Ryan Tannehill: Final Word | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Ryan Tannehill: Final Word

TedSlimmJr said:
I have a difficult time believing that. He's going to be a superstar and carry the AFC similar to Brady and Peyton Manning.
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You just wait until every person surrounding him does everything perfect every week. Then you'll see what a special talent we have in Tannehill.
 
tylerdolphin said:
You just wait until every person surrounding him does everything perfect every week. Then you'll see what a special talent we have in Tannehill.
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He already has Lamar Miller. Have you seen how fast he runs when he drops passes or goes down with a stiff breeze? Kid's a special talent.

He's gotta be running 4.4 when he does it.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
He already has Lamar Miller. Have you seen how fast he runs when he drops passes or goes down with a stiff breeze? Kid's a special talent.

He's gotta be running 4.4 when he does it.
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A true asset if ever there was one.

Elite talents like Miller and Tannehill are whats gonna pull this franchise out of mediocrity just as soon as we get more 1st round cornfed in here.
 
Serious question; is Tannehill's ceiling Matt Schaub?
 
I think what needs to be understood about "ceilings" in terms of quarterbacks is this.....

...an evaluator or coaching staff must first establish how likely it is that a player reaches whatever his ceiling may be based on mental capacity, instincts, speed at which he processes information, and feel for the game.

An example would be a kid like Ryan Tannehill that may have a ceiling of 9.5 on a scale from 1-10. However, based on intangibles from the neck up, most likely only reaches 70% of his physical ceiling. He'll never be a 9 in other words. He's only going to reach 70% of that. He's going to be a 6.5 or a 7 most of the time because of inconsistency. It's who he is.

On the other hand, a kid like Andy Dalton may only have a ceiling of 8 on a scale from 1-10. Based on intangibles from the neck up and ability to process information quickly, he's likely to reach 90-100% of his physical ceiling. He's going to be a steady 7.5 or 8 because of his consistency.

That's why evaluating QB's is so complex. Once you establish what you think a player's ceiling is, you then have to determine how likely it is that he ever reaches it using the determining factors.

Kirk Cousins' ceiling isn't at high as Robert Griffin's, but Cousins is going to play to his ceiling (potential) more consistently. Even though it may be a lower celing.
 
For all intents and purposes I've just changed my way of thinking with respect to "ceiling" on a quarterback to be somewhere around 80% mental. The best quarterbacks in football are Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. That tells you that the position is mental/technical in nature and not all that physical.

Whether you still view ceiling to be physical-based but then you add on a likelihood of reaching it modifier, or whether you just skip straight to the point and make a quarterback's ceiling fully mental/technical in nature and very little physical...you're basically doing the same thing.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I think what needs to be understood about "ceilings" in terms of quarterbacks is this.....

...an evaluator or coaching staff must first establish how likely it is that a player reaches whatever his ceiling may be based on mental capacity, instincts, speed at which he processes information, and feel for the game.

An example would be a kid like Ryan Tannehill that may have a ceiling of 9.5 on a scale from 1-10. However, based on intangibles from the neck up, most likely only reaches 70% of his physical ceiling. He'll never be a 9 in other words. He's only going to reach 70% of that. He's going to be a 6.5 or a 7 most of the time because of inconsistency. It's who he is.

On the other hand, a kid like Andy Dalton may only have a ceiling of 8 on a scale from 1-10. Based on intangibles from the neck up and ability to process information quickly, he's likely to reach 90-100% of his physical ceiling. He's going to be a steady 7.5 or 8 because of his consistency.

That's why evaluating QB's is so complex. Once you establish what you think a player's ceiling is, you then have to determine how likely it is that he ever reaches it using the determining factors.

Kirk Cousins' ceiling isn't at high as Robert Griffin's, but Cousins is going to play to his ceiling (potential) more consistently. Even though it may be a lower celing.
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Outstanding post
 
My opinion, as always, is that if a guy is screwing around playing baseball or wide receiver or whatever when his peers are using the normal timetable to progress at their craft, then the upside of the guy with the oddball resume is not as high as it appears to be, and the likelihood he gets there is not as great as normal.

I learned it the hard way. I could throw out tons of names from decades ago that nobody would recognize. But I still remember them. Guys who were out of football then returned. I wanted to believe in the cute story, the unusual route. Never worked, at least not at quarterback. Also, does anybody realize how many pro style quarterbacks were stuck behind wishbone or veer types in the '60s through '80s? It was an annual obsession in scouting circles to evaluate those guys. Some of them were adjusted to the moon. I was fooled several times. Only Troy Aikman fully panned out but he escaped the wishbone when Jerome Brown broke his leg in 1985, prompting transfer to a passing offense at UCLA.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
My opinion, as always, is that if a guy is screwing around playing baseball or wide receiver or whatever when his peers are using the normal timetable to progress at their craft, then the upside of the guy with the oddball resume is not as high as it appears to be, and the likelihood he gets there is not as great as normal.

I learned it the hard way. I could throw out tons of names from decades ago that nobody would recognize. But I still remember them. Guys who were out of football then returned. I wanted to believe in the cute story, the unusual route. Never worked, at least not at quarterback. Also, does anybody realize how many pro style quarterbacks were stuck behind wishbone or veer types in the '60s through '80s? It was an annual obsession in scouting circles to evaluate those guys. Some of them were adjusted to the moon. I was fooled several times. Only Troy Aikman fully panned out but he escaped the wishbone when Jerome Brown broke his leg in 1985, prompting transfer to a passing offense at UCLA.
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Didn't John Elway and Russell Wilson play a little baseball? If that's a shot at Winston it's not a valid one.
 
Marino, Kaepernick, Elway, Russell Wilson....there's numerous QB's who played baseball. Its hard to be as good as Winston is at QB while pitching. It affects your throwing motion and will need to be shortened up a tad. Although that's the case with 80% of QB's who don't play baseball.

I like the point about pocket passers being stuck in wishbone type offenses. Rich Gannon was a Wing-T quarterback until he got to the NFL.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
My opinion, as always, is that if a guy is screwing around playing baseball or wide receiver or whatever when his peers are using the normal timetable to progress at their craft, then the upside of the guy with the oddball resume is not as high as it appears to be, and the likelihood he gets there is not as great as normal.

I learned it the hard way. I could throw out tons of names from decades ago that nobody would recognize. But I still remember them. Guys who were out of football then returned. I wanted to believe in the cute story, the unusual route. Never worked, at least not at quarterback. Also, does anybody realize how many pro style quarterbacks were stuck behind wishbone or veer types in the '60s through '80s? It was an annual obsession in scouting circles to evaluate those guys. Some of them were adjusted to the moon. I was fooled several times. Only Troy Aikman fully panned out but he escaped the wishbone when Jerome Brown broke his leg in 1985, prompting transfer to a passing offense at UCLA.
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What was that kid's name who played for the Yankees organization and everyone thought he would be a blue chip QB if he wanted to be? Drew Hensen? Some QB from Michigan if I am not mistaken.
 
WVDolphan said:
What was that kid's name who played for the Yankees organization and everyone thought he would be a blue chip QB if he wanted to be? Drew Hensen? Some QB from Michigan if I am not mistaken.
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correct, i believe he played 3rd base in the yankees system for the short time he was there.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Marino, Kaepernick, Elway, Russell Wilson....there's numerous QB's who played baseball. Its hard to be as good as Winston is at QB while pitching. It affects your throwing motion and will need to be shortened up a tad. Although that's the case with 80% of QB's who don't play baseball.

I like the point about pocket passers being stuck in wishbone type offenses. Rich Gannon was a Wing-T quarterback until he got to the NFL.
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This might be a "what came first the chicken or the egg" kind of question, but since you have been following his career since HS, do you think Winston's throwing motion would have been like this if he had never played baseball in HS or at FSU? Or do you think playing baseball caused it? I think once he's in the NFL it will improve some. I just don't know how much you can change it after you've thrown I don't know 20,000+ passes, probably much more than that, the same way. That's a lot of muscle memory to reprogram. So like I said it I think there will be a tad of improvement once he reaches the NFL. But I'm not qualified to say how much. What's your thoughts on this?

Also, what do you think Winston's ceiling is as a Quarterback? You and CK have mentioned that the ability to reach your ceiling as QB comes down to your understanding of the mental part of the game, which is by far Winston's strength. Now, the biggest detractor for him reaching his ceiling will be if there are any off the field endeavors that will hinder his development.
 
BlueFin said:
I have to say your final assessment of Ryan Tannehill was dead wrong, he clearly displays franchise QB talent.
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I figured you were probably ready to bump this thread again 35 games in, so I did it for you...
 
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