Scheme or Talent?

[Jerrysanders]

Burke's scheme is definitely an issue; but to the ppl claiming our defense is filled with talent, I respectfully disagree.

 

[phinfan33]

If we're going to run a 4-3 defense, fine..great..let's do it and roll with it. But can we PLEASE get rid of this Wide 9 bullshit?!!! Every team that has ran it has gotten railed in the running game like it was the cool thing to do, and we were no different last year. I hope our Ivy League educated DC does away with it and maybe comes up with his own way of running the 43 that can drastically improve our run defense.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

I am all too familiar with Olivadotti, having spent many precious Sundays watching that foul defense (51-45 anyone?). He was too much of a friend for Shula to fire.

If it were all about scheme, everyone would run the same thing with the same results but that doesn't happen.

Talent first, maximized by scheme/coaching.

It is (or should be) dependent on your opponent. Flexible and versatile, just like today's modern offenses.

Going back to your talent argument , name all the top players at their position for last years top scoring defense (NE).

 

[bradmcnutt13]

Talent wise, we certainly have more than last year so there should be an improve. Hayes is an upgrade, Timmons is an upgrade, Godchaux is looking like an upgrade and we have Jones back.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I think it's a combination. I'm not a fan of the Wide 9, but also recognize that the teams' top players on defense are veterans like Suh, Wake and Jones. This offseason was about bringing in young talent on defense and developing young players takes time.

Miami lacks serious talent at linebacker and the secondary is filled with young talent that may or may not be the answer. So, yes, there are some holes on defense. In addition, the Dolphins had only 33 sacks last year so that's a problem.

I think the defensive line is good, but not good enough to mask the lack of talent elsewhere. The team serious needs someone to emerge as a pass rushing threat, maybe Harris will be that player.

The bottom line is that the offense will have to carry the defense this year.

 

[dudebro420mang]

Combination of both. Our corner situation is not great. We've got a great strong safety (although he was pretty terrible last night), but we don't have the center fielder with great range at all. Really wish we could have gotten Marcus Maye.

We have 3 strong safeties on the roster, 2 special teamers who are listed as safeties but are really more CBs and no free safeties.

 

[dudebro420mang]

Miami had a good defense (with a Top 5 Rushing Defense) under Sparano/Nolan. The scheme was changed under Philbin/Coyle and that Top 5 Rushing Defense dropped in the rankings with basically the same personnel. It then continued to drop every year after that as Philbin and a pathetic Front Office replaced talented players with bums. When Gase hired Joseph nothing changed. Under Philbin and Gase, Miami's defense was eerily similar: they couldn't stop the run, CBs played so far off the WRs that the offense would easily march right down the field, and 3rd and very long was almost always an automatic 1st down. I have NEVER seen a defense give up so many 20+ yard runs on 3rd and forever!

Gase is slowly building a respectable offense (if he would only replace the entire o-line!!!!!), but he knows nothing about defense, and neither does his choice of DCs nor the Front Office personnel.

There might be more to it than that. Joseph did get a head coaching job after 1 terrible season as our D coordinator. Unless Elway is a total moron Joseph has to do something right.

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

LOL. I take you are not familiar with Olivadotti.

We haven't had a great DC since Arnsparger. We had a few good DC's. One is currently the HC in NY, at one time Nolan was another, and I'm maybe missing a few others like Jimmy Johnson although he was obviously the HC.




Again, see Olividotti.




No one is playing with chicken **** in the NFL.

So you're saying that all Miami needed last season was a different scheme, and not different talent to be a dominant defense? I don't buy that. Not one bit. If that's the case why not just bargain shop for the likes of Donald Butler and then get yourself a shiny new scheme?

 

[dudebro420mang]

You can look at how much worse Seattle was without either of their safeties. They don't have the most complex scheme in the world with a lot of cover 1/3 and only a handful of defensive fronts.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

You can look at how much worse Seattle was without either of their safeties. They don't have the most complex scheme in the world with a lot of cover 1/3 and only a handful of defensive fronts.

Their coverage schemes for the secondary personnel are mainly Cover 1 and Cover 3 but the execution of their jam techniques and man coverage skills are very difficult. Also their front 7 is a complicated hybrid of 3-4 and 4-3 principles mixing one and two gap players along the DL and disguising run fits.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

So you're saying that all Miami needed last season was a different scheme, and not different talent to be a dominant defense? I don't buy that. Not one bit. If that's the case why not just bargain shop for the likes of Donald Butler and then get yourself a shiny new scheme?

That's not what I'm saying. Talent matters, scheme matters more. I've never meant to brush aside the value of talented players, but given the choice (like the thread title suggests) I'd choose coaching 10/10 times.

 

[NY8123]

It's the scheme. Every NFL team has enough talent to succeed. It's the coaching (scheme, gameplan, etc.) that separates them.



"Time will tell"?

How much more evidence does recent NFL history need to give you?

It's a **** defensive scheme just like Chip Kelly had a **** offensive scheme. I mean maybe if you have the perfect personnel to run it but Miami isn't it.

 

[Zounds]

When your defense lacks scheme and talent, it's hard to tell which has the greatest impact. I didn't like the scheme under Vance Joseph, and Matt Burke is starting to remind me of the same. Even if they had a good scheme, they have weak LB's, which is enough to ruin just about any scheme.

 

[AL R]

Quadrant 3: Win Now
The teams in this quadrant are the ones who really are at their roster peaks. They are above average spenders and their roster ages are also quite high. If things don’t break right for these teams there is a good chance that they will crash and burn in the near future. These are the teams that need good drafts to keep their window open.

The two teams with the most to lose this year are the Cardinals and the Dolphins. I’d argue that the Cardinals already saw their window close last year but decided to try it again rather than rebuilding this year. They have the 3rd oldest and 7th highest paid group in the NFL and that typically is not going to be a good combo. Miami has the 6th oldest and 2nd highest paid group. Those numbers tell you why they went out and signed Jay Cutler because they didn’t want to take the risk that Matt Moore could not handle the job.

https://overthecap.com/oldest-expensive-nfl-teams-2017/

O:-) Not with this defense.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Quadrant 3: Win Now
The teams in this quadrant are the ones who really are at their roster peaks. They are above average spenders and their roster ages are also quite high. If things don’t break right for these teams there is a good chance that they will crash and burn in the near future. These are the teams that need good drafts to keep their window open.

The two teams with the most to lose this year are the Cardinals and the Dolphins. I’d argue that the Cardinals already saw their window close last year but decided to try it again rather than rebuilding this year. They have the 3rd oldest and 7th highest paid group in the NFL and that typically is not going to be a good combo. Miami has the 6th oldest and 2nd highest paid group. Those numbers tell you why they went out and signed Jay Cutler because they didn’t want to take the risk that Matt Moore could not handle the job.

https://overthecap.com/oldest-expensive-nfl-teams-2017/

O:-) Not with this defense.

On the contrary, the Cardinals defense is very good with a flexible, versatile, and (most importantly) a modern scheme with hybrid players designed to combat and confuse today's NFL offenses.