley in which he gave up a 2nd round pick and also the panic move to get Gordon the 3rd string RB of the Rams when Ricky Williams quit which cost us a 3rd round pick.

That Rick Spielman tenure was the single most unnerving and embarrassing period in franchise history from a value standout. Far worse than Ireland in that regard. The most incompetent poker player in the world wouldn't panic and give up that 4th round pick to move ahead of the Vikings in the first round. I nearly drove off the road between Palm Springs and San Diego when those details were announced on ESPN radio.

Lamar Gordon should be the eternal example of what not to do during troubled times. Then as now you could find running backs of that caliber down the draft if not on the streets. There was also the Ogunleye trade, which was only favorable in comparison to anything else Spielman managed.

After the A.J. Feeley move, Spielman actually bragged that prior to the decision he watched every snap Feeley had taken in the league. That screams you have no idea what you are doing. You are essentially trying to talk yourself into something. There are vital characteristics and tendencies at quarterback and every other position that show early and often. You don't need to watch every play or even a majority of plays. It should be big picture scope and logic. Feeley was seldom a starter at Oregon and was backup to Joey Harrington as a senior, despite being the starter a year earlier. Dating to the Fiedler move and other than Culpepper/Brees we've generally pursued quarterbacks whose resume suggested middle of the road starter at best. No reason to be surprised at any of it.

 

[Shula Fan]

I've said this before that Ireland wasn't as bad as some on this site say. He always drafted guys with high floors who would be good (not great) players. He definitely did what he was uncomfortable doing when he drafted guys with "potentially" high ceilings in 2013. A guy like Jordan was a high reward/high risk player that he usually stayed away from and caught the wrath of the fan base for it. When he did do it, the players ended up being bust. That was the end of his ride in Miami.

 

[ANUFan]

Oh, this is one of those 2 out of 100 so-called "successes" that we should have had, gave up on too early and should have kept threads. It's been awhile and also lets see if the OP is going to make a thread of the 98 others that we rightly walked away from.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Yea and now his talent evaluations have been great in New Orleans, why is that ? In Miami he was a GM-which entails a lot more than just talent evaluation, now he's a scouting director and he's been one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL; thats the point the author was making; IDK if thats the reason for his newfound success but I understand how the author came to that conclusion.

In the real world those talent evaluations rely a LOT on an influential HC. Thus, in Miami it was not difficult to pay little heed to the HC. Try that in NO. Yup, that's what I thought, a good HC can judge talent and be a BIG help in the draft. Same is true of NYJ, Tbaum ignored Rex at his peril. I'm not arguing Baum is a good talent evaluator, but blaming him for all the NYJ draft picks is ignoring the elephant in the room. Anyway, Spielman, Ireland, Baum, Zimmer . . . always helped by a HC with an eye for talent. I believe there was a report of of Ireland asking Philbin of his draft targets/priorities and Philbin's response was similar to 'not my job.'

 

[Mrmeeseeks]

Spielman was bailed out by the Zimmer hire. Throwing a 1st and 4th at Sam Bradford was a garbage move unless you have a coach that could win with Case Keenum.

 

[Danny]

Did omar actually said that ireland had only ONE bad draft? He's delusional if that's what he thinks. I don't care what he's doing now but he totally sucked when he was here and BTW, omar sucks too

Ozzy rules!!

 

[datruth55]

Maybe I'm wrong but I always was under the impression that Spielman was given a mandate by Wannstedt to get a QB and a replacement back...and that Spielman was backed into a corner.

You may be right about the RB but not the QB. Wannstedt hated Feeley, didn't even want to play him but when we that season 0fer (think we were 0-7 when Wannstedt quit) he played him to try and get a spark but Feeley and Fiedler were in and out of the lineup. I remember Fiedler starting, then Feeley staring then he went back to Fiedler. It was a bad situation. And Gordon was never even an adequate backup.

 

[TheWozz]

You may be right about the RB but not the QB. Wannstedt hated Feeley, didn't even want to play him but when we that season 0fer (think we were 0-7 when Wannstedt quit) he played him to try and get a spark but Feeley and Fiedler were in and out of the lineup. I remember Fiedler starting, then Feeley staring then he went back to Fiedler. It was a bad situation. And Gordon was never even an adequate backup.

It was definitely ugly...the cliff that we fell off of as a franchise...and still trying to climb back

 

[datruth55]

It was definitely ugly...the cliff that we fell off of as a franchise...and still trying to climb back

I've always blamed Wannstedt for starting the decline. He killed this franchise. Some of the worst personnel decisions ever. I know a lot of people wanted him to take Drew Brees the year we took Jamar Fletcher but I wanted Reggie Wayne in that draft. There was all of the picks we gave up to either move up in the draft or trade for players (AJ Feeley and Lamar Gordon are two mentioned in this thread but we also gave up two 1st rounders for Ricky Williams and a bunch of other picks in his 4 drafts), there was some awful picks in the draft like Fletcher, Eddie Moore, Todd Wade, Ben Kelly, Morlon Greenwood, Seth McKinney, Wade Smith, Taylor Whitley...all those guys taken in the first 3 rounds of his 4 drafts...including Chris Chambers and Travis Minor...Minor actually didn't do much either but at least he got on the field.

Out of Wannstedt's 29 draft picks the only ones that did anything were Donald Lee, Yeremiah Bell, Randy McMichael, Chris Chambers, and Arturo Freeman. Those were his best picks....5 out of 29.

 

[TheWozz]

I've always blamed Wannstedt for starting the decline. He killed this franchise. Some of the worst personnel decisions ever. I know a lot of people wanted him to take Drew Brees the year we took Jamar Fletcher but I wanted Reggie Wayne in that draft. There was all of the picks we gave up to either move up in the draft or trade for players (AJ Feeley and Lamar Gordon are two mentioned in this thread but we also gave up two 1st rounders for Ricky Williams and a bunch of other picks in his 4 drafts), there was some awful picks in the draft like Fletcher, Eddie Moore, Todd Wade, Ben Kelly, Morlon Greenwood, Seth McKinney, Wade Smith, Taylor Whitley...all those guys taken in the first 3 rounds of his 4 drafts...including Chris Chambers and Travis Minor...Minor actually didn't do much either but at least he got on the field.

Out of Wannstedt's 29 draft picks the only ones that did anything were Donald Lee, Yeremiah Bell, Randy McMichael, Chris Chambers, and Arturo Freeman. Those were his best picks....5 out of 29.

Yep, I place the blame on Wannstedt for everything going to hell and can't forgive Jimmy Johnson for pushing him on Huizenga. To this day, I see Wannstedt on the college football programs and get pissed.

 

[Jay131866]

I was one of the very few on here that thought Ireland was OK, not great but not bad like most feel he was. I think the bigger issue was coaching, and also switching from player types he liked to players Philbin liked (basically pussies who wouldn't challenge his authority, and were more finesse). Most of the players we got rid of went on to have successful careers on other teams with better coaching. I think he went all in that last year bc he knew they were all on the hot seat with the Dion Jordan thing, that was never his style before then. He also rarely lost out on any trade value wise which is something Tannenbaum is AWFUL at, and hated giving away picks.

I might go out on a limb and even say I'd rather have Ireland here than Tannenbaum/Grier, especially now that we have a decent coach and QB.

 

[SkapePhin]

He was basically in charge for one year. The year Wannstedt quit. But he was responsible for the awful trade with Philly for their 3rd string QB AJ Feeley in which he gave up a 2nd round pick and also the panic move to get Gordon the 3rd string RB of the Rams when Ricky Williams quit which cost us a 3rd round pick.

His early years in Minnesota were bad too...it all changed when they hired Zimmer. He's had some 1st round stinkers though, Christian Ponder, Sharrif Floyd, Cordarrelle Patterson, Teddy Bridgewater, Laquon Treadwell, TJ Clemmings. His saving grace is that he's drafted some studs too. Stefon Diggs, Eric Kendricks (if only they were picking after us in that draft...2 spots ahead of us), Xavier Rhodes, Matt Kalil (now with the Panthers), Harrison Smith, Kyle Rudolph, Anthony Barr, Dalvin Cook and Pat Elfein.

Exactly. There is a lot of revisionist history. Spielman has one of the worst performances as a Dolphin GM, and that's saying something. His trades that year were worse than Tannenbaum. You didn't even mention the trade where he traded up ONE SPOT with Minnesota to draft Vernon Carey because the Patriots hinted they might move up for him... Instead, the Patriots stayed where they were and drafted Vince freaking Wilfork. He got completely hosed in every trade and didn't draft any good players whatsoever.

I think he was largely helped in Minnesota by his no-brainer first pick Adrian Peterson. Without that pick I think his career would have gone much differently. That one pick covered for a lot of his other failures. And he has been in a much easier division than the Dolphins have been in...

 

[jlfin]

Spielman is the guy who they blew it on. He’s been nothing short of fantastic in Minnesota. Ireland is back to basics as a scout. He did well in that role in Dallas. He’s just not GM material. Perhaps in NO he’s learned how to be better. But I wouldn’t count on it, mainly because of his serious lack of people skills. Spielman has been fantastic and wish him all the best. Coughlin although never in Miami is another guy I’d have liked running things.

And yet I remember defending him when some were calling him a loser and hot garbage.
I always felt that Wannstadt pressured him in to making some those panic trades the year RW was suspended/retired.
There were ecstatic to see him gone