Rumor - Grier And McDaniel On The Hot Seat | Page 11 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Rumor - Grier And McDaniel On The Hot Seat

Well said. The only thing I would push back on a little would be Tyreek Hill. Just speaking as a fan, i haven’t had so much fun enjoying watching fins games thanks to Hill/Tua/McDaniels the past couple of years since the 80’s and early 90’s. I see your point about winning and missed opportunities, can’t disagree with any of them really, but the team has been fun to watch the past couple of years which they really hadn’t been for well over 20 years minus a couple of anomalies…

There's nothing wrong with being fun to watch but it's not necessarily sustainable and it's not really going to garner long-term support from the fans when the NFL is competitive and therefore based on pivoting to "what's next" when the current strategy is proven lacking. That's not getting into any potential issues with building around a single player, let alone a potentially diva WR who doesn't have the most stable, reliable, low-key off-field persona.

Personally, I think there's a strong case to be made that Chris Grier has done a great job just as much as there's a case that's more critical (which is what I partially went through).

I certainly don't hate Chris Grier. I admire a lot of what he's done. We're more relevant now than at any time in my fandom. But I think his limitations with drafting and hiring coaches are pretty evident. The team is better now because Tua > Tannehill and we're investing more aggressively in a "win-now" mode. Is it really more complicated than that?

If this does get blown up it might be fun to try and find a HC in the mold of a Dan Quinn who could come in having learned from past failure in similar fashion to what we've seen from other experienced coaches making the most of their 2nd or 3rd stint: Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, etc. I'd like a bit of experience because we seem to be flailing when it comes to leadership.
 
I am assuming Ross understands the game of football. It is a mystery to me how some Dolphins fans can watch the games yet apparently not be aware of Tua's limitations. If we were having this conversation a year or two ago I could understand why fans would want more time to learn what Tua brings to the field, but we've now had two years and lots of games. It's enough already.
So your premise is that anyone here that disagrees with your opinion doesn't "understand football"?

Hmmm.......
 
So your premise is that anyone here that disagrees with your opinion doesn't "understand football"?

Hmmm.......

The more time people spend in silos the more out of touch they often are so he might be right. :chuckle:
 
I'd add even more circumstantial detail...


Let's begin with something rather singular. Grier's election to trade a R2 pick for QB Josh Rosen was telling. That wasn't a clever way to tank with a bad QB. That was an actual attempt to trade a valuable asset (which we needed as a team with a bad roster) for a might-be franchise QB. It was clear early on however that Rosen was so bad he'd soon be gone. The move was such a flop, we forget it even happened. But trading a R2 pick shouldn't be so easily forgiven as if it's merely the price of doing business. It isn't. And it's potentially damaging when your R2 history shows a 50% hit rate with picks like Xavien Howard, Mike Gesicki, Robert Hunt, Raekwon Davis and Jevon Holland.

You also have to wonder why HC Brian Flores was ever hired if he wasn't willing to go along with the tank? Not only did it end in Flores being replaced but it actually cost the Miami Dolphins in punitive damages. Perhaps if a HC more willing to go along with the plan was hired, we wouldn't have lost that R1 pick and the scandal could've been avoided altogether. It doesn't make strategic sense to hire a strong-willed HC if you're looking to tank and push the envelop with tampering.

Furthermore, why did we add the capable veteran QB Ryan Fitzpatrick if we were mostly interested in setting up the optimal draft position? What exactly did Ryan Fitzpatrick accomplish for us? He was never good. He was only good enough to ensure we didn't suck which helped undermine the tank. Flores and Fitzpatrick are two big reasons we have Tua instead of Burrow.

Speaking of Fitzpatricks, what ever became of Minkah Fitzpatrick? You remember, that prospect we liked so much that we drafted him in R1!? I guess he didn't like the idea of tanking either and again the mean, old nasty Brian Flores helped run him out of town. Funny how well a plan comes together in Miami, huh? Long story short, somehow the guy we were going to use we traded away and now he's an All-Pro FS for an historically stable organization with a more player-minded HC.

Speaking of coaches, why has this team parted ways with so many veteran coaches on contentious terms? Ross helped push Parcells away but Gailey and Fangio didn't seem to want to be here either. Both seemed happy to set sail after just a year in the organization. Gailey was always a weird hire and why we ever brought Fangio in if he wasn't planning to commit long-term, IDK. Again, it leads to questions about the vision of the leadership. But more importantly, why are these most experienced, long-tenured coaches so turned-off by what they seeing and experience in Miami?

Then you've got how the team botched Tua's first two seasons. We drafted a young QB recovering from a string of injuries in college and subsequently forced him onto the field early and did little to enhance the support around him. In those years, we had questionable offensive coaching, a sub-par OL and inadequate weapons (some of the worst in the NFL actually), hardly the type of environment in which you'd expect a young QB to find himself.

Meanwhile, most of the team's questionable spending was oriented towards defensive FAs like Emmanuel Ogbah ($15M), Eric Rowe ($16M), Shaq Lawson ($30M), Kyle Van Noy ($50M) and Byron Jones ($80M). Is it worth mentioning how little Lawson, Van Noy and Jones actually did? Shaq Lawson was quickly rendered irrelevant and is today mostly forgotten. Kyle Van Noy left on bad terms and hates us. Byron Jones ended up producing very little relative to his perceived value and his expensive contract.

Meanwhile our young QB is running from pressure throwing to people like Lynn Bowden, Mack Hollins, DeVante Parker and Isaiah Ford.

Along those lines, can we talk about the string of lackluster receivers we've drug from the mid-rounds who've done almost nothing? I'm speaking of Leonte Carroo (a R3 pick who we traded up for), Lynn Bowden (who we acquired from the Raiders for a R4 pick), Jakeem Grant (who stuck on the roster forever despite doing nothing), Durham Smythe (an over-rated R4 pick), Hunter Long (a R3 pick who's now gone) and Erik Ezukanma (a R3 pick who's done nothing).

...we might as well not even waste our time picking in R6 or R7: Thomas Duarte, Isaiah Ford, Malcolm Perry, Elijah Higgins, etc.


I think when you exit forums like this long enough to really evaluate what the Dolphins are it becomes quite clear they're a directionless franchise with a sort of leadership that has very little long-term vision. I actually think the veteran voices like Adam Beasley, Omar Kelly and others speak with a type of cynicism you can only get when you see this team fail for 10-20 straight years. Omar recently cited how this team is looking for the "next thing to sell the fans" and that's precisely accurate I'm afraid. That's what this team does. It cashes in future assets to make a splash every couple years to conjure up some hope and sell some tickets.

There will always be a few highlights to be happy about. Even those though are easily shot down by a critical analysis. For instance, a pick like Jaylen Waddle looks good at first glance but not compared to the alternatives who all have produced just as well (Smith, Chase, Pitts, Sewell). In fact, I think most agree they'd probably rather have drafted Ja'Marr Chase as a WR or maybe they'd rather have Penei Sewell on the team right now that we've got Tyreek Hill.

And maybe the worst knife in your side is when you look at Tyreek Hill and realize that you're not even really seeing any actual value being created. You see future assets and cap dollars cashed in for immediate production. Hills numbers are impressive but not really when you consider the cost combined with the fact that the team lacks a WR3 / TE to steal some of that production. While it did lead the league in 2023, Tua's 4,600-yds isn't actually all that outstanding in the modern NFL. It's good but not great. Finding Hill in the draft or securing him in a cheap trade would've been value creation. But that's not what Chris Grier and the Dolphins do.


I think what you say @gofins60 is probably as close to the truth as we can get. The Miami Dolphins are not what the fans want to believe they are. This team could've found it's franchise QB with Burrow or perhaps rebuilt the OL with quality picks or drawn in a qualified veteran at HC who had already learn in some prior stint or used the 2019 season to position itself strongly in the draft over the next decade. Did they do any of that?

How much do we really feel confident in? The GM? The HC? The QB? The financial future? Nothing is decided. Nothing today is more certain that it was 10 years ago. We may be back to square one in another 3-4 years looking for a new HC, QB, etc.

And that's why the National Media doesn't put Miami at the top. We're better than the average bad team. But we're not an actual elite team that does all the important stuff well.

But hey...for a short-sighted organization that lacks patience and doesn't draft particularly well outside of RB they've done pretty well.
Whoa whoa whoa, bro, haven't you been told by all the supposed experts here that you can't go back and criticize things in the past because it has nothing to do with now??? Lmao!!


Bro, great post!
 
So your premise is that anyone here that disagrees with your opinion doesn't "understand football"?

Hmmm.......
Not exactly. I am just confused about how anyone who has watched the past two seasons could or would expect that Tua will be able to lead the team to playoff victories.
 
Not exactly. I am just confused about how anyone who has watched the past two seasons could or would expect that Tua will be able to lead the team to playoff victories.
Look, I have commented on what I see as shortcomings with Tua at times, but I also acknowledge that he has some pretty damn good traits as well.

He has led the league in both yards, and Passer Rating. He has improved every year. While I don't think those statistics are the be all, end all benchmarks, I also do not dismiss them as meaningless.

There have been far worse QBs that have led their teams to playoff wins and SB appearances over the years.
 
Not exactly. I am just confused about how anyone who has watched the past two seasons could or would expect that Tua will be able to lead the team to playoff victories.
I think we would have beaten the Bills in last years playoff if Tua was playing instead of Skylar

Making just his third career start, Thompson finished 18 of 45 for 220 yards with a touchdown and two interceptions.

“Man, our defense played so good today. That’s tough. Because those guys gave us every chance to win,” Thompson said. “Feel like that’s a game we definitely had the opportunity to win. I will take (responsibility) for the loss, and shoulder that, and move forward.”
 
Thanks for the clarification but I don't think anyone's all that worried about Joe Burrow being "injury-prone."

You might want to check the source of that insider info though. I doubt it's coincidence. ;)
What is the meaning of narrative form?

Narrative form is how a writer or speaker chooses to tell their story. Narrative is a description of a series of events that are connected. These form a story. Narrative form is the combination of techniques used to tell a story and how it is presented.
 
Look, I have commented on what I see as shortcomings with Tua at times, but I also acknowledge that he has some pretty damn good traits as well.

He has led the league in both yards, and Passer Rating. He has improved every year. While I don't think those statistics are the be all, end all benchmarks, I also do not dismiss them as meaningless.

There have been far worse QBs that have led their teams to playoff wins and SB appearances over the years.
Fair enough, and two years ago I would have been all-in-for-Tua. But if the Dolphins are now considering an extension or long term contract for hi, I do not believe that would be a good decision.
It's one thing have a QB playing on his rookie contract, it's an entirely different thing to sign him for longer than that. Too many teams have made that mistake and I don't want the Dolphins to do it.
Playing rookie contract QB's is a good thing and I hope the Dolphins pursue that strategy.
 
If they extend Tua (and I think they will), then their jobs will be in Tua’s hands. If they have another season like last season with nothing to show for it then everyone is getting fired and the new regime is trading Tua.
 
If they extend Tua (and I think they will), then their jobs will be in Tua’s hands. If they have another season like last season with nothing to show for it then everyone is getting fired and the new regime is trading Tua.
Why not just let Tua play out the 4th year of his rookie contract ? If 2024 is not good then coaches can be fired and the Dolphins will have no obligation to pay Tua any more money.
 
JFC....

simon cowell facepalm GIF
 
Because everyone in the world would've drafted Burrow #1 in 2020 (including the Dolphins) and everyone in the world would take Burrow over Tua/Herbert/Hurts today.

C'mon, be honest. Burrow got murdered his 1st season and ended up with an ACL tear just like Tua got his ribs crushed in 2021 when Jesse Davis whiffed on a block. Either both get a pass for bad OL protection which led to their subsequent injuries or neither but they're on equal footing there with Tua's concussion history clearly being the biggest long-term concern among pretty much any current QB.

That's not why Burrow is preferrable though.

Burrow's 2019 at LSU was insane--one of the best a college QB ever had. And now he's won multiple Playoff games for the lowly Bengals including 2 home games in front of the Bengals faithful (which I'm sure the fans appreciate) as well as a road game against the AFC South Champion Titans and a road game against the AFC West Champion Chiefs.

He's literally the only QB in existence who doesn't automatically lose in a conversation about both he and Mahomes.

The dude got to the Super Bowl in year #2 on the Bengals with Zac Taylor as HC. How many credit Zac's incredible ability as HC for that? Not a lot. Maybe it was how stable and amazingly well-run the Bengals were prior to that? Yeah, not likely.

...and then he went 12-4 the following year beating the Ravens in the Playoffs as well as the AFC East Champion Bills in Buffalo. When you do all that by year #3 you might as well take year #4 off because it doesn't matter. You're clearly the best of that class.

Yeah, that's 5 Playoff wins in the first 3 years for anyone counting including 3 on the road on a team with a bunch of ex-Dolphins coaches.

He beat Derrick Henry in the Playoffs on the road.
He beat Lamar Jackson in the Playoffs.
He beat Josh Allen in the Playoffs on the road.
He beat Pat Mahomes in the Playoffs on the road.

Mahomes is a physical freak for sure but Burrow seems to be the same when it comes to big games.

He was 3 points from bringing a Lombardi Trophy to Cincinnati in year #2.

He's won so many big games it's not even funny. He won every big game in college--often as the star of the show himself: Texas, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Clemson...and at this point he's beaten literally every "elite" team in the AFC, many of them on the road!

The idea you wouldn't sell your soul to get him is laughable. You would in a heartbeat.

There's Mahomes, Burrow and everyone else. The fact some Miami fan might be so stuck in his own little bubble he thinks the resume of Joe Burrow is debatable...it's cringe TBH.

I don't have a problem with Burrow, he's accomplished plenty to this point. He's not in the same class as Mahomes, there's no one in the NFL in Mahomes's class.
For record keeping purposes, he did not beat Lamar in the playoffs. In fact, he got outplayed by Tyler Huntley in that game.
Additonally, what does any of this have to do with him being injury-prone? If Tua knew how to fall the amount of games started wouldn't even be close.
Burrow has admitted he has been concussed in games too.
You can't criticize one and not hold the other to the same standard.
 
I think we would have beaten the Bills in last years playoff if Tua was playing instead of Skylar

Making just his third career start, Thompson finished 18 of 45 for 220 yards with a touchdown and two interceptions.

“Man, our defense played so good today. That’s tough. Because those guys gave us every chance to win,” Thompson said. “Feel like that’s a game we definitely had the opportunity to win. I will take (responsibility) for the loss, and shoulder that, and move forward.”
Nice post! I believe that they probably could have won that game with Skylar if only Grier knew how to build an NFL caliber o-line and McDaniel knew how to effectively call plays. Also, regarding Skylar's quote, and I've said this in another thread, I think that Boyer's defense, while not great, was better against the Bills offense than Fangio's defense was.
 
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