Slimm's 2015 Defensive Ends/OLB's | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Slimm's 2015 Defensive Ends/OLB's

ckparrothead said:
Yeah it was a significant difference, how much he's thinned up and how much more explosive and agile he seems aftward. I'm not about to put him into top 5 pick territory all the sudden on one game against a crappy opponent, but to some extent the opponent doesn't matter because you're looking at the way he's moving versus the way he moved before and that's the primary difference. He could be on the field by himself just running drills and you'd see the difference.
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I just didn't like him as a 5 technique in a 3-4. I know Calais Campbell has made it work with similar dimensions, but he isn't a great run defender, he gets by but is an outstanding rusher. I think Oakman is a guy you play at LE in a 4-3 (or on the strongside depending on scheme) and slide him to a 3 technique in subpackages. Similar to how Michael Bennett in Seattle is used. He gives you a physical edge setter on early downs and a very explosive interior rusher in subpackages. I'm not ready to say he is a top 5 pick yet either. I still prefer Beasley, and Gregory to him. Although they are a year or two away from being every down players. He has jumped Calhoun and Dupree IMO. I never liked Dante Fowler and had Oakman ahead of him already. But I'm starting to become a fan. Hopefully it was not an aberration against a crappy opponent.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
27. Obum Gwacham / Oregon St. / 6'5", 236
(Former WR making the switch to DE as a Senior. Looked outstanding at his new position back in the spring. Has the ability to move up this list. All he has to do is put enough on film to justify it first.)
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Gil Brandt called him his sleeper for this year. He also called Ziggy Ansah as a sleeper as well
 
I haven't seen him play in 2014, but unless Randy Gregory shows marked improvement, I have Shawn Oakman leaping him.
 
Don't see the top 5 buzz on Gregory at all. Vic Beasley is so much more advanced than Gregory it's not even funny. The team that takes Gregory over Beasley will end up regretting it. I think Gregory is a solid first round pick. Don't see top 5 or 10 buzz at all. He will probably drafted that high, but a team will reach for him. You can't coach get off.
 
Randy Gregory is still very raw as I mentioned previously. Still doesn't really know how to play football yet. He makes all his plays off pure athleticism and hustle...and he makes a lot of em that way.

He is typically late off the ball, and spends a little too much time on the ground and getting knocked off his feet. A lot of times he can just look like a chicken with its head cut off running around out there. He needs coaching and more experience.

What he does best is hand fight. His hands are so fast. He uses them to initiate contact and a tackle will usually have to beat him with great feet....they have little chance at keeping Gregory at bay with upper body or punch. They can't get their hands inside because his are usually too fast.

I don't think you can win consistently against NFL tackles with a great first step or get off. You have to win with counters and setting em up. We've seen guys with some of the best get off coming out of college like Jerry Hughes or Bjoern Werner struggle in the NFL.

Gregory's upside is tremendous. Certainly too raw to go top 5 though. I don't know how many folks were able to watch Jason Taylor in college under Gerry Faust, but that's pretty much what he looked like.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Randy Gregory is still very raw as I mentioned previously. Still doesn't really know how to play football yet. He makes all his plays off pure athleticism and hustle...and he makes a lot of em that way.

He is typically late off the ball, and spends a little too much time on the ground and getting knocked off his feet. A lot of times he can just look like a chicken with its head cut off running around out there. He needs coaching and more experience.

What he does best is hand fight. His hands are so fast. He uses them to initiate contact and a tackle will usually have to beat him with great feet....they have little chance at keeping Gregory at bay with upper body or punch. They can't get their hands inside because his are usually too fast.

I don't think you can win consistently against NFL tackles with a great first step or get off. You have to win with counters and setting em up. We've seen guys with some of the best get off coming out of college like Jerry Hughes or Bjoern Werner struggle in the NFL.

Gregory's upside is tremendous. Certainly too raw to go top 5 though. I don't know how many folks were able to watch Jason Taylor in college under Gerry Faust, but that's pretty much what he looked like.
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I really like the motor and athleticism. And he does use his hands well. I see the upside. You just can't coach get off. You have it or you don't and he doesn't have it. In the Miami game he was getting off a little bit better when he was standing up. But there were still times he was the last one off the ball in a 2 pt. I think he can develop into a good #2 complimentary rusher. But he's not going to be 15+ sack guy. He'll be in the 8-10 if you have a very good #1 rusher to take attention off of him.
 
Brock Hekking is a beast. Reminds me a lot of Clay Matthews. They're virtually identical in terms of their size, motor, and how they play. Not to mention hair...

They're also very similar in terms of how they both worked their way up the depth chart over their careers after redshirting. Although Clay didn't start at DE for USC until his Senior year... worked his way up playing special teams. Clay Matthews shot up draft boards later in his Senior season after wallowing in relative obscurity for 4 years at USC as a backup and special teamer.

I see a little bit of Clay in Brock Hekking.
 
Slimm, if you were an even front, where would you play Leonard? At 298 I think he can easily play the 3 technique. But he also could be a physical edge setting left end who slides inside on sub packages. No matter what he will be rushing from the 3 in nickel and dime. But I'm interested as to where you would play him in a 4-3. He's rare in that he's just as good setting the edge and stacking and shedding as he is getting up the field and rushing the passer or chasing in backside pursuit. But he can really run. I'd just play him as a 3 technique all game long, but if someone were to go down he gives you the versatility of playing LE. He might be best as a 5 technique in a 3-4. I don't care what defense you want to run or where you want to put him. I just want him on my team. Not many guys with the combination of strength, motor, and being as light on your feet as Leonard. His hand usage is outstanding vs run and pass. Not many guys know how to create extension and then disengage in the run game. He's excellent at that. He's not J.J. Watt but he's probably the closest thing there will be for a long time. He's the clear cut best player in the draft.
 
Tannenballs said:
Slimm, if you were an even front, where would you play Leonard? At 298 I think he can easily play the 3 technique. But he also could be a physical edge setting left end who slides inside on sub packages. No matter what he will be rushing from the 3 in nickel and dime. But I'm interested as to where you would play him in a 4-3. He's rare in that he's just as good setting the edge and stacking and shedding as he is getting up the field and rushing the passer or chasing in backside pursuit. But he can really run. I'd just play him as a 3 technique all game long, but if someone were to go down he gives you the versatility of playing LE. He might be best as a 5 technique in a 3-4. I don't care what defense you want to run or where you want to put him. I just want him on my team. Not many guys with the combination of strength, motor, and being as light on your feet as Leonard. His hand usage is outstanding vs run and pass. Not many guys know how to create extension and then disengage in the run game. He's excellent at that. He's not J.J. Watt but he's probably the closest thing there will be for a long time. He's the clear cut best player in the draft.
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The beauty of Leonard Williams is that he's so versatile, you can play him just about anywhere in any front... as you pointed out. He's probably going to play at around 300 pounds for the majority of his NFL career. I'd line him up as a 3-tech in an even front. What's phenomenal is that he's athletic enough to play DE in an even front. I'd be more inclined to line him up in a 4i if I'm using an odd front. I don't want a guy like this 2-gapping in a tradition 3-4 in an Okie type front. I want him using 1-gap principles in an Eagle type front from the 4i with the 'Sam' linebacker 2-gapping. I think it fits his talent and skillset better.
 
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Great conversation. I could see pass rusher as the 1st pick for the Dolphins. Lots of football to play in the season and hopefully Ryan Tannehill takes that next step. If not, that kind of changes everything including, most likely, the coaching staff. But assuming Tannehill takes off, corner or pass rusher should be high on the list.

Cam Wake is awesome, but he can't play forever. Olivier Vernon is a nice player, but Dion Jordan is a question mark and now Derrick Shelby is uncertain. You've got to get pressure on the quarterback. There are some really interesting prospects to watch this year and I think Miami would be smart to look for a pass rusher who could play OLB. Dupree, or someone like that, would be nice.
 
Shawn Oakman never really stood out against TCU in his first real test versus a kid who can actually play in Tayo Fabuluje. He was pretty much shutout on the way to Baylor's defense giving up 58 points in a win. Two big tests still loom when he'll go up against Tyson Thompson and Le'Raven Clark... who will be his toughest test.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Shawn Oakman never really stood out against TCU in his first real test versus a kid who can actually play in Tayo Fabuluje. He was pretty much shutout on the way to Baylor's defense giving up 58 points in a win. Two big tests still loom when he'll go up against Tyson Thompson and Le'Raven Clark... who will be his toughest test.
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He doesn't dominate the way someone should with his size and movement skills should. I think he'll be a better pro than collegiate player. I like Ray, Beasley, and Gregory more. Huge fan of Shane Ray.
 
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