SHAQ TO MIAMI: IT's OFFICIAL!

[Den54]

First of all, Grant didn't put up big numbers. Butler seemed to only show up every other game(though he was maturing).

I like this deal, I'm ready to see the Heat win a championship. And with big shaq, and a young extremely talented 2nd year player like Wade, I think our chances just got that much better.

To answer your question, Haslem, and R. Butler will put up at least and average of 6-10 ppg each getting starter minutes, and Eddie seems to put up close to 20ppg consistantly each year.

I like Haslem a lot, I think he looked great coming off the bench.

Shaq + Kobe won back-to back-to back titles, basicly all alone. What makes you think Shaq + Wade can't do the same? Although Shaq is a bit older, I think we have better role players, than the Lakers did during their great run.

I guess Robert Horey, Rick Fox, Derrick Fisher ect did'nt play any key roles in those championship years huh? Basicly all alone? And now you have better role players? :roflmao:

 

[rhadaddy]

That's what bothers me about this trade

[/B]

I guess Robert Horey, Rick Fox, Derrick Fisher ect did'nt play any key roles in those championship years huh? Basicly all alone? And now you have better role players? :roflmao:

Yes you get the most dominating player in Basketball, but you dont get the big game clutch shooting of Robert Horry, the playmaking ability of Derek Fisher and
great role players like Rick Fox and Devean george.

D Wade will be great, but Eddie Jones or R. Butler is no Robert Horry in terms of Clutch shooting. Haslem (future 6th man of the year) will be great teamed up with Shaq in the post, but the heat by far has less talent than the old laker teams. Who's our backup center Wang Zhi Zhi :shakeno:

The only comforting factor is hopefully Shaq's presence alone will persuade more free agents to look the heat's way, Like a Karl Malone, Toni Kukoc, Derek Fisher, etc... not to mention the heat still have a high schooler who may suprise some people this year.

So let's hope Riley has a trick or two up his sleeve left. and let's hope Riley stays in the Front office, and van gundy remains the coach.

 

[ChambersWI]

did you just call Devean George a great roleplayer :shakeno:

 

[Samphin]

He can shine all he wants, but LA ain't going anywhere with Brian Grant at center(as much as I admire Grant's heart).

He might not yet be playing center for L.A., at least not starting. I highly doubt this is the final trade and final makeup of the L.A. Lakers. A sign and trade for Dampier perhaps might be in the making. Sending Gary Payton to his hometown along with someone like Rick Fox would more than make up the salary for Dampier (around 11 mil ). With Golden State inclined to lose him for nothing, they might jump at a deal to bring home the Oakland Native Payton and the veteren presence of Fox. Fox is rumored to retire anyways so getting that alsary to roll of woulf be nice as well. Plus, Gary's contract runs out next year too and that allows even more freedom for them. I would not be surprised to see this happen. Or perhaps snatching up Vlade Divac ( as much as I cannot stand the Big Flop ) with the MLE. I don't think L.A. is going to put all their hopes at Center on a 34 year old aching Brian Grant.

 

[VJ1252]

He might not yet be playing center for L.A., at least not starting. I highly doubt this is the final trade and final makeup of the L.A. Lakers. A sign and trade for Dampier perhaps might be in the making. Sending Gary Payton to his hometown along with someone like Rick Fox would more than make up the salary for Dampier (around 11 mil ). With Golden State inclined to lose him for nothing, they might jump at a deal to bring home the Oakland Native Payton and the veteren presence of Fox. Fox is rumored to retire anyways so getting that alsary to roll of woulf be nice as well. Plus, Gary's contract runs out next year too and that allows even more freedom for them. I would not be surprised to see this happen. Or perhaps snatching up Vlade Divac ( as much as I cannot stand the Big Flop ) with the MLE. I don't think L.A. is going to put all their hopes at Center on a 34 year old aching Brian Grant.

I think GS would want a lot more than Payton and Malone. LA would probably have to give up Caron too.

 

[Samphin]

I think GS would want a lot more than Payton and Malone. LA would probably have to give up Caron too.

I never said Malone, I said Fox. Malone is a free agent and will most likely retire, or follow the Big Feller to Miami. Fox has an albatross contract but one that could roll off right away(retirement) and give the Warriors some room. Also, Payton will probably only stay one year for them, but he would be returning to his home town and would probably mech well with the guys there. In Oakland, Gary would be the number one or two option, not fourth or fifth as he is in L.A.

The Lakers have a log jam at the 2/3 spot. So, I could see them possibly parting with George, Rush or Walton as well. Walton I would be opposed to though since he can play a bit at the 4 spot as well. Ideally, A trade for Payton, George and Fox to GS for Dampier would be outstanding. The Warriors are prepared to let Damp go for nothing, so the fact that they get something, anything, in return for him is a boon.

I doubt it happens, but as I type this, I see a report on ESPN.com that says Payton may want to go elsewhere since Shaq is now gone. Perhaps my fantasy trade will become a reality?

 

[Fresh]

Remember that Caron Butler can't be traded for 60 days, once this trade is official(unless he's dealt within 24 hours).

 

[Samphin]

Remember that Caron Butler can't be traded for 60 days, once this trade is official(unless he's dealt within 24 hours).

I don't think L.A. is getting Caron as trade bait. I believe this trade is somewhat the doing of Kobe Bryant and the players he wouldn't mind playing beside. Personally, I would like to see how a lineup of Fisher, Bryant, Butler, Odom and Grant would do. All in their 20's except Grant and all can run and shoot. It could be a throwback to the days of Showtime, although on a lower scale of course.

The Bottom line though is this. L.A. will have too many 2/3 type players once this trade is official. They will also lack in the big man department ( Grant, Slava, B. Cook and a rookie). Doing a sign and trade with G.S. makes sense to land Dampier and free up the logjam at the G/F spot. Having Bryant, Butler, Walton, and Rush man those spots is perfect since all can be interchanged or possibly on the floor at the same time ( with Walton sliding to the 4 Butler the 3, Rush at the 2 and Bryant manning the 1).

Also, this gives the Warriors a decent outside threat in George, Veterans in Payton and Fox and cap relief next year, since both Payton's and Fox's contracts roll off. Fox might even help them out and retire this year ( especially if he is traded). It makes sense to me.

 

[Fresh]

Personally, I would like to see how a lineup of Fisher, Bryant, Butler, Odom and Grant would do. All in their 20's except Grant and all can run and shoot.

Trust me, if you're a Lakers fan...you don't want a front court of Odom & Grant out in the West, as I wasn't happy with it in the East.

 

[Samphin]

Trust me, if you're a Lakers fan...you don't want a front court of Odom & Grant out in the West, as I wasn't happy with it in the East.

As for the Heat, I know I mentioned Mo'Pete earlier, but it may take the close to(if not all) of the full MLE to sway Toronto away from matching. I would love to split the MLE between Rodney White(SF) & Damon Jones(PG), then sign Keon Clark(PF/C) for the LLE.

Again, you're going to get some players worth the LLE for the minimum with the Diesel in town. We may be able to find some decent backups for the minimum..

PG-Dwyane Wade, Damon Jones
SG-Eddie Jones, Dorell Wright
SF-Rodney White, Rasual Butler
PF-Udonis Haslem, Keon Clark, Malik Allen
C-Shaquille O'Neal, Keon Clark

I'd be perfectly fine with that.

CO, I wouldn't want that proposed L.A. lineup in their at all times. They would get eaten up by the west centers. Duncan, Yao, Garnett, and even Brad Miller would have their way. Again, I wouldn't mind that lineup when needing to open up the offense and play some run and gun. Ideally, someone like Dampier would be a nice pickup to bang the boards and big bodies underneath, sliding Grant down to PF and Odom to the SF spot, where he creates all kinds of mismatches with his 6'10" frame.

For me an LA roster as follows is good for moi:

PG: Fisher, Vujacic(rookie)
SG: Bryant, Butler, Rush
SF: Odom, Butler, Walton
PF: Grant, Odom, Medvedenko, Douthit, Cook
C: Dampier, Grant, Douthit(rookie)

This gives the rookie PG, which L.A. is high on some quality time behind the veteran Fisher. Vujacic is a quality passer who can run as well. A perfect guy to feed the ball to Bryant, Odom and Butler. This also frees up part of the logjam at the 2/3 spots and gives Walton more playing time as well as Rush, who has improved his 3 point shot. The odd man out may be Brian Cook who could be behind Odom, Grant and Medvedenko at the PF and may even slip behind the rookie Douthit. A front court of Dampier, Grant and Odom would be great for going up against teams such as Minnesota and San Antonio who have athletic big men. Odom can help out along with Grant on the faster PF's/C's while Dampier handles the big guys (such as Shaq, who he has done ok against) for rebounds and defense. This would be my realistic and ideal lineup for next year.

 

[R_t_Kraken]

[/B]

I guess Robert Horey, Rick Fox, Derrick Fisher ect did'nt play any key roles in those championship years huh? Basicly all alone? And now you have better role players? :roflmao:

None of those guys consistanly put up decent numbers. Horry, hit big shots in crunch time(He is now struggling in SA) Derrick fisher was solid, I'll give you that. And Rick Fox is just crap

Anyways, I guess these guys were big peices at times, But the point I'm getting at is, who really wouldn't be a big role player when teaming with Kobe + Shaq? Only now it will be Wade + Shaq. And Wade is a superstar on the rise. Acquring Shaq, just made Wade's life that much easier. If not for picking up Shaq, teams would be game planning for Wade alone. Now that they have the Diesel to worry about, teams won't be doubling up on Wade nearly as much, if at all!

Eddie Jones is better than all three of these guys alone. Udonis Haslem was great off the bench last season as a rookie. And I see no reason why he wouldn't have a shot at starting. I've also been hearing talk of the "mailman" signing a 1 year deal, and coming over to play the PF position for us.

 

[Den54]

None of those guys consistanly put up big numbers. Horry, hit big shots in crunch time(He is now struggling in SA) Derrick fisher was solid, I'll give you that. And Rick Fox is just crap

Eddie Jones is better than all three of these guys alone. Udonis Haslem was great off the bench last season as a rookie. And I see no reason why he wouldn't have a shot at starting. I've also been hearing talk of the "mailman" signing a 1 year deal, and coming over to play the PF position for us.

Homer response. Those guys did'nt have to put up big numbers, but their shots fell when they needed to. Thats what role players provide. They come thru when it counts. In case you did'nt notice the mailman does'nt deliver any more.

 

[Samphin]

None of those guys consistanly put up decent numbers. Horry, hit big shots in crunch time(He is now struggling in SA) Derrick fisher was solid, I'll give you that. And Rick Fox is just crap

Anyways, I guess these guys were big peices at times, But the point I'm getting at is, who really wouldn't be a big role player when teaming with Kobe + Shaq? Only now it will be Wade + Shaq. And Wade is a superstar on the rise. Acquring Shaq, just made Wade's life that much easier. If not for picking up Shaq, teams would be game planning for Wade alone. Now that they have the Diesel to worry about, teams won't be doubling up on Wade nearly as much, if at all!

Eddie Jones is better than all three of these guys alone. Udonis Haslem was great off the bench last season as a rookie. And I see no reason why he wouldn't have a shot at starting. I've also been hearing talk of the "mailman" signing a 1 year deal, and coming over to play the PF position for us.

Horry Fisher and Fox played their roles perfectly. Eddie might be more of a complete player than those three, but he constantly gets shots in Miami and has a chance to shoot himself out of a funk. Horry, Fisher and Fox, basically had to wait until they got a few shots and had to hit them while cold. Eddie gets more opportunities, at least until now. Wade and Shaq should gobble up most of the attempts. But even if those guys were to average 30 a piece ( which will not happen), that is still an extra 30-40 points your "role players" will have to make up. That is where Fisher, Fox, and Horry excelled and where the rest of the Heat will have to in order to.

Horry did more than just make "big shots" He and Fox did a lot of the dirty work that doesn't get much attention. They took charges, played tough defense that took great offenses out of their rhythem ( Rick Fox was great at this ). They hit shots when they were supposed to (with few exceptions) and never eally complained about their jobs. They also provided good leadership through hectic times and helped the young guys such as Walton, Rush and George up their games to what they are now (although, I admit, George's game isn't very high still).

Don't underestimate what those players can do. While you may think Eddie, and Haslem can do this, it is often hard to adjust to that type of role when you are used to something else. Glen Rice, Samaki Walker and others can attest to that. They all failed in their roles next to Shaq.

 

[R_t_Kraken]

Homer response. Those guys did'nt have to put up big numbers, but their shots fell when they needed to. Thats what role players provide. They come thru when it counts. In case you did'nt notice the mailman does'nt deliver any more.

Why do you think that is? Maybe because nobody was worried about them? They dared them to hit their shots(which they did most of the time) but more often than not they were open looks. Eddie Jones played just about all of last year with a man, sometimes two in his grill. And still manages to put up 17.5 ppg. I don't see how that is at all homeristic. :shakeno:

 

[VJ1252]

Yes you get the most dominating player in Basketball, but you dont get the big game clutch shooting of Robert Horry, the playmaking ability of Derek Fisher and
great role players like Rick Fox and Devean george.

D Wade will be great, but Eddie Jones or R. Butler is no Robert Horry in terms of Clutch shooting. Haslem (future 6th man of the year) will be great teamed up with Shaq in the post, but the heat by far has less talent than the old laker teams. Who's our backup center Wang Zhi Zhi :shakeno:

The only comforting factor is hopefully Shaq's presence alone will persuade more free agents to look the heat's way, Like a Karl Malone, Toni Kukoc, Derek Fisher, etc... not to mention the heat still have a high schooler who may suprise some people this year.

So let's hope Riley has a trick or two up his sleeve left. and let's hope Riley stays in the Front office, and van gundy remains the coach.

You waay overrate the Lakers role players. Derek Fishers playmaking ability??? Are you talking about passing it to Shaq or when you give it to Kobe and get out of the way? Jason Kidd has playmaking ability, Fisher is just a point guard who has a decent(not great) outside shot, cant play D, and knows to give the ball to shaq. Robert Horry is known for making clutch shots but the fact is he missed some too like 2 years ago against SA. And last year with the Spurs he had a terrible 3PT % in the playoffs. Who was the lakers backup center? Slave Medvedenko?:roflmao: