Tom Brady Question???????

[MarinePhinFan]

I'd rather take over the AFC East with a healthy Tom Brady then with Matt "I'm inconsistent" Cassel.

You realize that Cassel is putting up comparable numbers that Brady did during his 1st season, right? The Patriots team and coaches could make Ryan Leaf look great. Period.

 

[Valandui]

I couldn't care less if his career is over or not. At the end of the day, he's still a multi-millionaire who gets to bang a supermodel.

I know. On top of that, he got one pregnant, dumped her, and then started dating Giselle.

 

[djfresh47]

Not really. Brady has not been able to lead anything without a top 5 ranked defense. Brady is an average QB with above average smarts and work ethic who has played on great teams. He holds one record, a record he got when playing for possibly the greatest offense ever with possibly the greatest WR ever. And he beat the record by 1.

Brady has been voted All-Pro ONCE. And All-pro isn't the popularity contest that the Pro-Bowl is. All-Pro means that EXPERTS choose you as being the best in the league at your position.

Marino has 8
Unitas has 9
Montana has 6
Favre has 7

Now, I'm sure you're going to throw up the "3 Rings". Teams win Super Bowls, not individuals. If you think Brady is great because of rings then Dilfer, Hostetler, Johnson, Rypien and Williams are better than Marino because they have a ring and Marino does not. :err:

Hell, the Patriots shouldn't even have been in the SB last year after Brady's play in the AFC Championship Game. His defense, once again bailed him out.

And then you have his coaches. Belichick, love him or hate him he is great. Do you realize that not even Joe Montana's 49ers could ever beat a belichick coached defense? Not once. Look it up.


Did you also know that Brady and Cassel both throw the ball 0-10yrds down the field as the same %? And that % is around 60%. Brady dinks and dunks his entire career. He then gets Moss and just wings it up in the air and lets Moss out jump all the shorter DB's. Go to youtube and search "Brady's 50 TD's" It will show all of them. And a lot were garbage throws made possible by his WR's. Welker included.

I could go on and on about why I think Brady is pretty average, but just do some research before you start calling others crazy.

If Brady is average than every Qb in the NFL aside from Peyton Manning is terrible. While Peyton also is simply average. It's funny that Moss wasn't putting up the numbers in Oakland. Welker wasn't putting up the numbers with Miami. Hostleter, Dilfer, Rypien didn't do it over a prolonged period.

Brady is a 1st ballot HOF Qb who'll be thought of as one of the best ever when he retires. If he's average then Chad Pennington belongs in Arena League 2.

 

[jtoomuch]

I couldn't care less if his career is over or not. At the end of the day, he's still a multi-millionaire who gets to bang a supermodel.

VERY good point.

 

[Tailgater]

Not really. Brady has not been able to lead anything without a top 5 ranked defense. Brady is an average QB with above average smarts and work ethic who has played on great teams. He holds one record, a record he got when playing for possibly the greatest offense ever with possibly the greatest WR ever. And he beat the record by 1.

Brady has been voted All-Pro ONCE. And All-pro isn't the popularity contest that the Pro-Bowl is. All-Pro means that EXPERTS choose you as being the best in the league at your position.

Marino has 8
Unitas has 9
Montana has 6
Favre has 7

Now, I'm sure you're going to throw up the "3 Rings". Teams win Super Bowls, not individuals. If you think Brady is great because of rings then Dilfer, Hostetler, Johnson, Rypien and Williams are better than Marino because they have a ring and Marino does not. :err:

Hell, the Patriots shouldn't even have been in the SB last year after Brady's play in the AFC Championship Game. His defense, once again bailed him out.

And then you have his coaches. Belichick, love him or hate him he is great. Do you realize that not even Joe Montana's 49ers could ever beat a belichick coached defense? Not once. Look it up.


Did you also know that Brady and Cassel both throw the ball 0-10yrds down the field as the same %? And that % is around 60%. Brady dinks and dunks his entire career. He then gets Moss and just wings it up in the air and lets Moss out jump all the shorter DB's. Go to youtube and search "Brady's 50 TD's" It will show all of them. And a lot were garbage throws made possible by his WR's. Welker included.

I could go on and on about why I think Brady is pretty average, but just do some research before you start calling others crazy.

Using your logic, you should leave Montana out of the picture too. Talk about a guy who lived for short passes! He had a huge advantage in being at the forefront of a revolutionary offensive scheme (WCO) that nobody could defend against, coached by one of the offensive greats (Walsh), and having the best wr of all time.

The 'EXPERTS" all say Brady is one of the best, if not the best, of all time. I guess those experts are different from you're experts? Who is it who picks all-pros? isn't it the players? The same players that Brady bested, year after year? I'm sure personal feelings don't come into it. Like the Steelers would put aside the whoopings they've suffered in Bradys tenure? Yeah, right.

FYI, the Pats defense was far from top five in 2001, 2007. Last year he beat mannings record (achieved with Wayne, Harrision, James on his team). I guess manning shouldn't get credit for that? In your mind, Brady doesn't. In '01, Brady had Brown, Patten and freakin Wiggins at TE, yet still did enough to win a championship.

Farve, marino, Montana - all say Brady is one of the best all time. I'll take their word over any 'expert'.

 

[SpaceMountain16]

If Brady is average than every Qb in the NFL aside from Peyton Manning is terrible. While Peyton also is simply average. It's funny that Moss wasn't putting up the numbers in Oakland. Welker wasn't putting up the numbers with Miami. Hostleter, Dilfer, Rypien didn't do it over a prolonged period.

Brady is a 1st ballot HOF Qb who'll be thought of as one of the best ever when he retires. If he's average then Chad Pennington belongs in Arena League 2.

100% agree

 

[MarinePhinFan]

If Brady is average than every Qb in the NFL aside from Peyton Manning is terrible. While Peyton also is simply average. It's funny that Moss wasn't putting up the numbers in Oakland. Welker wasn't putting up the numbers with Miami. Hostleter, Dilfer, Rypien didn't do it over a prolonged period.

Brady is a 1st ballot HOF Qb who'll be thought of as one of the best ever when he retires. If he's average then Chad Pennington belongs in Arena League 2.

I post objective stats and you post subjective drivel. Moss, with Culpepper I might add, has put up gawdy numbers his entire career except when he quit in Oakland. Culpepper has done nothing since. So was it Moss making Culpepper look like an All-Pro or Culpepper making Moss look like an All-Pro?

Griese, Bradshaw, Namath and Aikmen are all HOF QB's. None are great and Namath was just plain horrible.

Once more, Brady has played for some of the greatest teams in NFL history and one of the greatest Dynasties. And like Bradshaw, Griese and Aikmen were in their time, he is called "great" by the media. When he retires, without doing anything else from here on out I might add, he will be remembered by non-Patriot fans as a pretty good QB who played on great teams just like those other QB's I have mentioned. Not the GOAT or even close to it...

 

[MarinePhinFan]

Using your logic, you should leave Montana out of the picture too. Talk about a guy who lived for short passes! He had a huge advantage in being at the forefront of a revolutionary offensive scheme (WCO) that nobody could defend against, coached by one of the offensive greats (Walsh), and having the best wr of all time.

The 'EXPERTS" all say Brady is one of the best, if not the best, of all time. I guess those experts are different from you're experts? Who is it who picks all-pros? isn't it the players? The same players that Brady bested, year after year? I'm sure personal feelings don't come into it. Like the Steelers would put aside the whoopings they've suffered in Bradys tenure? Yeah, right.

FYI, the Pats defense was far from top five in 2001, 2007. Last year he beat mannings record (achieved with Wayne, Harrision, James on his team). I guess manning shouldn't get credit for that? In your mind, Brady doesn't. In '01, Brady had Brown, Patten and freakin Wiggins at TE, yet still did enough to win a championship.

Farve, marino, Montana - all say Brady is one of the best all time. I'll take their word over any 'expert'.

The Patriots defense was ranked 5th in 2001 and 4th in 2007. All of the Patriots Super Bowl wins came at the hand of defenses ranked 5th, 1st and 2nd in points scored. Jeez, you'd think you would know about your own team if you're going to talk about them on a Dolphins forum. :rolleyes2:


Not really. Montana could make ALL the throws that Brady can't. Brady is smart and the Montana comparison's end there. Of course Brady has made some great throws, but the true greats make those throws consistently.

The players do not vote for All-Pro's. Football experts do. And those unbiased experts have only picked Brady once, after he got Moss as a WR.

Brady has three rings because of a great defense and a great kicker.

When Brady doesn't have a top 5 defense he doesn't win. Hell, when his defense failed him last season he couldn't win the Super Bowl with possibly the greatest offense ever. However, his defense bailed him out of a 3 INT and 60 QBR in the AFC Championship game.

There have been two QB's who have won a Super Bowl without a top 15 defense, Johnny U. and P. Manning. Two of the greatest to ever play the game.

McMahon and Dilfer, poor QB's, won Super Bowls too with two of the best defenses to ever play. Just like Brady.

 

[djfresh47]

I post objective stats and you post subjective drivel. Moss, with Culpepper I might add, has put up gawdy numbers his entire career except when he quit in Oakland. Culpepper has done nothing since. So was it Moss making Culpepper look like an All-Pro or Culpepper making Moss look like an All-Pro?

Griese, Bradshaw, Namath and Aikmen are all HOF QB's. None are great and Namath was just plain horrible.

Once more, Brady has played for some of the greatest teams in NFL history and one of the greatest Dynasties. And like Bradshaw, Griese and Aikmen were in their time, he is called "great" by the media. When he retires, without doing anything else from here on out I might add, he will be remembered by non-Patriot fans as a pretty good QB who played on great teams just like those other QB's I have mentioned. Not the GOAT or even close to it...

Actually I think most would acknowledge that Brady is one of the best ever.

 

[MarinePhinFan]

Actually I think most would acknowledge that Brady is one of the best ever.

Back in the 1970's Bradshaw and Griese were thought to be "great". Were they? No. Tough? Yes. Smart? Griese was. Average? Yep.

In the 1990's Aikman was called "great" and some even said maybe the GOAT. Now what do those people say? They say he is average and played on some great teams.

The hype will die down about Brady just like it has with these others in a few years. The way it did with Warner being called "Marino-like" and "great".

Graham, Unitas, Marino, Elway, Favre, Montana, Starr, Baugh and a few others are timeless and will always be called all-time greats. Brady won't...

 

[djfresh47]

Back in the 1970's Bradshaw and Griese were thought to be "great". Were they? No. Tough? Yes. Smart? Griese was. Average? Yep.

In the 1990's Aikman was called "great" and some even said maybe the GOAT. Now what do those people say? They say he is average and played on some great teams.

The hype will die down about Brady just like it has with these others in a few years. The way it did with Warner being called "Marino-like" and "great".

Graham, Unitas, Marino, Elway, Favre, Montana, Starr, Baugh and a few others are timeless and will always be called all-time greats. Brady won't...

Agree to disagree. Aikman is considered great. Otherwise he wouldn't be in the HOF. Who are these people who say he is average? Brady and Manning IMO took the so called "torch," from the era of Marino/Young/Elway/Aikman/Kelly. Brady benefitted from having a great team around him. So did every other championship team. If you don't believe he's great that's fine. Though I think history will show him as one of the best ever. Though we'll see.

 

[Zandimd]

i love the rivalry when he plays

 

[MarinePhinFan]

Agree to disagree. Aikman is considered great. Otherwise he wouldn't be in the HOF. Who are these people who say he is average? Brady and Manning IMO took the so called "torch," from the era of Marino/Young/Elway/Aikman/Kelly. Brady benefitted from having a great team around him. So did every other championship team. If you don't believe he's great that's fine. Though I think history will show him as one of the best ever. Though we'll see.

Aikman is considered great by Cowboys fans an maybe a few others.

You can't go by the HOF either. Joe Namath, who SUCKED as playing QB is in the HOF.

And yes, time will tell and if Brady plays another 9 seasons he may have more than one NFL record. Well, other than his 18 and NOOOOOOOOOOOOO season.

 

[Tailgater]

You realize that Cassel is putting up comparable numbers that Brady did during his 1st season, right? The Patriots team and coaches could make Ryan Leaf look great. Period.

So I guess you think Cassel would have put up similar numbers with the pats 2001 squad as he would with this years? I think he's good, but he's no Brady.

He's putting up decent numbers while Brady put up historic numbers with the same group. He's leading the team to a winning season, while Brady led them to an undefeated season (against a much tougher schedule).

If he had been the qb in 2001, I'd be surprised if the Pats had a winning record, never mind make the playoffs or win the sb. The OL was a bunch of jags, as was the rbs, wrs, & te's.

Think Cassel could have gotten the team to the affcg with Reche "bugeyes" Caldwell as the #1 wr & Gaffney as the #2? You've got a screw loose if you do.

 

[djfresh47]

So I guess you think Cassel would have put up similar numbers with the pats 2001 squad as he would with this years? I think he's good, but he's no Brady.

He's putting up decent numbers while Brady put up historic numbers with the same group. He's leading the team to a winning season, while Brady led them to an undefeated season (against a much tougher schedule).

If he had been the qb in 2001, I'd be surprised if the Pats had a winning record, never mind make the playoffs or win the sb. The OL was a bunch of jags, as was the rbs, wrs, & te's.

Think Cassel could have gotten the team to the affcg with Reche "bugeyes" Caldwell as the #1 wr & Gaffney as the #2? You've got a screw loose if you do.

Every player on every other team especially a rivalry team is terrible. Chad Pennington was a noodle arm bum who nobody wanted til speculation was he was going to be the Dolphins Qb.

I've never heard an "expert," say that Brady isn't great. People got fed up with hearing about him 24/7 during last season. Also alot of people didn't like the way the Pats went about it last year. If people can still believe the world is flat. People can still believe Brady isn't great.

Cassel has played well this year. If the Pats didn't already have Brady then he'd be a viable option going forward. Though if you already got a Benz why would you trade it in for a Oldsmobile?