stafford or tebow?

[BobDole]

That's exactly my point. So who do you guys have in he FL vs GA game? Keep in mind how powerful GA's defense is against those so-called spread offenses......BOBDOLE......Remember Hawaii? lol

come on man - where's the bet? you guys get so ****y the year after you beat us. good thing that's only about once a decade.

and you're comparing florida to hawaii? :sidelol: you might as well compare my little brother's pop warner team to the fins. not so much.

i am totally down for a friendly wager involving not real money. will be waiting for the response.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

tebow completed 67% of his passes for 3286 yards and ran for another 900.

stafford completed 56% of his passes for 2523 yards and ran for negative 18 yards.

as of right now, this question is a joke. but i saw glimpses from stafford last year so next year this might be a real question. but not yet.

How many yards and TD's did Andre Ware throw for? David Klingler? Alex Smith? Timmy Chang? Colt Brennan?

How many yards and TD's did Brett Favre throw for in college? Tom Brady? Peyton Manning? Dan Marino? Steve McNair? Troy Aikman?

If college stats were the determining factor in pro potential (which they're obviously not) Kliff Kingsbury would be a pro bowler and Donavan McNabb would be selling furniture.

Tebow is a wonderful college football player and perfect fit for Urban Meyer's system...but Stafford has the NFL qualities that GM's look for...other than coming from a pro style offense...

I do agree with you on one thing though...Is this really a question?

 

[BobDole]

How many yards and TD's did Andre Ware throw for? David Klingler? Alex Smith? Timmy Chang? Colt Brennan?

How many yards and TD's did Brett Favre throw for in college? Tom Brady? Peyton Manning? Dan Marino? Steve McNair? Troy Aikman?

If college stats were the determining factor in pro potential (which they're obviously not) Kliff Kingsbury would be a pro bowler and Donavan McNabb would be selling furniture.

Tebow is a wonderful college football player and perfect fit for Urban Meyer's system...but Stafford has the NFL qualities that GM's look for...other than coming from a pro style offense...

I do agree with you on one thing though...Is this really a question?

i hear ya. we will see. i just can't pigeonhole tebow as a 'system quarterback' because i have yet to find the flaws in his game that the typical system qb's have. what's the knock? seriously? people just keep saying spread offense, system qb, blah, blah, blah... i have yet to see an actual knock on his game that is even worth coming back with a retort. it is playeddddddd.

not saying stafford is bad. he is very good - but not yet a tim tebow. maybe someday.

gators defense won't be all freshman and sophomores next year. and the offense doesn't even need to be discussed - especially with the addition of moody. gonna get ugly in jacksonville next year.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

i hear ya. we will see. i just can't pigeonhole tebow as a 'system quarterback' because i have yet to find the flaws in his game that the typical system qb's have. what's the knock? seriously? people just keep saying spread offense, system qb, blah, blah, blah... i have yet to see an actual knock on his game that is even worth coming back with a retort. it is playeddddddd.

not saying stafford is bad. he is very good - but not yet a tim tebow. maybe someday.

gators defense won't be all freshman and sophomores next year. and the offense doesn't even need to be discussed - especially with the addition of moody. gonna get ugly in jacksonville next year.

Here's the flaw... and why it's so difficult for QB's who play in these "gimmick" systems to make the adjustment to the NFL.They're ALWAYS in the shotgun for one..they don't take any snaps from under center (which you will be required to do in the NFL 90% of the time) therefore they have poor footwork. They don't have any experience in dropping back, hitching, reading the defense, and throwing an accurate pass on target and on time. Offenses in the NFL are all about precise timing and accuracy. You cannot underestimate the importance of this, and we haven't even discussed mechanics involving delivery (which Tebow's aren't of NFL quality at the moment) we've only discussed taking the snap!!None of these previously mentioned system QB's that were busts, were busts because their arm wasn't strong enough or because they didn't have the physical tools to succeed in the NFL...in fact...their physical tools and "stats" are what got them drafted so high in the first place.The odds of a blue chip QB prospect coming from a pro style offense in college and delivering on all his promise in the NFL are already very slim...maybe 25% or so. When you factor in a blue chip prospect that comes from an offense in college that didn't teach him the intracacies that he will need to play QB in the NFL...the odds are stacked even more against him.But don't take my word for it...take NFL histories word for it instead.

 

[BobDole]

Here's the flaw... and why it's so difficult for QB's who play in these "gimmick" systems to make the adjustment to the NFL.They're ALWAYS in the shotgun for one..they don't take any snaps from under center (which you will be required to do in the NFL 90% of the time) therefore they have poor footwork. They don't have any experience in dropping back, hitching, reading the defense, and throwing an accurate pass on target and on time. Offenses in the NFL are all about precise timing and accuracy. You cannot underestimate the importance of this, and we haven't even discussed mechanics involving delivery (which Tebow's aren't of NFL quality at the moment) we've only discussed taking the snap!!None of these previously mentioned system QB's that were busts, were busts because their arm wasn't strong enough or because they didn't have the physical tools to succeed in the NFL...in fact...their physical tools and "stats" are what got them drafted so high in the first place.The odds of a blue chip QB prospect coming from a pro style offense in college and delivering on all his promise in the NFL are already very slim...maybe 25% or so. When you factor in a blue chip prospect that comes from an offense in college that didn't teach him the intracacies that he will need to play QB in the NFL...the odds are stacked even more against him.But don't take my word for it...take NFL histories word for it instead.

good post. but again, same stuff. i know with florida's qb history (you hit a parked cop car? don't even get me started dildo) and the spread offense qb history - his chances of success at the pro level are slim. historically at least. but you're not gonna tell me he doesn't have a chance because he can't take a snap. and footwork? you have seen him play, correct?

and i know why qb's from the spread system don't translate well to the nfl. while that was excellent info - from someone that knows their shyte - it was all safe and very matter of fact. the only thing you really touched on was mechanics, because his accuracy 'problems' should have been quashed after his umpteenth deep pass hit harvin (damn near the fastest player in college) in stride.

let's take it to the next level. what about tebow's mechanics don't you like?

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

good post. but again, same stuff. i know with florida's qb history (you hit a parked cop car? don't even get me started dildo) and the spread offense qb history - his chances of success at the pro level are slim. historically at least. but you're not gonna tell me he doesn't have a chance because he can't take a snap. and footwork? you have seen him play, correct?

and i know why qb's from the spread system don't translate well to the nfl. while that was excellent info - from someone that knows their shyte - it was all safe and very matter of fact. the only thing you really touched on was mechanics, because his accuracy 'problems' should have been quashed after his umpteenth deep pass hit harvin (damn near the fastest player in college) in stride.

let's take it to the next level. what about tebow's mechanics don't you like?

So if you know all this and know that QB's that come from these systems don't translate well to the NFL, you only argue against your own knowledge because you're a Gator fan?

I never said Tebow didn't have a chance, I said Stafford is the better NFL QB prospect. And yes, I see everybody play...

Your first response to my post seemed to insinuate that the outcome of the Fla/Georgia game was going to have some impact on their futures in the NFL or something...lol.

I'm neither a Gator or Bulldog fan, I'm a college football fan, I have no bias in that respect.

Hitting Harvin in stride isn't what translates to the NFL...Chris Leak could hit Harvin in stride too...and Caldwell...not hard to do when you're wide open.

Tebow has to shore up the quirk in his delivery, but college coaching isn't going to do that....they don't tinker with the prospects mechanics like they will at the NFL level because of the fear it will set the team back while he makes the adjustments.

Tebow's release is low (as most college QB's are) but he also has the same quirk that Kyle Boller had, which is he almost "pushes" the ball out of his hand, almost like a shotput, just to give you a visual, but not nearly that dramatic, of course.

These gimmick systems that have come along are exactly what has ruined QB prospects nowadays. You can't compare Tebow to past Florida QB's like Palmer, Weurffel, Grossman, etc...these were Spurrier QB's...and a totally different system..although still a system nonetheless. Very similar to Jeff Tedfords system at Cal (Boller, Rodgers, Longshore, etc.)

Tebow's best comparison is obviously Alex Smith, although Smith's throwing mechanics were much cleaner and more crisp versus Tebow's.

If Tebow was running Mark Richt's offense at Georgia, he wouldn't be completing 67% of his passes...that I can guarantee you. These systems are designed to put up these gaudy stats one QB after another, after another, after another, after....

 

[hoops]

hey bob, i see you've met my friend tedslimmjr.

 

[BobDole]

hey bob, i see you've met my friend tedslimmjr.

:err:

 

[BobDole]

So if you know all this and know that QB's that come from these systems don't translate well to the NFL, you only argue against your own knowledge because you're a Gator fan?

I never said Tebow didn't have a chance, I said Stafford is the better NFL QB prospect. And yes, I see everybody play...

Your first response to my post seemed to insinuate that the outcome of the Fla/Georgia game was going to have some impact on their futures in the NFL or something...lol.

I'm neither a Gator or Bulldog fan, I'm a college football fan, I have no bias in that respect.

Hitting Harvin in stride isn't what translates to the NFL...Chris Leak could hit Harvin in stride too...and Caldwell...not hard to do when you're wide open.

Tebow has to shore up the quirk in his delivery, but college coaching isn't going to do that....they don't tinker with the prospects mechanics like they will at the NFL level because of the fear it will set the team back while he makes the adjustments.

Tebow's release is low (as most college QB's are) but he also has the same quirk that Kyle Boller had, which is he almost "pushes" the ball out of his hand, almost like a shotput, just to give you a visual, but not nearly that dramatic, of course.

These gimmick systems that have come along are exactly what has ruined QB prospects nowadays. You can't compare Tebow to past Florida QB's like Palmer, Weurffel, Grossman, etc...these were Spurrier QB's...and a totally different system..although still a system nonetheless. Very similar to Jeff Tedfords system at Cal (Boller, Rodgers, Longshore, etc.)

Tebow's best comparison is obviously Alex Smith, although Smith's throwing mechanics were much cleaner and more crisp versus Tebow's.

If Tebow was running Mark Richt's offense at Georgia, he wouldn't be completing 67% of his passes...that I can guarantee you. These systems are designed to put up these gaudy stats one QB after another, after another, after another, after....

i have heard the 'pushing' the ball knock on tebow and that is valid. but he can throw the ball a mile - and being a sophomore - there is definitely time. his mechanincs have improved leaps and bounds in the last two years and will continue to do so until he leaves UF.

and i'm not even acting like this is for real - the better prospect at this point? okay.

the main reason i think he is getting flack is because he is coming from a spread offense and because he is a florida gator. historically, those two facts don't exactly lead to HOF numbers in the nfl. but i'm not gonna say he's screwed because of those two facts alone. i need more.

stafford does not have the leadership, confidence, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy ( yeah, i said it :D), pocket presence (said it again), or inherent ability to take over a football game that tebow has. not YET. that is why this is so ridiculous. so if i needed a qb right this second to lead my pro team onto the field, tebow would be the choice. right now. which was the question - i think. who would pick stafford over tebow right now based on 'potential'? come on. in a few years, who knows.

and i didn't mean to nor did i insinuate that the florida/georgia game this year would in any way dictate the pro careers of either qb. if you are a fan of either team and you get a question like this you just have to. it's florida/georgia man - you know?

but that was an excellent post you responded with. keep it up my friend. :up:

 

[XXXSURTAINXXX]

come on man - where's the bet? you guys get so ****y the year after you beat us. good thing that's only about once a decade.

and you're comparing florida to hawaii? :sidelol: you might as well compare my little brother's pop warner team to the fins. not so much.

i am totally down for a friendly wager involving not real money. will be waiting for the response.

Im down with a wager........but uhhh...how do we do it? Yeah we dawgs do get to smelling ourselves after a year of whooping on them gatorz. But this is a pretty good team we got this year. I truly think we can winthe national championship.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

i have heard the 'pushing' the ball knock on tebow and that is valid. but he can throw the ball a mile - and being a sophomore - there is definitely time. his mechanincs have improved leaps and bounds in the last two years and will continue to do so until he leaves UF.

and i'm not even acting like this is for real - the better prospect at this point? okay.

the main reason i think he is getting flack is because he is coming from a spread offense and because he is a florida gator. historically, those two facts don't exactly lead to HOF numbers in the nfl. but i'm not gonna say he's screwed because of those two facts alone. i need more.

stafford does not have the leadership, confidence, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy ( yeah, i said it :D), pocket presence (said it again), or inherent ability to take over a football game that tebow has. not YET. that is why this is so ridiculous. so if i needed a qb right this second to lead my pro team onto the field, tebow would be the choice. right now. which was the question - i think. who would pick stafford over tebow right now based on 'potential'? come on. in a few years, who knows.

and i didn't mean to nor did i insinuate that the florida/georgia game this year would in any way dictate the pro careers of either qb. if you are a fan of either team and you get a question like this you just have to. it's florida/georgia man - you know?

but that was an excellent post you responded with. keep it up my friend. :up:

I understand that Tebow has a strong arm...but that won't overcome poor footwork. If you can't take the snap from under center and drop back smooth and on time...you're strong arm will never be on display in the NFL...

Akili Smith, Jim Druckenmiller, etc. could throw the ball a mile too...lol.

Coming from the spread isn't so much a knock as it is a fact that it doesn't translate well to the NFL....and until one actually does...you really don't have a case to argue other than he's Tim Tebow and he can throw the ball really far...

As for Stafford...lol...he has the strongest arm in college football. He throws a "heavy" ball because his throwing motion is superior to that of Tebow which allows him to get his thick legs involved in the throw.

You don't have to be athletic to play QB in the NFL, in fact, it only works against you because you tend to rely on that instead of being a pocket technician. You win with prototype pocket passers (Stafford) in the NFL...not scramblers (Tebow). Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Drew Bledsoe, etc. are some of the worst athletes to ever play in the NFL. How'd they turn out? Michael Vick is the best athlete maybe to ever put on shoulder pads, yet he was ranked DEAD LAST in the league every year of his career in passer rating from inside the pocket...Vince Young is as athletic as any player you'll see play QB in the NFL...to the tune of 9TD's and 15 INT's and even thought about retirement after his rookie season because the NFL is a world different than running the spread and only having to read the defensive end.

Teams are starting to learn that they have somewhat of a blueprint to follow now reguarding QB prospects because of past teams mistakes.

Rule #1? Stay away from system QB's in the 1st round...your odds are better drafting a lesser hyped QB from a program that ran a pro style offense. GM's will absolutely factor in the system(s) that the quarterbacks come from....they have to now.

Do you know why the Heisman is a curse for QB's? It isn't because of some mysterious voodoo....it's because the Heisman is all about stats and hype...and you have to be in a system that is designed to produce such gaudy stats. A system that doesn't translate to the next level...

 

[hoops]

:err:

lol. i just know tedslimm from someplace else and he knows his stuff.

 

[XXXSURTAINXXX]

"You win with prototype pocket passers (Stafford) in the NFL."

Who happens to be the starting QB for THE University of Georgia Bulldogs. Stafford is the next Elway.

 

[reese13]

stafford does not have the leadership, confidence, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy ( yeah, i said it :D), pocket presence (said it again), or inherent ability to take over a football game that tebow has.

are u serious? stafford's arm strength is what made him the number 1 rated QB coming out f HS. his arm strength is why mel kiper says he will go number 1 in the draft. have u ever even seen him play? he has one f the strongest, if not the strongest, arms in the country.

 

[ZachThomas76]

Until a spread or spread option qb has success in the NFL, this isnt really a debate is it? If the roles were reversed, and Stafford was the one putting up gaudy numbers in a spread, we would have the same opinion of him as some of us do of Tebow. Did anyone watch the Combine? Colt Brennan couldnt even get the 5 and 7 step drops down in practice with Mike Martz because he had never done it before. Its hard enough to be a rookie qb in the NFL, but then to have to learn things that are complete 180's to what made you successfull in college? Recipe for disaster at this point in time................