Turner played OT in college, must be G in NFL

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Perfect72, May 14, 2014.

  1. Perfect72

    Perfect72 It's Only Happened ONCE!

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    Interesting read on Billy Turner and the Dolphins coaching staff:

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...er-played-ot-in-college-must-be-g-in-nfl.html

    One of the problems the Dolphins have had with player development the past few years is they don't always have a clear vision about their talent.
    Just prior to this draft, the Dolphins weren't sure if they were going to use 2013 draft pick Dallas Thomas as a guard or a tackle. So a year after picking him, having him in training camp and, indeed, getting him started in this year's offseason program, last year's third-round pick didn't know his position. (He should be a guard, folks).

    Thoughts...? :err:


    Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...n-college-must-be-g-in-nfl.html#storylink=cpy
     
  2. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    thoughts are he said nothing in the entire article lol we all know he was taken as a guard and the rest is just really old "news"
     
  3. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    It would seem strange to have Turner compete with James for the other starting OT from Albert. I would think the Dolphins are smart enough to stick Jame at the RT spot from day 1 and leaving him there. While Turner competes with everyone else for one of the other Guard spots.

    Ideally, today we should absolutely know who the starting 3 are for both Tackle position and the one Center position. The only uncertainty should be at the Guard spots.

    Pretty simple really...
     
  4. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Turner is a guard clearly. We have a new GM he had a vision. You dont take a tackle right after you took a tackle.
     
  5. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    my *** turner's a guard only...they will cross train that kid i'm sure and they should to at least know what they have tackle options wise if james or albert were to go down...

    the cross training dallas thomas being the reason for his issues talk is nonsense...he just sucked no matter where they tried him...billy turner is way more talented and gifted than dallas thomas was

    misi at mike i mean it can't be much worse than ellerbe was there but it's a heavy read and dx spot and well i don't think that's what misis about
     
  6. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    Really...this kid will eventually be Albert replacement....when that happens depends on Albert Reliability

    He will play guard at first because you want to get your 5 best guys on the field, but he has Tackle written all over him
     
  7. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Man, that would be amazing. Not having to use yet another high pick on the line because we actually developed talent? Yes, please.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    I'm scared of him at tackle, after watching those Senior Bowl practices. Turner was a disaster. He relied too much on athletic ability instead of sound technique. When suddenly he couldn't overwhelm the guy across from him with sheer talent, he was a mess. Turner turned sideways, lost his width, and started chasing, very similar to Dallas Thomas last preseason. I'd definitely protect him at guard.

    IMO, Turner will be the opposite of James, early in their careers and probably for the duration. James is steady but unspectacular. Turner will be known for big blocks and big mistakes.
     
  9. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    Better line coach....the kid oozes talent and has a rather large chip on his shoulder....He's a very good move athlete, can pass block well....could end up as good as the first round tackles taken...

    I don't love every pick Hickey made, but he went in with a plan to not only address immediate needs (the line) but also make moves for the future (Landry/Turner)
     
  10. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    Why not, he took a WR right after he took a WR, which just happens to be the deepest position on the team. :idk:
     
  11. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Deepest in mediocrity.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Pat-London

    Pat-London A True Fan

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    Agree with Hoops on this one.

    My view is - Turner is likely being groomed at some stage to take over at tackle so start him out at Guard to help his development.

    The reason why the cross training of Thomas - he didn't do well where they originally started him oiut so kept moving him around - it's the smart play at least.

    Misi - I actually would like to see him at MIKE and get Wheeler back to SAM where he had his success at Oakland and I think Ellerbe is better suited to WILL. Heck - give it a few games while Tripp is getting up to speed and if it doesn't work out with Misi then give Tripp a shot
     
  13. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    You can always do better. We are very deep now
     
  14. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    when i think of the houston texans offense and oline with benton there billy turner is tailor made to play right tackle in it...if benton can coach that up and work on his technique primarily that kids as gifted a foot athlete and move athlete as any tackle playing the right side in football...he just needs to trust his feet more...he athletically will overwhelm interior players with his foot speed and lateral abilities at guard but he probably will take some time to get used to that power and strength he will see...still in a zone if he is gonna play guard it's the ideal scheme

    i don't though see left tackle nfl pro in his future...right tackle and guard...long term i see right tackle...either way we upgraded the foot athletes with these top 2 picks something serious...james movements are well lumbering frankly but he has good short area foot quickness in pass pro and short area lateral agility...the unit needed players that can overcome angles turner can...

    as for tripp the one thing i am noticing more and more is he's a lb that likes to come forward and attack the los and the ball...it gets him in trouble sometimes too as he's overaggressive and will come too hot it may just be something that needs work or it may be a part of what he is as a player...alos there's some coverage concerns awareness that i see...much more comfortable when asked to go forward...if you are gonna play every down in our scheme as a starter you have to be able to do more than a soft zone drop...must carry coverage etc...doesnt look all that natural in that regard...

    i would say james would project more left tackle down the road given how soft his game is in the run game and how he's a fall off blocker in that regard but you don't find that many average move athletes playing a high end nfl left tackle as far as an all around game and i have some reservations about how he will fare in the pros when he faces much better athletes on a weekly basis...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2014
  15. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    I couldn't find anyone who called his Senior Bowl practices a disaster. In fact, most of the reports I read said he did very well other than a Thursday practice where a few speed rushers blew by him, but he bounced back the next day. You are probably exaggerating by calling it a "disaster".
     
  16. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Pat, for now I'm just hopoing that Turner and/ot another or two work out at OG, as well as James at RT. As of now, I would have to say that Cog and Jerry are better than what we have for this year, and not sure that James can be average, as Clabo was for the year, although all are better fits. I can see it more in 2015, unless Benton can pull a rabbit out ofhis hat.
     
  17. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yup, exactly what I thought as well.

    I am not an expert on OL play, not even close, but many opinions I've read from those who are believe that he has the potential to be a starting NFL tackle as he develops.
     
  18. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    I do agree that this coaching staff has to do a better job coming up with a vision for each player than they did last year. This obviously isn't something the GM has much say in, this is an issue that the coaching staff has to fix.

    The part I don't agree with is that Turner should be a guard. When you watch tape on him, he completely dominates DEs, not with his power but by being so quick with his slide that he beats them to the spot EASILY. He is very quick on his feet, I mean VERY quick. Quicker than any of the tackles drafted this year. He bullies players at that level who are not his equal, but what sets him apart is his quick feet. That to me does not equal guard. To me trying to force him into the guard position is wasting his God given talent. He could be an above average LT if he gets stronger and more experienced. Trying to confuse him by forcing him into something he's not is kinda the point of the article. I just disagree on what he will be best at.

    If Hickey was drafting BPA then Turner has to stick as a Tackle. There is very little chance that Albert will make it through the whole season without injury, he only has done so once, and Fox is even more injury prone. Let Turner be what he can be great at, let him develope and maybe by the time we need him he will be ready. Moving him to guard would be a mistake, and I have yet to hear them say that is what they planned.

    It's true we need guards but don't ruin this talent by making him play out of position.
     
  19. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    There is no one we added or have, other than Albert and Pouncey, who has proven themselves vs NFL talent.
     
  20. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    James played against NFL caliber players every weak in the SEC...

    Smith has been in the NFL for several years and was an excellent run blocker agaisnt NFL talent...

    Finally rookies start every year in the NFL and have success....it is how teams can compete with cheaper, yet very talents players...
     
  21. TruePoizon

    TruePoizon Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Turner was drafted to push James. James was a 4 year starter at RT, he clearly knows how to play. BUT, because our OL is a disaster...we need to make sure James doesn't slow it down, he needs to EARN that RT spot. So, drafting Turner worries James a little bit (it shouldn't), but it will push James to be an even better RT. Just because James was chosen before Turner, it doesn't mean Turner cant beat him for the spot. Now once James gets the RT spot, he has to keep it. I do believe also that Turner was chosen as insurance for Albert too, in case he gets injured. Turner was a GREAT pick, IMO.
     
  22. Pat-London

    Pat-London A True Fan

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    Interesting point and I think we've posted on this before - my question is this - all well and good zone blocking in the run game dealing with the power/strength of the inside on DL's - however - what about in pass pro.

    I'd mentioned before that we must be able to match up against the interior of the Jets/Bills DL - the question that I'm not able to answer right now about Turner at Guard [and I want him at LG] is can he anchor enough against big strong DT's. At Tackle he can dominate because of the movement talent he has, however - can he translate his own strength to an interior OL.

    I'm hopeful, but that's really the only question I have at the moment until I see him on tape at Guard.
     
  23. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    You are probably right, the other poster probably did stretch how bad his performance was, however there was no doubt that the difference between the level of talent he was used to playing vs the level at the senior bowl had some effect on him. He is definitely a project ESPECIALLY if they are going to ask him to play a totally different position. His quickness reminded me of D'Brickashaw Ferguson when he was at VA. But he has a ways to go to get down all the technique. He got away with just being a better athelete in college he will have a lot to learn to be a starter in the NFL.
     
  24. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth inside my DNA Finheaven VIP

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    He has good strength....I think he did 27 reps at the combine (only 25 counted)...though I think he needs to work on his anchor....fortunately he's going to be working against Odrick and Starks in practice which should be a good test.
     
  25. RkyDaMan34

    RkyDaMan34 Well-Known Member

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    Gabe Jackson would of been ideal but Tuner will be fine if they plant him next to James..
     
  26. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    I see no way that happens his rookie year. Not at the guard position. Those guys are masters at gaining and playing with leverage, and they are some of the best in the league at it. No way he comes in year one and switches to guard and plays well vs bull rushes, and one gap interior DLs. I just can't see how he is a starter in the interior this year. He would have to get MUCH stronger and learn to play with MUCH lower pad levels. I just can't see it happening in one year. But that is just my opinion. I also said Jonathan Martin wouldn't be able to start any games his rookie year and he did, but it wasn't pretty.
     
  27. Pat-London

    Pat-London A True Fan

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    SB2 - agree to a point. Where this OL 'should' be better is in the run game. And if Lazor makes a commitment to the Run game and it is improved over last year, by default it will be better in the pass game due to defensive adjustments.

    Right now, if I went with Albert/Turner/Pouncey/Smith/James - the movement level of this Group of 5 is a lot more on a par with each other than last year.

    The issue - I believe - we had with last year's OL was such an imbalance of athletic ability which therefore drove an inability to work together in the Zone Scheme which is critical. I really do believe the group I listed above has a closer movement skill set therefore timing, cohesiveness etc. should be so much better... and I think you're the other one who thinks Daniel Thomas still has value [correct me if I'm wrong] and therefore he should be more successful behind a better move line.
     
  28. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    that's exactly what should concern you about turner at guard...can he anchor against massive strength inside and guys that get up under his pad level...and i don't know the answer on that playing against his level of comp every week and playing against nfl starters is a totally different ball game...i will say this though it cant be any worse than watching sam brenner last year take the worst of contact even with lbs but it's a better athlete with more ideal size and he shows more physical strength than dallas thomas ever did last year with a much better body and better feet and lateral quickness...

    he's got a lot working for him if bentons legit he will get the most out of him...ideally we get a week 1 line with albert, turner, pouncey, smith and james and have upgraded the pop on contact in the interior with shelley and the athlete next to pouncey in turner...of course betting on rookie picks as day 1 plug and play no issues guys is pretty dumb stuff...and when has ideal ever worked for us ha ha

    i see miamis draft as pretty easy to figure out...plug and play was the primary need that's james for his pass pro prowess they had a top 50 at least guy on their board staring them hell they may have had a 1st round grade one in jarvis landry fall in their lap they couldn't pass it up when it did after 2 trades out and they jumped on the upside and benton banging the table for the highest upside player in our class in turner as soon as someone would take the bait to trade up with a 4th round pick on the table...

    plug and play need
    bpa board
    future promise and potential

    your first 2 days of the nfl draft
     
  29. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    The SEC, for as good as it is, is not the NFL. Smiith was great in 25% of the teams snaps last year on the run but, in the year before was just a little above average with the same snaps, and has really struggled in pass protect both years.

    Rookies do start every year on the OL, and most strugge for a year, and some, even top picks, do the same for years to come. NOT saying I don't like the picks, just that we need to see them on the field before deciding how good they actually are.
     
  30. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Banned Hammered

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    I honestly would rather see Turner at T and JuWuany Football at G.

    Turner moves really well which will allow him to pull nicely at G but Im not sure how strong he'll be run blocking in the NFL. JuWuany is much more stout and may have problems with speed rush. Turner can get stronger while already nimble and JuWuany can work on footwork while he contributes with his strength. I might be crazy but i believe this way will make for an easier transition.
     
  31. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I have no idea who has value among Dallas, Brenner, Smith, Turner, Fox, or James until I see them play. I include Dallas because of the injury, and Philbin saying we messed up in not putting him at one position.

    I completely agree on players fitting the scheme are better than thant individual talent on the OL but, not yet sure we have the right talent level to make it work We shall see..
     
  32. ONole1

    ONole1 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    He struggled with speed rushers when lined up at tackle and even admitted he was a little taken back by the speed. When they moved him inside he did well. I think he could start inside, but will need some adjustment to the speed on the outside but who knows how long that adjustment time could be.
     
  33. LDaniel7

    LDaniel7 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    So true. People talk about his shoulder injury but his movement period was horrid. No ceiling. Horrible pick. The best he can hope for is a backup guard spot in the NFL -- a backup that will never push a good starter. In other words, the kind of player Ireland majored on. And started. Sad.

    LD
     
  34. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    I actually like this better than trying to make Turner into an NFL OG. Just don't see guard when I watch Turner, and if that is where they stick him he won't be starting THIS year.
     
  35. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    This thread has some really good stuff. Don't stop talking about the X's and O's! I really wish the NFL network did more teaching type stuff of the game for just us regular fans...
     
  36. KTOWNFINFAN

    KTOWNFINFAN Seasoned Veteran

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    One of the things that kills me about being a dolphin fan is watching us pour resources into players then right before they become good players we get rid of them only for them to catch on some where else. I really think Dallas Thomas will be one of those players. You speak of his movement, did you know he ran a 4.96 40, a better 3 cone than James, and held Clowney to no sacks and no pressures in their meeting?? Last year he was not the player he was when he was healthy. Maybe he ends up being a complete bust but he was a very good very versatile player in college. Let's give him at least one more year before we throw him under the bus. I expect him to be one of the biggest surprises this camp.
     
  37. SWS84

    SWS84 A True Fan

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    What I would like to see our OL coach do is quickly ID the starters and have them play just about every snap leading up to the season. Keith Sims was saying on Finsiders that they did that with Richmond Webb and him the year they were drafted and it helped a ton by the time the season started. As with everybody, they were a work in progress, but at least they were able to hold down the fort while they learned and got stronger.
     
  38. EireTiger

    EireTiger Starter

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    Where did you see that Dallas Thomas ran a 4.96 40 yard dash and had a better 3 cone than J'Wuan James? He did not participate in the combine last year and did not run at Tennessee's pro. I'm curious where you've seen any measurables on the guy.
     
  39. LDaniel7

    LDaniel7 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    If he ends up being more than a backup, I'll be surprised. Pleasantly, but surprised. I was furious w. the level of play he exhibited -- course, I didn't have far to go -- Ireland set me off big time, starting off the off-season by throwing money at Hartline (as if that was going to somehow make him a great WR) and it just kept going in the draft. Man, oh man. 11 picks and zero three down players? A top 3 pick that is gonna be a 3 year developer until he can be a 3 down player? Putting Jonathan Martin at LT and pretending it's great -- plus crap, crap and more crap at depth? Are you kidding me?

    I may have been very prejudiced against Thomas because of all this. Hope he steps up and becomes a decent backup.

    LD
     
  40. PhinsTD

    PhinsTD Phins fanatic

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    This is correct. However, NFLDraftScout lists his low 40 time as a 4.96. Not sure where they got it from.

    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84643&draftyear=2013&genpos=OT
     

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