The Great Mistake of signing Hartline: A Waste of #2 WR Money + Foolish Strategy | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Great Mistake of signing Hartline: A Waste of #2 WR Money + Foolish Strategy

Hartline and Welker are not the same player. Hartline does play a true flanker position and at the #2WR position he'd still be split wide. He hasn't been the slot guy. Welker has always been that slot guy. Welker has made his bones scorching nickelbacks and blowing apart zone coverages. He hasn't been out on the sideline beating press coverage. Hartline has, which is why he's easily worth 6.5 million bucks. Guys that can beat press coverage and get open are worth paying.
 
iamtiv said:
Hartline and Welker are not the same player. Hartline does play a true flanker position and at the #2WR position he'd still be split wide. He hasn't been the slot guy. Welker has always been that slot guy. Welker has made his bones scorching nickelbacks and blowing apart zone coverages. He hasn't been out on the sideline beating press coverage. Hartline has, which is why he's easily worth 6.5 million bucks. Guys that can beat press coverage and get open are worth paying.
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wasn't comparing the two, just the situation.
 
First of all, we don't know the details of the contract. They usually sound better -for the player- than they are. And anyway, most players that are worth anything will cost more than you'd hope at this point. You can't try to sign everyone "at the right price", like we did last year. Second, I hate the "get rid of everyone who isn't a star each year and replace them with rookies and FAs". Tannehill obviously has a rapport with Hartline, and I'm glad they're bringing him back.
 
Fins1971 said:
Very easy to compare the best performing rookie to anyone with 4 years experience. There was only one of those players in last years draft and 32 teams choose to pass on him several times.
Not a very good argument from you RG, you are usually better than that.
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K. Wright 626, 4 TD's
C. Givens 698 3 TD's

The year prior, T. Smith had 841 and 7 TD's
T. Young 607 6 TD's
D. Moore 618 5 TD's
 
dolphans1 said:
The Patriots would have signed him and he without a doubt would have become a future Hall of Famer.

d-1
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Notihng is going to make Hartline a HOF. So many cry about who the Pats might get is hysterical.

You put the best team on the field, not sign someone because the Pats might sign him. Them getting Hartline would not have made them no brainers for a dynasty...
 
Noodleman said:
So let me get this straight....your argument is that because he had 1100 yards and 74 catches against teams number 1 cbs......he will not be as good when consistently being guarded by a teams number 2 cb? Hmmmmn not sure the logic of that statement. Also, I have to assume that RT gets better on the deep ball as he missed Hartline WIDE OPEN at least 3 times that I can remember. SO the 1 td argument is bogus.
As far as his talent goes....WR is a position that usually takes a few years to develop so the fact that Hartline, in his 4th year, had a good season is not a surprise. Hartline got paid what he is worth...dude is only 26 years old. If he falls flat, he will be gone. The contract he signed is by no means going to hamstring the dolphins. If he continues to improve then Miami got a steal. Either way, they made a good signing. I don't think you need to worry if you are getting punked...you are obviously high.
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No im not basin my facts on one year like you are. He had a legit #1 WR here with marshall and what did he do? Ill tell u .... Fail to surpass 700 yards and scored 1 TD a Year!!!! Thats right 1 TD a year with a top 10 WR taking all the double coverage and leaving him 1 on 1. Thats what i base my comments on.... Fact that he cant score when he has the teams number 2 guy on him in the past 2-3 years. But hey if your fine paying a WR that much to score once a season then u are the one that is obviously high.
 
He is a 1000 yard reciever!!! By himself!!! With no Wallace or or any type of real threat.
 
Killerphinz32 said:
If this team gets a true number one receiver like wallace, and Hartline slips to the opposite side as a number 2, then he will be the best receiver for that position. You can bash me all you want, but he 1100 yards with top corners covering him. To me i see hartline as bigger, faster welker. He works hard, he has good hands and despite what you does not ted ginn the ball when he catches it. Hartline had some really good catches this year, that most people would of dropped. He is worth the contract, just like welker was worth it when the phins let him go. you can respond to my post, but just wait and see, and actually watch the games because i haven't seen anything bad that you mentioned about hartline last year.
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First i watch every game havent missed a fins game in like 13 years. Second ill tell you what i dont like about Hartline and y hes not worth the money.
1/ Cant score!!! say all you want but the guy cant get in the endzone. Is some of that the QBs fault yes. But alot of it is his fault. How many times in the past 2-3 years has the guy been tripped up by a hip tap or ankle tap with no one around him but that one defender? It happened alot this year. This guy gets tackled by a stiff breeze.1 TD come on man... There were only 3 guys in the top like 50 Wrs that had 1 TD or less and bess was one of them along with hartline and jason avant. Some teams #3 WRs scored more then him. Hell Reggie bush caught more TDs then Hartline did this year. Do u not see something wrong with that? that our RB had more TDs then our #1 WR?

2/Lack good speed. Can he get open sure but doesnt have the speed or quickness to burn a guy or juke him or of his socks and make something big out of nothing.

3/ No YAC ability!!! ties into numer 1 but the guy doesnt fight for the ball in the air, doesnt break tackles or juke people to gain extra yards, does nothing to produce big plays. The QB shouldnt have to hit him in the hands in the endzone everytime for him to score. Every other #1 or2 WR in the league seems to be able to make something happen with the ball in their hands or in the air better then him.Hartline had only 240 YAC yards and about 100 of them came in that one zona game. Out of the leagues top 34 WRs only 3 Wrs had less YAC yards then him and out of those 3, 2 of then were by 5 yards or less. All had alot more TDs then him too. Some of those guys were even a teams number 2 WRs.

4/Cant beat the press because hes not strong enough. Watch the second hal of the season and watch the Jets games and see how Cromartie owned him and would stand him up at the line with one good chest punch or jab.

There those r all reasons y i dont like him and dont think it was a good idea at all to sign him for that much. But Hey like i said hopefully you guys r man enough to come back mid way through the season and admitt you were wrong. I have done it when im wrong and i have also said i told u so, which i seem to do alot more often.
 
maralieus said:
I gotta say the hartline bashing is getting old. He was one of our best players last year yet you people bash him. You have to pay some players that you groom. IMO Hartline was great last year. I know what youre response will be already. "But only 1td". True but I dont blame as much for that, tanny overthrew a few, albeit probably cuz of hartlines speed, but hartline isnt a deep ball guy, he was just the only guy that could fool the cbs and safety. As for his YAC, that will greatly improve when we can get the damn safeties away from him. Id fall too if i knew there was always gonna be a guy waiting to drill me. Wallace and a fast te will will greatly improve hartline. Not to mention the great chemistry with tannehill, his work ethic and dedication, his leadership and intelligence. He is worth the 6.5-7 mill. So get over it.
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I'm HATE when people say Hartline was overthrown because of his lack of speed, if he's fast enough to get 2-3 steps behind the defense then he's fast enough to score TD. It's the QB's job to know the speed of his receivers and throw the ball where they can catch it. Being overthrown is usually not the WR's fault it's usually the QB's!
 
jjizzim said:
I'm HATE when people say Hartline was overthrown because of his lack of speed, if he's fast enough to get 2-3 steps behind the defense then he's fast enough to score TD. It's the QB's job to know the speed of his receivers and throw the ball where they can catch it. Being overthrown is usually not the WR's fault it's usually the QB's!
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I agree but you know what when the ball is thrown to him and hits him in the chest he should be able to make something happen. Thats my main problem with him. No play making ability. The guy cant out run CBs , cant juke them and gets tackled by guys smaller then him all the time. The QB shouldnt have to hit him the the hands in the endzone everytime for him to be able to score. He needs to be able to make a play with the ball in his hand and he doesnt. Gets tackled to easliy and too slow to outrun people down the field. Not always the QBs fault when WRs dont score. I see guys on every other team break tackles and score but him.
 
What is escaping most everyone is that obviously, with his own past point of references regarding successful receivers like Jordie, Driver and Jennings, Philbin wanted him back. If you're gonna take issue with what our HC wants and his perspective from where he sits when it comes to Hartline, you should be consistent on that also when it comes to Wallace.
 
PlexGod said:
R u serious?!?!?!? No way you r serious.... i mean really?!?!?! you think Hartline is going to have multiple 1000 yard season with 100+ catches..... hahahaha. Wow you know nothing about football. He is a terrible #1 WR and a below average #2 WR and u think he is going to be a top 10 Wr in the league. Wow now i have heard it all. This guy wont have more then like 60-65 catches again for the year and if he has another 1000 yard season its because the real #1 guy gets hurt game 1 and hartline will be the only guy out there. He didnt do it with Marshall here what makes u think it will be any different now. Wow just wow..... This cant be a real post. Am i getting punked?
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WOW, players can't get better with more experience?? Terrible Post.
 
Playmaker76 said:
Answer these questions about Hartline.

Can he beat press coverage?

Does he scare opponents to the point you have to double him which creates one on ones for other players?

Does he create mismatches in the red zone?

The clear answer is NO, NO, and NO.....Conclusion: Hartline is a mediocre talent who had inflated stats because of a monster game against Arizona where he caught two long passes because of missed defensive assignments. Contrary to popular belief he was not double teamed the last half of the year. He was simply shutdown because teams figured out he couldn't beat single man press coverage. It really is that simple. I'm not saying he's a bad football player. I'm saying he is the classic definition of a mediocre talent. The questions I posted above is what differentiates a mediocre talent from a #1 or #2 WR talent on a good offensive team.
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WOW it doesn't stop, Can he beat press coverage? I'll have to say with 74 catches, I'm positive all 74 didn't come off of Zone coverage so the answer to this question is YES!

Does he scare opponents?? Who cares, he had 74 Catches and 1084 yards, i can care less how the opponent feels about him, Soooo what the Monster Games against AZ doesn't count? Can't discount the dude's best game, thats just dumb. And you say he was shut down the second half of the season, here are his stat's seem pretty damn consistent all year to me. jeez :crazy:

3-50
9-111
1-41
12-253
4-59
0-0 - DNP
4-41
8-107
8-79
4-49
2-17
5-84
2-34
5-77
2-12
 
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